In my opinion Reincarnation type effects should also roll to change characters gender and age. Reincarnating everyone into a young adult doesn't make much sense (imagine casting Reincarnation on a still-born :/ ).
In addition, the caster should be able to choose subjects new race, age and gender in exchange for ability burn. A effect modified this way should be able to also raise creature that has died from old age (to stop druids from committing suicide all the time :P ).
Another possible option could be reassigning ability scores and choosing a new class.
Maybe roll randomly to see if your alignment changes like the Nameless One. And while we're at it, why not a whole new name, too? Your human paladin can't keep calling himself Steve when he reincarnates as a chaotic evil female kobold.
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And while we're at it, randomly assign a new backstory and personality as well.
You know...just like making a brand new character.
The exact opposite thing the spell is meant to do.
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Yeah, this thread started with a great premise, but quickly went, uh... "unplayable".
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More on the topic of what the OP wrote, if you want to CHANGE Reincarnate (not "fix" it, as that implies it doesn't work as intended...which it does), I'd say:
1.) Something like a 90% chance of keeping the same gender.
2.) A change in age is unnecessary, except maybe to randomly roll on the age table for each race within the young adult category. Aging has actual mechanical effects, which you want to reduce as much as possible with a spell like this. Reincarnate is already potentially detrimental (your Str based Human Fighter Reincarnating as a Kobold and getting an effective -6 to Str), adding extra aging penalties to all physical stats will just make players go "F%$@ that" and roll a new, actually playable character.
3.) Reincarnate already works on people who die of old age as written, actually. It is the only resurrection style spell that does so.
4.) The ability burn thing just makes it more complicated for no apparent reason.
What exactly are you trying to do?
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The thing that bothers me the most about reincarnate is when you worship the patron deity of your race. It makes little sense that a dwarven devout worhshiper of Torag reincarnates as an orc or an elf, especially when the game deliberately points out that a deity can influence a resurrection. And no, don't use the "why would a deity allow a reincarnation and give up the chance to gain a soul" argument. With some exceptions, Pathfinder deities don't really work that way and using that logic doesn't make any sense.
3.) Reincarnate already works on people who die of old age as written, actually. It is the only resurrection style spell that does so.
Yeah, that's intentional. It gives the reincarnate spell an interesting niche among resurrection magic. Pathfinder's campaign setting takes advantage of this, too. The River Kingdom Tymon has a ruler that made a deal with powerful druids to reincarnate him forever. At the end of each life, he stages a tournament where he passes the mantle to his next incarnation.
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What I was trying to achieve was the following:
A) Make reincarnation more realistic (read closer to mythology) by allowing the gender of the suspect to change (I understand some people might not be comfortable with this idea, hence read point C).
B) Make it so that the spell can create a new body ranging from 0 - <old age> to not only make it slightly more random and also in order to create a spell that allows characters to become children again for whatever reason (I understand that a six months old fighter is not a great asset to the party, GO READ C NOW PLEASE)
C) Removing the randomness from this spell by letting you choose, for a price. You don't want your subject to be a Bugbear? You don't want subject's gender to change? You don't want him to be a five year old?
I do realize I could have simply made something called Reincarnation, Greater, make it a higher level spell and be done with it, but then I realized I would be taking away the choice of age, race and gender from classes (archetypes) like Monk of the Four Winds, Reincarnated Druid and Heavens Oracle, so I came up with the possibility of modification existing spell by paying a cost (once you pay you can simply state objects new race, age and gender and the spell creates body according to your description). It could have been an XP cost, but since Pathfinder did away with them I choose it's replacement - ability burn (or negative levels, but they seem too harsh).
And NO, I don't think you should be able to change "class", "ability scores", "back-story", "alignment", etc. - those are all things connected with YOUR SOUL.
Race, age and gender are just a state of YOUR BODY, they have very little to do with the fact who you are, unless you choose to be obsessed with them (because of an irrational fear of being the opposite gender, different age or different race).
Strange, when I read the topic, I was expecting a system to make Reincarnation less random, not more...
Strange, when I read the topic, I was expecting a system to make Reincarnation less random, not more...
It would be less random (read point C two posts above you), as it is now, you have no way to choosing your race.
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And then a melee reincarnates into the body of a 6-year old / 90-year old. --> Slit your own throat to get a new roll, or trash the character.
So heroic.
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And then a melee reincarnates into the body of a 6-year old / 90-year old. --> Slit your own throat to get a new roll, or trash the character.
So heroic.
Oh, but that's only if you don't want Negative Levels or Ability Burn. You know, those things that make characters more likely to die if the don't spend more of their gold?
Raise Dead becomes the cheaper option, suddenly...
20 Strength toddlers happen though, on occasion.
To the OP: you say you wanted to make Reincarnation more like its mythological roots, but then do nothing to actually accomplish that. First, the person's deeds(alignment) are taking into account and then his soul is reborn in a infant body of whatever the gods decided he deserve to come back as. Humans/humanoids were not the highest reward.
And things like backstory and class and ability scores are entirely linked to the body because the soul doesn't work out or retain memories.
I think the main fix Reincarnation needs is an expanded table that includes all the humanoids in the ARG at least
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Taking permanent ability score loss to choose is not appealing at all when the spell is already pretty punishing as is. Taking extra negative levels might be reasonable, but permanently losing your ability scores is ridiculously harsh.
Race, age and gender are just a state of YOUR BODY, they have very little to do with the fact who you are, unless you choose to be obsessed with them (because of an irrational fear of being the opposite gender, different age or different race).
That's not entirely true. If you're a native outsider, your race is a part of your soul. It's one criticism of the reincarnate spell because, technically, a native outsider should always reincarnate as a native outsider related to the same plane. An archon aasimar should always reincarnate as an archon aasimar or an angel aasimar because their soul draws its heritage from Heaven. Getting a new body doesn't change that.
Also, reincarnating as an old man makes even less sense than reincarnating as a young adult. We're not time lords.
Taking permanent ability score loss...
Sorry, I was just reading Ultimate Psionics where some powers require you to burn an ability score (True Creation for example) as an offset of being otherwise over-powered. This ability score burn heals at the rate of 1 per day (which is really not that bad, making someone happy in exchange for a one day of one ability score less).
All I think the spell needs is a new race chart with more races. It's weird in my opinion that lizardfolk, troglodytes, and bugbears are there, but tengu, kitsune, and many other zero-HD races are not.
All I think the spell needs is a new race chart with more races. It's weird in my opinion that lizardfolk, troglodytes, and bugbears are there, but tengu, kitsune, and many other zero-HD races are not.
Two things:
1.) Good choice of avatar. *high-five*
2.) I heartily endorse making a custom list. None of my players have gotten around to using Reincarnate but I'm planning on making my own table of d100 using this list, edited and weighted slightly towards core.
Ahhhhh, I still remember the good old days when wizards and druids had their own separate reincarnation tables.
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Maybe roll randomly to see if your alignment changes like the Nameless One. And while we're at it, why not a whole new name, too? Your human paladin can't keep calling himself Steve when he reincarnates as a chaotic evil female kobold.
Steve is a very popular name amongst female Chaotic Evil Kobolds.