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Hello everyone of the wonderful Paizo community!
I have a question about campaign/adventure planning. I am the one in my group who usually ends up playing the role of GM. I don't mind, most of the people I play with are new to RPGs and I have been a player for many years. I like being able to share this experience with them.
I have been GMing for new group for about 4-5 years, and the problem is I always run published campaigns (which I have to say, Pathfinder and Paizo have some of my favorite modern Adventure Paths), again this is not a bad thing, and it has been great for me to get my management style down, but it is not the experience I want to give them. I want to share with them the joy of a homebrew game like I remember, where their characters are not only part of the world, but they as players help to define the world as well. I remember when parts of my character history would be harvested by the GM to create an area of the world. I have been very blessed to have had amazing GMs in my youth when I first started.
Anyway, for that reason I am trying to immerse myself in the world of adventure/world building. Like the guy who goes from drinking beer to making wine, I have aged to the point of wanting to do more for my players. I have a vague idea of what I want to do. The problem I have is understanding the logic of creating encounters and what would be appropriate compared to what is cliche and tropey.
Example, I want the party to start off by returning to their hometown after the passing of a mutual friend (helping to create connections early) to find the town they group up in has changed. It is more somber, the people are downtrodden, and there is less hope. To top it off, they come to find their friend was lost trying to defend the town from creatures that have started to attack, sensing weakness.
I want start the game off at level 1, and I am having trouble creating appropriate encounters that are not the same old thing (rats in the basement, kobolds, etc.) as it were. I would like to create something compelling but at the same time give the party a chance to truly connect with their character right from the beginning, and if helping the town regain it's hope sticks with them, then spiral them outward to other areas and keep going on their journey together.
What this boils down to in my rambling madman style is this. How do you balance what is appropriate with what is interesting in an encounter or adventure? And how do you scale it to increase in difficulty with the party. Also, am I putting the cart before the horse here? Where do I need to start if not here?
Oh, and maps? My stick figures are lopsided, any suggestions there would be awesome as well.
Thank you one and all, I appreciate any help and insight you can provide. I want to do right by my players, and that means educating myself.
Kudos for being so committed to your players! My advice for making a full, robust world that your players can really sink their teeth into is this:
Don't. Try to make a world that can stand on its own, but leave a lot of gaps. This will help you as the GM to not get overwhelmed by all the detail required for that kind of task. That can get very intimidating, and can lead to you giving up halfway. To the same vein, your characters are not likely to visit every nook and cranny of the world; so make sure you're not spending countless hours designing a city that will ultimately be ignored - those hours could be better spent with other aspects of world building:
Make lots (and I mean LOTS) of NPC's. Put the ones you know you'll start with where they need to be. The rest are your arsenal. A PC surprises you by questioning that beggar for information? Guess what? You have an NPC for that, with a name, personality, and quirk. Even if you didn't have a beggar lined up, take a different NPC, tweak this or that, and now you do. Do the same thing with towns and shops. Again, put the ones you know the story will definitely put the PC's in where they need to be, but the rest are now in your back pocket whenever you need them.
Don't take this advice as saying you shouldn't build the world you had in mind - go for it! Just know that it doesn't need to be air tight. Having a flexibility about what is where in your world will make it easier to adjust to the PC's interests. If the story takes an unexpected turn into Undead territory, and the Players are just drinking it up, then would be a great time to fill in that cloudy section of the map with good old, gratifying Zombie Provence.
As for being cliche, don't worry too much about it. Being a little cliche is a good thing - it gives the Players something to grab hold of. It'll be up to you to gauge how much cliche to put in before it becomes distracting, because this is a person-to-person basis. You know your players better than us. How capable would they be of staying in the moment when told they must find a magical cure for a princess who's been put in an eternal sleep after biting a cursed apple?
Agreed, a little bit of cliché is ok. Especially for inexperienced players.
Encounters.
Usually I start with the story and figure out what I want the base plot to be about. Then I try to figure out what encounters fit with that. then I try to make sure the encounter is within their capabilities. Then I tweak crap until it seems at least a bit interesting/different.
If I find the encounter I want is something in the midden heap, ok rats seems appropriate. Depending upon numbers and optimizations maybe 2 dire rats and a rat swarm, but not at the same time. The rat swarm first. Then maybe a 3 rounds later the dire rats come out of the holes.
To make it interesting? Hmm... Ok, the midden is on the side of a hill, slippery, and difficult terrain combined. Acrobatics checks to keep from falling and sliding down the hill in (well you know). And the druid has said you can't burn them out. It is the dry season and the brush on the hill side could engulf the whole forest in flame. That's a bit different.
A few of kobolds that fire once then run away. Trying to lead the party through various traps is cliché and cal also be interesting.
For adversaries try people. I mean, a bunch of commoners with someone with a class level or two lesding them; you can get in plenty of roleplaying and there are many relevant plots to pick from so clichés don't have to be an issue.
There are millions of maps out there on the internet, no exaggeration. Take a look and copy from, print out or just be inspired by some map you like.
Contributor
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Hello everyone of the wonderful Paizo community!
I have a question about campaign/adventure planning. I am the one in my group who usually ends up playing the role of GM. I don't mind, most of the people I play with are new to RPGs and I have been a player for many years. I like being able to share this experience with them.
I have been GMing for new group for about 4-5 years, and the problem is I always run published campaigns (which I have to say, Pathfinder and Paizo have some of my favorite modern Adventure Paths), again this is not a bad thing, and it has been great for me to get my management style down, but it is not the experience I want to give them. I want to share with them the joy of a homebrew game like I remember, where their characters are not only part of the world, but they as players help to define the world as well. I remember when parts of my character history would be harvested by the GM to create an area of the world. I have been very blessed to have had amazing GMs in my youth when I first started.
Anyway, for that reason I am trying to immerse myself in the world of adventure/world building. Like the guy who goes from drinking beer to making wine, I have aged to the point of wanting to do more for my players. I have a vague idea of what I want to do. The problem I have is understanding the logic of creating encounters and what would be appropriate compared to what is cliche and tropey.
Example, I want the party to start off by returning to their hometown after the passing of a mutual friend (helping to create connections early) to find the town they group up in has changed. It is more somber, the people are downtrodden, and there is less hope. To top it off, they come to find their friend was lost trying to defend the town from creatures that have started to attack, sensing weakness.
I want start the game off at level 1, and I am having trouble creating appropriate encounters that are not the same old thing (rats in the basement, kobolds, etc.) as it were. I would like to create something compelling but at the same time give the party a chance to truly connect with their character right from the beginning, and if helping the town regain it's hope sticks with them, then spiral them outward to other areas and keep going on their journey together.
What this boils down to in my rambling madman style is this. How do you balance what is appropriate with what is interesting in an encounter or adventure? And how do you scale it to increase in difficulty with the party. Also, am I putting the cart before the horse here? Where do I need to start if not here?
Oh, and maps? My stick figures are lopsided, any suggestions there would be awesome as well.
Thank you one and all, I appreciate any help and insight you can provide. I want to do right by my players, and that means educating myself.
I'm still getting a handle on the rest of your post, but for the bolded portion, I'd take a look at the Carrion Crown Player's Guide, as that Path uses a similar conceit to bring the party together.
As for the rest of your post, the others have had good advice so far. If you have more specific ideas of what you want, I can help you refine them. ^_^
Agreed on the bit of cliche for new players being okay. Including some of the known tropes can even be fun at that point if they haven't seen them before.
Same for the 'same old monsters'. If it's not something they have seen before, it can work. The biggest piece of advice here I can give is 'refluff' monsters if you think they are overdone.
Example: When I was introducing a group of new players to the game, while they were waiting for a meeting with a local adventuring guild a house went up into flames. Being heroic they rushed out where they were at to help and ran inside. The fire had been set up by a Councilmember to try kill off a rival by bartering with some devils. Hence they had summoned in a bunch of fire-y creatures. This encounter was made up of:
- a 'fire elemental' snake (fire resistance, dealt 1 point of fire damage on a hit instead of poison)
- three ash rats (fire resistance, dealt 1 fire damage on a hit instead of disease)
- an imp (the one that was handling it all, CR 2. The imps orders were not to get caught so it tried to flee invisibly and got smacked down hard)
Besides that they had to deal with falling debris (reflex saves mostly) and exploding doors. Basic trap things refluffed into a more fun and exciting encounter than they might have got otherwise. Plus escort the councilmember and his son out once everything else was done...and it got them started on a much higher level plotline involving stronger devils and the corrupt city council.
Oh wow! Quick responses! Thanks everyone! I will try to do this in as much of a logical way as I can:
Make lots (and I mean LOTS) of NPC's.
Do you know of a way to keep them organized? And how many would be lots? I will probably overshoot it anyway but I was just curious how many you usually make up?
Having a flexibility about what is where in your world will make it easier to adjust to the PC's interests. If the story takes an unexpected turn into Undead territory, and the Players are just drinking it up, then would be a great time to fill in that cloudy section of the map with good old, gratifying Zombie Provence.
I have purchased a couple books that say the same thing (The Lazy Dungeon Master, The Kobold Guide to Worldbuilding, etc.) and I get those points. I guess that is why I want to focus on the hometown of the PCs at first, and then spiral out. I think I am having trouble with the initial set up and the logical process I should be using (How much is too much information? What absolutely HAS to be there? Questions like that) because I have never made a campaign or adventure from scratch. I mean I have tried back when I was a young teen who thought making and adventure meant me actively trying to kill my players and railroad them into my story. Then I took many years off, and then returned and found out I was the one with the experience so I was the GM now ha ha.
Agreed, a little bit of cliché is ok. Especially for inexperienced players.
Encounters.
Usually I start with the story and figure out what I want the base plot to be about. Then I try to figure out what encounters fit with that. then I try to make sure the encounter is within their capabilities. Then I tweak crap until it seems at least a bit interesting/different
Ok, I get this too, and I found the sheet where it says to calculate the over EXP and then use that as a bank of points to build the encounter. Should I be shooting for a specific CR when designing the encounters (+1 Party level, equal to party level, etc.) because at least in the published encounters I run, the CR ratings of the encounters are at level, but the party seems to crush them pretty easily. How do you balance the idea the PCs should succeed with the desire to keep them on the edge of their seat?
For adversaries try people. I mean, a bunch of commoners with someone with a class level or two lesding them; you can get in plenty of roleplaying and there are many relevant plots to pick from so clichés don't have to be an issue.
I have thought of that, and it might work because commoners have such a low EXP reward. I will have to play around with that.
There are millions of maps out there on the internet, no exaggeration. Take a look and copy from, print out or just be inspired by some map you like.
Is there a place you like in particular to find maps? I ask because I have looked for maps (I even funded a kickstarter for maps, because I know where I am weakest ha ha) but most of the maps I have found are not usable because they are copyrighted (not that I wouldn't purchase them, but as a new teacher, school loans and what not must come first.)
I'm still getting a handle on the rest of your post, but for the bolded portion, I'd take a look at the Carrion Crown Player's Guide, as that Path uses a similar conceit to bring the party together.
As for the rest of your post, the others have had good advice so far. If you have more specific ideas of what you want, I can help you refine them. ^_^
I am really in the brainstorming portion of the campaign building. I would like them to spiral out into an almost business like attitude (like the Acquisitions Incorporated Franchise) when they realize they can make money doing this. I think this would give me the most flexibility because I could present "job opportunities" to them and that way I could have an idea of what I need to develop. The problem is I am a very visual person, which is why I think in some way I need to find a decent starting point. even if I don't make the entire map straight out I can have a general idea of how it might look? Does that make sense? Example, the hometown of Northholt (I think that works) is a town boarding on upper ranges of the country, where it is colder most of the year. I think I need to find a good way to develop the town, but I also think I need to at least focus on the immediate area around it in case my players are like "Welp! This town has really gone downhill! Lets go somewhere else!"
Same for the 'same old monsters'. If it's not something they have seen before, it can work. The biggest piece of advice here I can give is 'refluff' monsters if you think they are overdone.
Example: When I was introducing a group of new players to the game, while they were waiting for a meeting with a local adventuring guild a house went up into flames. Being heroic they rushed out where they were at to help and ran inside. The fire had been set up by a Councilmember to try kill off a rival by bartering with some devils. Hence they had summoned in a bunch of fire-y creatures. This encounter was made up of:
- a 'fire elemental' snake (fire resistance, dealt 1 point of fire damage on a hit instead of poison)
- three ash rats (fire resistance, dealt 1 fire damage on a hit instead of disease)
- an imp (the one that was handling it all, CR 2. The imps orders were not to get caught so it tried to flee invisibly and got smacked down hard)Besides that they had to deal with falling debris (reflex saves mostly) and exploding doors. Basic trap things refluffed into a more fun and exciting encounter than they might have got otherwise. Plus escort the councilmember and his son out once everything else was done...and it got them started on a much higher level plotline involving stronger devils and the corrupt city council.
Ok, so my question for you would be this:
Are those templates, did you change the actual stats? Or just the descriptors? I ask because I am curious how you manage the CR Rating for the encounter if you have to change stats? I love the idea, I never thought about it like that, but I want to make sure I am not going to take that and then BAM! and I have accidentally created a total party kill situation.
Truly, I appreciate everything, and I hope I made my questions clear. Ha ha at the very least I am going to learn how to be clear with my questions! My students will appreciate that.
...
Agreed, a little bit of cliché is ok. Especially for inexperienced players.
Encounters.
Usually I start with the story and figure out what I want the base plot to be about. Then I try to figure out what encounters fit with that. then I try to make sure the encounter is within their capabilities. Then I tweak crap until it seems at least a bit interesting/differentOk, I get this too, and I found the sheet where it says to calculate the over EXP and then use that as a bank of points to build the encounter. Should I be shooting for a specific CR when designing the encounters (+1 Party level, equal to party level, etc.) because at least in the published encounters I run, the CR ratings of the encounters are at level, but the party seems to crush them pretty easily. How do you balance the idea the PCs should succeed with the desire to keep them on the edge of their seat?
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Actually, I don't try to keep them on the edge all the time. I thank that is self defeating in that it just becomes the new norm.
I actually, don't spend a lot of time calculating CR all that much anymore. I start with something that is about level equivalent (or even maybe -1) for the first encounter or two. They are still learning their character and I'm learning what things they handle well and poorly. Then I try to gradually bump it up a bit from one encounter to the next. With every so often another easy one thrown in. That way, by the end, I have a pretty good idea what they can handle for the big guy fight.
Another good idea for the big fights to keep from accidentally causing a TPK is waves of attackers. Last group I GM's for they had a big nasty fight at about level 10. I had 7 or 8 waves of attackers written up. A new wave was incoming a bit before they were done with the previous batch. (Or at least almost right away if they wiped things out too quickly.) I actually only used 4 waves of attackers, since they were pretty much wiped out of spells and pretty badly hurt by then. Without fresh waves of mooks rushing in, they were able to finish of the evil council pretty quickly.
At level 12 for the same group, I had something similar planed, but only 3 waves after the initial group. However, I over did the initial group and they were in worse shape than I expected. So I only had one additional wave and cut the numbers in half.
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Same for the 'same old monsters'. If it's not something they have seen before, it can work. The biggest piece of advice here I can give is 'refluff' monsters if you think they are overdone.Example: When I was introducing a group of new players to the game, while they were waiting for a meeting with a local adventuring guild a house went up into flames. Being heroic they rushed out where they were at to help and ran inside. The fire had been set up by a Councilmember to try kill off a rival by bartering with some devils. Hence they had summoned in a bunch of fire-y creatures. This encounter was made up of:
- a 'fire elemental' snake (fire resistance, dealt 1 point of fire damage on a hit instead of poison)
- three ash rats (fire resistance, dealt 1 fire damage on a hit instead of disease)
- an imp (the one that was handling it all, CR 2. The imps orders were not to get caught so it tried to flee invisibly and got smacked down hard)
...
...
Ok, so my question for you would be this:Are those templates, did you change the actual stats? Or just the descriptors? I ask because I am curious how you manage the CR Rating for the encounter if you have to change stats? I love the idea, I never thought about it like that, but I want to make sure I am not going to take that and then BAM! and I have accidentally created a total party kill situation.
Truly, I appreciate everything, and I hope I made my questions clear. Ha ha at the very least I am going to learn how to be clear with my questions! My students will appreciate that.
...
This is an excellent idea. And I've done both change the stats or just the description.
A while back a party encountered a tribe Akranards (or something close to that anyway).
They had tough warty toad-like skin with a kinda jaundiced coloration. They were medium sized but bigger than the average human. There tribal life had them pretty warlike and aggressive. Etc... I put quite a bit into the description.
The stats were exactly the same as gnolls.
You can also change stats or equipment a little bit without affecting things too much. In 3.5 there was some race that had heavy javelins. I upped their dex 2, dropped their strength 2, and gave them repeating crossbows. Altered name and reddish-green skin, no hair. Done.
Ok, so my question for you would be this:
Are those templates, did you change the actual stats? Or just the descriptors? I ask because I am curious how you manage the CR Rating for the encounter if you have to change stats? I love the idea, I never thought about it like that, but I want to make sure I am not going to take that and then BAM! and I have accidentally created a total party kill situation.
Truly, I appreciate everything, and I hope I made my questions clear. Ha ha at the very least I am going to learn how to be clear with my questions! My students will appreciate that.
Templates are the same idea, but nothing quite so formal. You can use them and I do fairly often, though usually more to adjust CRs up and down in a lot of cases or add little interesting quirks.
I also do just description changes too. If you can describe it in a way that your players can't guess or it adds to the scenario, go for it.
I'm a bit easy going on experience (I let the story/plot dictate their levels or when it feels right). The idea is if you do trade stuff out, make it about equal value so you don't impact CR too much. That said, CR can be extremely wonky and parties can stomp things CR+4 at times or get destroyed by their CR-4 on an off day (shadows are notorious for this). Some monsters are just more gimicky than others and you'll figure it out as you go. Experience goes a long way. Also, post up anything you aren't sure of here and people will give you good feedback.
Anyway, for me...my process for refluffing critters goes something like this:
1) Figure out encounter (Ex. let's say was the burning building scenario).
2) Find stat blocks of creatures that I can adjust to fit the theme and are roughly in the CR ballpark of the party. The first one I grabbed was ye old rat, Dire Rat
3) Refluff to fit the scenario as appropriate or to make it more interesting. In this case, the usual dire rat has disease which sucks for a first level party. I swapped out its ability to use disease for an additional 1 fire damage on its bite and /5 fire resistance.
4) Since I play in Roll20, find cool art to represent the creature. You can do this as the first step as well to inspire yourself then look for a statblock that is close too. For the rat, I found this on a quick search: Ash Rat
Voila! More interesting creatures and encounters without a lot of work.
At first level. I suggest make the mutual friend a normal guy who died protecting a resource of the community they can't live without. Maybe he's a shepherd who was responsible for a flock of sheep that serves as both food source and clothing that is a big staple of the town's economy. Instead of handling it entirely themselves let them train a group of npcs in their most basic skills granting them the benefits of npc classes. After that they all hunt together finding out it's a pack of wolves. Maybe they're part of a plot of a druid, or something's drivimg them out of the forest. Maybe they're trained by local monsters.
A few things too ...
One, have a plan available. One problem that arose in a game I was playing in was how a particular adventure had too MANY open options. And we'd argue ourselves into inaction. You don't have to give them a single corridor, but maybe have some train tracks they can find if all else fails.
When I saw how you wanted to introduce things, make sure your players are fine with that set character origin. They're new so it might not be an issue, though. Hopefully. (Watch out for the One True Queen slumming it as a fighter in the party, of course.) Still, get an idea of who each one is, and what they were doing 'back home' originally. Even rivals or enemies might get together, like a merchant and the rogue who kept stealing his wares. Or a barbarian and a lawful cleric who always lectured her about chaos and violence. As long as they've got a deep-down way to connect, it could be OK.
First. Good for you some of my most memorable play was this sort of Homebrew.
Second. Build slowly. No reason to have the far side of the continent mapped if your players are not going to get there this session.
Third. As to the amount of NPC's have your main ones ready. I have always found that I could get away with a cheat sheet for the rest. Name and a few notes that can be expanded later if needed.
Fourth. As for the encounters remember the versatility of facing humanoids they can be geared to any level.
If you want to have them facing something tougher then you think they can handle - they are in their home town so help from NPC's can level out the encounter.
Fifth. Remember that players will surprise you so be prepared to take your world in directions you may not have anticapated
And have fun
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Dont fetishize balance in encounters too much. Read the rest of the Alexandrian blog on encounter design and more...
As for interesting adventures you might want to use/adapt some pre written adventures. Check out Raging Swan Press or Four Dollar Dungeons for some excellent low level adventures.
As for NPCs check out d20pfsrd.com NPC section. Don't over prepare and sometimes fudge or simply wing it. Reuse and reskin unused NPCs later. There are lots of good NPC books out there: Raging Swan Press has a Villains series as well as the pure crunch series. Legendary Games also does good Villain products.
Consider using a random encounter table or several. There are great ones available from Purple Duck Games, Rite Publishing or Raging Swan Press. Also check out Raging Swan Press GM Miscellany series.
Check out these threads:
What are you're favorite DM assistance tools
Sandbox adventure fodder needed (even if you don't want to run a sandbox)
Sandbox and scheming villains (If you do want to run a sandbox(y) campaign)
One of the best ways to avoid cliche monsters is to make them fight NPCs. Have them go up against the town guard or something.
Classed monsters as well can spice things up. Goblin Alchemists burning down houses, for instance.
There's also a surprising amount of very interesting low level creatures.
Some of my favorites:
Ooze Swarms (Problem: Swarms are a b*+*~ for low level characters. Utilize only if they can potentially handle it.)
Ghouls (Especially effective as a lurking danger. They start off robbing graves, because they prefer "aged" flesh, but once they've eaten their fill they'll need fresh meat. They also pair very well with class levels, and even have quite a few race specific Feats...including ones that let them deactivate their Stench and pass as humanoid. Anybody in the city could be a Ghoul. Give it to all the ones in your "tribe" and it can be great paranoia fuel.)
And last but not least:
Pugwampis (These can potentially be ESPECIALLY good for the idea you have. Perhaps the town has fallen on hard times over the last few years because a tribe of Pugwampis are hiding around town and causing people to have bad luck. Farming checks are failed, resulting in famine. Craft checks are failed, resulting in shoddy goods that can be neither used nor sold. Children hurt themselves playing much more often after failing normally easy Climb and Acrobatics checks, and the town doctor loses more patients because he flubs his Heal checks.)
I HIGHLY recommend using Pugwampis.
As for NPCs, I actually suggest the opposite of what some here are suggesting. Do NOT make up a ton of NPCs with long write-ups on them.
Maybe keep a short list consisting of short stuff like "Timothy Bainsborough: Baker, married with 2 kids", an dthat's it. If that.
Unless the NPC is one who seeks out the PCs there's a good chance they will never be interacted with, and nobody's going to ask them for their life story in any case. If they do, make something up.
Ok so I have been reading up on these comments. Thank you to everyone who has shared so far! I greatly appreciate all the help. What I have done is I have decided to start with the town, and give essentially a basic description. This is going to start being my seed for developing the adventures in and around the town. I have two potential seeds, but I figure I might come up with one or two more. Here is what I have so far:
"Location: Town of Northolt, located in the north eastern border of Difflin.
Description: A sleepy little town, Northholt is set back among the forests of the Brukveil. Surrounded on most sides by the Blue Mountains, which make up the natural boarder between Difflin and the northern country known as the Moores, the town survives on the main trading road leading to the nearest trade port of Callain. Hunting and trapping are the main jobs, exporting furs to be sold. There are some farms, but the longer winter makes only seasonal plants and winter wheat possible.
As for the general populace, the people are kind if a little curt, and they live by and for their neighbors. Though the town is predominantly Human, a collection of Dwarves, Halflings, and even a handful of Half-Orcs have come to call the town home, their hearty stock adding a well appreciated work ethic to the town. Recently, veins of both copper and iron have been found in the mountains, and surveying has begun to taken place. This would normally spell good news for the town, but a rash of accidents have all but halted progress forward.
Further, it would seem something has come to threaten the trade road of the town, a situation that could spell dire consequences for the people of Northolt. A small band of Kobolds have started harassing the people on the road. Though never truly friends, the town and the tribe have at least kept to their own.
The party is summoned back to the town upon hearing of the death of an old friend. When they return, they find all is not well with their once home, and the once close town is starting to split and divide."
So I have "Investigate the Accidents" and "Investigate the Trade Road" as possible adventure seeds. I was thinking about coming with maybe one more. Basically the idea is the party would do what they could to restore hope to the town and find that they could do this for a living. Any feedback would be great. Also, questions I should be thinking about and still need to be answered. From here I am oing to try and come up with the NPCs for the town, so more to come I suppose.
Also, I want to make sure I am responding to what has been said so far.
I have read the articles on making most encounters lower than the CR rating of the party but at level 1 there are not that many creatures that could be used. I mean, even your garden variety rat would only allow me to use 4 before I have already hit CL limit. Has anyone come up with a decent way to manage this? As in, I feel like rats would be a lower CR than what it is (they are the same as a Kobold, which I would maybe set as more dangerous at 1st level than a rat). I guess maybe a context would be great.
Let's say I am going with the classic "Rats are in the tavern cellar" encounter. by the way the CL's are build, I would at most use 2 rats to keep it low level... but two rats to me do not a problem make, but I can't add too many more otherwise I blow out the CL limit. Would nerfing the rats be an option? Such as making them sickly and the main concern is that they would pass their disease off to the grain being stored in the basement?
Also, I need to start proofreading. I have some typos up there in the post before and I apologize. I am just excited to have so many people willing to give me advice and want to make sure I am keeping up with everything.
Have you decided why the kobolds are no longer keeping to their own? An element of investigation and discovery might serve that story well. ^_^
I was thinking on that. I have a couple routes I could go. One reason would be the invasion of their home by a third party, which is kind of classic, but also it might be a little too basic.
A second reason could be the introduction of a new kind of threat. For example, maybe a Wizard with a taste for transmutation is starting to rework different animals making them more dangerous or different. In this case, the wizard has altered a common small spider to have a mind affecting bite, basically putting the Kobolds under the control of the wizard and creating a hive mind personality. This would bode for possible larger things on the horizon.
The last possibility could reside within the town itself. Maybe something is moving within the town and the Kobolds have noticed. Whatever it is, it is using the trade route to export something, and the Kobolds are actually trying to keep the town safe.
I figured I was going to start with the basic problems and then develop them out as I go. I want to flesh out the town too.
Speaking of:
As for NPCs check out d20pfsrd.com NPC section. Don't over prepare and sometimes fudge or simply wing it. Reuse and reskin unused NPCs later. There are lots of good NPC books out there: Raging Swan Press has a Villains series as well as the pure crunch series. Legendary Games also does good Villain products.
Like the NPC section and I am checking the other resources, thanks!
A second reason could be the introduction of a new kind of threat. For example, maybe a Wizard with a taste for transmutation is starting to rework different animals making them more dangerous or different. In this case, the wizard has altered a common small spider to have a mind affecting bite, basically putting the Kobolds under the control of the wizard and creating a hive mind personality. This would bode for possible larger things on the horizon.
I like, but not being overly familiar with the bestiary I can't think of any qualities that do this. So if you're thinking spell you might not want to leave that lying around for adventurers to find. Also just saying that a new tribal chief could have risen to power causing the shift in behavior.
Also, I want to make sure I am responding to what has been said so far.
I have read the articles on making most encounters lower than the CR rating of the party but at level 1 there are not that many creatures that could be used. I mean, even your garden variety rat would only allow me to use 4 before I have already hit CL limit. Has anyone come up with a decent way to manage this? As in, I feel like rats would be a lower CR than what it is (they are the same as a Kobold, which I would maybe set as more dangerous at 1st level than a rat). I guess maybe a context would be great.
Let's say I am going with the classic "Rats are in the tavern cellar" encounter. by the way the CL's are build, I would at most use 2 rats to keep it low level... but two rats to me do not a problem make, but I can't add too many more otherwise I blow out the CL limit. Would nerfing the rats be an option? Such as making them sickly and the main concern is that they would pass their disease off to the grain being stored in the basement?
Also, I need to start proofreading. I have some typos up there in the post before and I apologize. I am just excited to have so many people willing to give me advice and want to make sure I am keeping up with everything.
You're making a bit of a mistake by trying to rigidly stick to CR in general, and in this case specifically CR = APL.
4 rats is CR 1...but that doesn't limit you. You can feel perfectly free to throw in 6 or 8 rats and make it a CR 2 or 3 encounter. It makes it more challenging (and provides more EXP, if you use EXP...which I recommend you don't), but CR is not a hard limit.
Plus, CR is a rough estimate of power anyway. 8 rats vs 4 people still likely results in an easy fight.
Yeah definitely vary CR. Go CR-1 or CR-2 for when you want them feeling like heroes and up to CR+2 or so for more challenging fights. Once they get the hang of things, I've thrown as high as CR+6 or so, but you really have to know your party, their tendencies, and more to be able to balance that properly.
My thought for the kobolds is perhaps a small dragon (wyrmling even), has moved into the kobold warrens and is forcing them out to gather treasure for its hoard. On the classic side and you can play up the dragon as big and mean and the kobolds treating it like a demi-god only for the party to run into something smaller than them or even their size. Or switch it up to something else. Something like a dragon that kobolds might not know better, but using them to the same purpose (like a pseudodragon or pixie that was basically teasing them with illusions).
You're making a bit of a mistake by trying to rigidly stick to CR in general, and in this case specifically CR = APL.
4 rats is CR 1...but that doesn't limit you. You can feel perfectly free to throw in 6 or 8 rats and make it a CR 2 or 3 encounter. It makes it more challenging (and provides more EXP, if you use EXP...which I recommend you don't), but CR is not a hard limit.
Plus, CR is a rough estimate of power anyway. 8 rats vs 4 people still likely results in an easy fight.
Ok, well then that kind of shoots my logic in the foot ha ha. I was kind of using the CR system as a guideline, but from the way everyone describes it the CR system is kind of like a false security net.
No worries though! This is why I ask, so I can learn!
Now that I have that information, lets say I want to use the Pugwampi's in the mines to explain why the accidents keep happening. Given their nature for forcing players to reroll pretty much any attack, then I am going to wager that against my party which would be starting out at level 1. That is a pretty nasty effect to throw at them early on, so I might keep those numbers low, and mix it up with some Gremlin made traps, making it more of a puzzle/trap quest.
Then with the Kobolds:
My thought for the kobolds is perhaps a small dragon (wyrmling even), has moved into the kobold warrens and is forcing them out to gather treasure for its hoard. On the classic side and you can play up the dragon as big and mean and the kobolds treating it like a demi-god only for the party to run into something smaller than them or even their size. Or switch it up to something else. Something like a dragon that kobolds might not know better, but using them to the same purpose (like a pseudodragon or pixie that was basically teasing them with illusions).
I like this idea, and I may see what I can do with it. However, I just realized that a doppelganger is not that far above where I would want them to be, so it might be that a Doppelganger or two have infiltrated the town. I could even use that as my last sort of confrontation.
I think I decided on the graverobbing angle from you as well Rynjin. I might develop that as a third sort of close adventure for them.
However, tonight my goal is to work on NPCS. At least the main one. Of which I have the town official, the head of the small local guard, the innkeeper, the blacksmith, the town merchant, etc.
OH! Organization? What methods do you prefer to keep things in order? I know about Evernote, and I have heard good things about Scrivner, just thought I would ask, and if you can point me towards any examples. I will admit that organization is one of my biggest weaknesses, but once I do get something set up I am pretty good at keeping up with it.
Yes, you DEFINITELY want to keep Pugwampi numbers low for a fight. Even at high levels they can be a nuisance (it's effectively a 20 ft. aura of a class ability so powerful many Oracles willingly take on a second Curse just to be able to take an action to affect one target with it).
Ok so I have started working on NPCs, and I think I am going to avoid Intellect devourers for now only because I think that might be a bit much to throw at these guys at the moment. However, the doppelganger angle might be good because doing some reading I found this.
"Although not usually evil, they are interested only in themselves and regard all others as playthings to be manipulated and deceived. They are particularly fond of invading human societies in order to indulge in their desires—some enjoy the complex dance of politics while others seek constant change in the race and gender of both themselves and their romantic companions. While not standard, it is those doppelgangers use their gifts for cruel and sadistic purposes that are most notorious, and these shapeshifters are the primary cause of the race's sinister reputation."
I think that might work for what I have planned, and it becomes the basis for the different NPCs I think I need to create.
The Town Governor - Human Female Aristocrat 2 - Karin Whitestone
The town's current governor, assigned by the lord of the land, she is a little bit of an outsider. Used to more formal society with some of its finery, the town is not what she exactly desired. Though maybe a little vain, she does have the town's best interests at heart, though she is not the best at expressing it.
The Captain of the Guard - Dwarf Male Warrior ? - Dolgrin Stonebreaker
The Captain of the Guard for as long as anyone has known, he is maybe a little more lax in his older age, though he is still as respected as ever. The local kids still fear his wrath should they step out of line. (I was debating doing the "Two days from retirement" gag) He may not always see eye to eye with the new Governor, but he is a man of the town.
The Second in Command - Human Male Warrior ? - Connor Cairn
A young male, Dolgrin is sometimes a little more impatient, but he is set to take over the guard from Dogrin when the time comes. He is also dead, super dead, has been for a long time, and replaced by a particularly ambitious Doppelganger who has found that among other plants, Flayleaf grows particularly well here, and fetches a tidy profit. Has been secretly using the town's trade road to smuggle the drug out of the town.
I still need to get to some of the others like the town merchant, the town crazy and other positions like the innkeeper and blacksmith, but I think that is what I am starting with. The "?" means I am not sure exactly where to put these two because I don't want them to out trump the PCs when and if they figure it out, but at the same time I want them to be powerful enough I am not adjusting stats like crazy.
I wanted to post this so I could get a little feedback from those who have said to keep it simple. Is that too much description? Too little? Should I even worry about stats at this point?
That looks perfect to me. Stuff you can expand upon.
Sorry, I have been a little swamped. Kalindlara I probably should have figured that out when I saw the CR rating ha ha, misunderstandings on both ends, so no worries.
Also, I think for now I have decided to go with a more physical system. I can't seem to find any program I like in terms of organizing all the random thoughts happening in my head, so I am just going to go pick up 3x5 cards like some of you suggested and start writing on them.
Also, I am starting to work on the encounters, and it has lead me to two new questions.
I have the three major sort of encounters. The Kobolds, the Doppelgangers, and the Ghouls. If I were to rank them in terms of what I would feel they should get to first, I would go with:
1. Kobolds
2. Ghouls
3. Doppelgangers
I know that parties can do whatever they want, but I figured in terms of progression that is what I might start with. My two questions are:
How many smaller encounters leading up to these major events would you suggest?
How do you handle wandering monsters? Do you use wandering monsters?