Shield enchanting - Defensive vs Offensive


Rules Questions


Hey all,

Looking at making my first character for PFS and I wanted to ask: what is PFS ruling on shields and how the enchantments work?

It's been gone over and over in the rules thread but I couldn't see a definite answer.

What I'm asking is about defensive enchanting vs. offensive enchanting.

With the non stacking of spikes and the bashing enchantment, it makes it really hard to want to do spikes (being only a one size damage increase instead of two) BUUUT if you can't stick offensive enchants on the shield without the spikes, then the spikes are needed. And as I'm planning on a dwarven foehammer, who uses a warhammer main, I'd like the spikes for a different damage type.

So is this as some has said you can enchant the shield defensively and the spikes offensively? Or it a one or the other type deal i.e. a non spiked shield gets defensive, a spiked shield gets offensive?

Thanks!

Sczarni

The shield is what you're enchanting. Not the spikes.

So you'd just purchase a MWK Shield (+150gp), enchant it defensively +1 (+1000gp), enchant it offensively +1 (+2000gp), and continue from there.

It's not handled like a double weapon, but it's very similar.

PFS doesn't have any specific rules on this, so I'll flag it for the Rules Questions forum.


PFS has no campaign-specific house rules on shield bashing, and follows the regular rules.

You can always do a shield bash even with a mundane shield.

Shields can be made into magic weapons. Even without spikes or the Bashing enchantment. This is explicit in the item descriptions. You treat the shield as two separate magic items for figuring out what you can put on it and the costs.

You can put a +1 defensive enchantment on it and then any shield enchantments, subject to the normal armor enchantment rules.

You ALSO add a +1 offensive enchantment just like any other weapon, and then add any other weapon enchantments normally allowed to a weapon or it's size and type.

Bashing merely allows you to treat the shield as a +1 weapon and increases the shield's effective size by two steps when performing a shield bash. Whether or not you have to also add a "real" +1 offensive enchantment to put more weapon enchants on is unclear.

Shield Spikes increase the effective Shield Bash damage by one size step, and makes all damage into piercing. That's all. Spikes are NOT, repeat, NOT a separate weapon in their own right, unlike armor spikes.

Stacking or non-stacking of shield spikes and Bashing has never been firmly established. James Jacobs at one point said he doesn't think they should stack, but that is not a hard ruling. Expect table variation on that. At the very least, you could throw on spikes and if the GM at your table rules they don't stack, well, it's not like you spent much on the spikes.

If you have the Shield Master feat, you can substitute the shield's defensive enchantment bonus for the shield's offensive enchantment bonus when attacking.

Brawlers, especially Shield Champions, have additional abilities relating to attacking with shields.

(If you play one, be prepared to explain why you character was able to flatten the bad guy with a half dozen 8d8+20 shield bash flurry attacks. I keep the rules breakdown on a handy index card for easy reference.)

:)

-j

Grand Lodge

Also, YMMV with cost as to masterworking a shield for defense/offense, but as you've alluded to those threads, I expect you have an idea of this being the case. After that point it works like normal (as Nefreet said).


Jason Wu wrote:
Stacking or non-stacking of shield spikes and Bashing has never been firmly established.

It has now.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

A masterwork shield is masterwork, but provides no offensive to hit bonus.

All spikes on a shield do is modify the shield. For instance, if you put mithral spikes on an adamantine shield, guess what? You only punch DR/Adamantine. The fact the spikes are made of mithral is technically irrelevant, since they don't modify the material of the shield.

Otherwise, as above.

==Aelryith

Sczarni

Jason Wu wrote:
Stacking or non-stacking of shield spikes and Bashing has never been firmly established. James Jacobs at one point said he doesn't think they should stack, but that is not a hard ruling. Expect table variation on that.

Well, there shouldn't be table variation, but unfortunately it seems like there will be =\

Grand Lodge

Also, if you are going for a shield champion brawler, be aware that RAW (at least in comparison to this FAQ) aren't automatically proficient with a shield bash attacks (though the base brawler is, but aren't proficient in wearing shields for AC).


PolydactylPolymath wrote:
Jason Wu wrote:
Stacking or non-stacking of shield spikes and Bashing has never been firmly established.
It has now.

Okay then. Updated yesterday. There ya go.

Still useful if you want for whatever reason to make the shield bash into piercing damage, though. Possibly for Swashbuckler shenanigans.

-j


Thanks all.

So am I topped out at +10 total enchantment mixing offensive and defensive? Or do I get +10 of each?

If so, if I stuck on bashing would that count towards the defensive +10 since its on the shield enchant list?

Lastly, if I stick on both bashing and spikes can I use the two size increase from bashing with the piercing damage from the spikes?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

+10 of each.

Bashing is a defensive enhancement.

Yes, you'd get 2 size increase and it would be doing piercing damage.

As a note, the revised Uber Shield:

Adamantine Large Shield of Bashing +5, +5 Allying Defender.

Dmg: 1-8
Shield Mastery means you use Defense enhancement for at/dmg, meaning you can devote offensive enhancement to either additional defense OR you can give the bonus away to your main weapon.

+6/+7 for cost, so 36k + 98k = 134k.

+7 Shield AC all the time,+5 Defender AC optional.

If you want to keep the price down, no Allying would be 108k.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Since the shield does not have the double weapon quality. The total value of the shield's offensive and defensive enchantments needs to be under your fame cap.


Awesome. Thanks. Lots of effort\money for a secondary weapon lol.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

The Weapon side is unnecessary for a Shield Master, in which case its the cheapest off hand weapon you can acquire.

The Weapon side is just for extra zing.

==Aelryinth

Silver Crusade

Aelryinth wrote:

The Weapon side is unnecessary for a Shield Master, in which case its the cheapest off hand weapon you can acquire.

The Weapon side is just for extra zing.

==Aelryinth

Yeah, the Shield Master feat is very important in the decision making.


DesolateHarmony wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

The Weapon side is unnecessary for a Shield Master, in which case its the cheapest off hand weapon you can acquire.

The Weapon side is just for extra zing.

==Aelryinth

Yeah, the Shield Master feat is very important in the decision making.

It is if you're a sword n' board ranger.. (which in pfs i would strongly consider for every sword and board martial, because they get that at level 6)

Shadow Lodge

Or a slayer!


Shield master comes online very late for me. I'm going 9 foehammer levels and then barbarian the rest of the way so I can't get it till level 11. So waiting for it doesn't make sense in my case


Generally the best defense with a barbarian is killing them with a big honking weapon so they can't hit you back


I know its more focusing on the foehammer levels. I just love the foehammer archetype and it's bull rush\free trip ability. Which I will abuse with off hand shield bashing :)

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Foehammer is a truly mighty archetype.


If you can meet the Dex requirement, look at Break Guard. With the Foehammer's 7th level ability you can disarm with your hammer, then bash with your shield, bull rush with Shield Slam, and finally, trip at the end of the bull rush.


I can't tell you how bad i wish there was a pathfinder battlerager!

Dark Archive

Battlerager from D&D 3.5? The PrC that was banned from Living Grayhawk and most home games because in rage you have to attack the nearest thing, whether it be friend or foe.

Yah, there is a reason that it didn't cross over ...

FLAGGED!


Yeah i want a less self destructive version i guess :)

Shadow Lodge

Frenzied Berserker? There's the Wild Rager, but it's been banned for many a year.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Battlerager is the drunken dwarven berserker stereotype that was in the Drizzt books. Rude, crude, loud, unwashed, etc.

FB is the one where in Frenzy you attack everyone close by...said solution being to go off by yourself and burn all your Frenzies for the day so that couldn't happen.

==Aelryinth

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Shield enchanting - Defensive vs Offensive All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.