the most interesting to play "tanks"


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Personally I would play a sword saint samurai. Likely warrior or ronin. Great weapon choices, great armour BAB and HP, but the real power is fighting off charms, stabilizing, continuing to fight on and on if needed without worrying too much. They are great at negating things that stop a tank dead, and just straight up ignoring them.

To me a tank is resistant to all things. With strong ac and hp and ability to shrug off most effects that would stop others, it's a good build. The challenge isn't part of the OP conditions so having a few times a day challenge wouldn't factor as much, but would be a good help.


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This is the build for the 'tank' I run in PFS, customized to suit your criteria...

Tiefling (Pitborn) 11th level Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)/1st level Oracle (Lore, Legalistic)
FCB: +1 hit point at 1st level, +1 to Lay on Hands at 2nd, 4th - 12th level
.
.
Attributes:
STR - 15 (+2 racial bonus, +1 @ 4th, 8th & 12th level)
DEX - 10
CON - 14
INT - 13 (-2 racial penalty)
WIS - 10
CHA - 16 (+2 racial bonus)

Traits:
Suicidal
Reactionary

Racial Abilities:
Dark Vision 60'
Cold Resistance 5
Electricity Resistance 5
Fire Resistance 5
Soul Seer
Fiendish Sprinter

Feats:
1st - Fey Foundling
3rd - Extra Lay on Hands
5th - Power Attack
7th - Extra Lay on Hands
9th - Greater Mercy
11th - Ultimate Mercy

Paladin Abilities:
Detect Evil at Will
Smite Evil 4/day (+4 attack, +4 AC, +11 damage)
Lay on Hands (Heal 5d6+20 self as a swift action or 5d6 others as a standard, usable 13/day, also removes Shaken condition, Cures Disease and Poison or adds an additional 1d6+2 healing)
Divine Health (Immune to Disease)
Channel Wrath (expend 2 Lay on Hands for an additional Smite)
Aura of Courage (Immune to Fear, grants +4 saves vs. Fear to allies)
Aura of Resolve (Immune to Charm, grants +4 saves vs. Charm to allies)
Divine Bond (+3 in enhancement bonuses 2/day)
Powerful Justice (Grant allies the damage bonus from Smite Evil)

Mystery/Curse:
Sidestep Secret (add your CHA bonus to Reflex saves and AC instead of DEX)
Sickened for 24 hours if you break your word
1/day gain a +4 morale bonus to any one roll when trying to keep your word
+3 to Diplomacy, Intimidate and Sense Motive when speaking to a person one-on-one.

Spells:
Deathwatch at will
Oracle Spells Known (0 - Unlimited, 1st - 4/day):
0 - Detect Magic, Enhanced Diplomacy, Guidance, Resistance
1st - Cure Light Wounds, Know the Enemy, Moment of Glory
Paladin Spells
1st - Heroic Defiance x2, Divine Favor
2nd - Litany of Righteousness x2
3rd - Paladin's Sacrifice x2

Skills:
Diplomacy (11 ranks)
Intimidate (11 ranks)
Knowledge: Arcana (1 rank)
Knowledge: Nature (1 rank)
Knowledge: Planes (1 rank)
Knowledge: Religion (1 rank)

High AC, ridiculous saves, tons of immunities, energy resistances, defensive buffs for your allies, the ability to take hits and damage for your allies, an insane amount of swift-action self-healing, the ability to remove conditions, as many Smites as you need to hammer your foes and some very useful spells. You can even raise the dead. Out of combat, he still has some interesting skill options for such a skill-starved character.

I play the character as a two-hander, something you'd want if you were going for a reach build. He's in no way dependent on gear but some of the gear you might want to consider is mithril full plate, winged boots, 2nd level Pearls of Power (for Litany of Righteousness) and all of the usual acoutrement.

Grand Lodge

Guntank 5/Hellknight X. There are few things that in-character are quite as terrifying. In terms of mechanics they're solid enough.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Atarlost and Darigaaz the Igniter,

As I said I like the idea, but I do have significant reservations about it, and I offer alternatives in the event that does not work out for our readers.

You're free to believe it would be houseruled against or even that it's not RAI, but you said you didn't think it was RAW and that's demonstrably false.


Well, I don't really want to spend the time to convert him, but I've essentially done this in PFS (Xue) with a Nagaji Cavalier (Beast Rider, Gendarme, Honor Guard), Fighter (Dragoon), Monk (Sacred Mountain, Master of Many Styles). Order of the Dragon (naturally), and he is versed in both snake style and dragon style.

The plan is to take some more fighter and cavalier levels, and then mammoth rider to nab a dinosaur mount. Boon companion for a full-level animal companion. His weird mishmash of classes plentiful feats, plus racial abilities make him pretty resilient with a potentially very good AC depending on the armor and decent saves. He has some "per day" abilities, but not really built around them. He not only is a front line but hands out AC bonuses as well via bodyguard. A little light on pure offense, but his animal companion helps compensate a bit.


I have a variant of the paladin tiefling build that i play in PFS. Instead of tiefling I went Nagaji and instead of full Paladin w/Oracle I went Paladin 4 (Oathes of Vengeance and vs Fiends) / Bard 1 (Arcane duelist) / Dragon Disciple 5.

I took Fey Foundling, Extra Lay on Hands, Greater Mercy and Ultimate Mercy. Also bought a Bracers of the Merciful Knight which offers a huge boost to my # of lay on hands per day (with his very high CHA and feats he gets 12 uses a day for 4d4 +8 and usually 1d6+2 more from greater mercy (I think the example above has the math on the lay on hands wrong - he should be getting 5d6 +10 not +20 (not sure where his extra +10 comes from)

His Dragon Disciple levels means he has a REALLY high STR. He wears heavy armor so his AC is very good (with great natural AC as well). His spells are almost all w/o somatic components so he can cast while in full armor and he's both a divine and an arcane caster w/high CHA and a great UMD skill.

He's also a LOT of fun to play - highly effective at hitting things and he can self heal for more than 2x his base HP. Plus between arcane strike, DD abilities and his smite when he needs to he hits really really hard (and then bites for good measure). And while he is definitely a paladin - he's far from a typical one (his god is Apsu).

The build as I play it does benefit strongly from a single specific magic item but even without that item it is a very flavorful and fun (and mechanically potent) build. And between his Bard spells, Dragon Disciple abilities etc he has a lot of tricks and out of combat utility. Plus he has the saves of a Paladin with a high CHA.

At level 12 he'll get form of the dragon if I continue with Dragon Disciple levels. Which should be a lot of fun (arcane striking, power attacking w/ a smiting dragon = world of hurt for something evil.


Rycaut wrote:

I have a variant of the paladin tiefling build that i play in PFS. Instead of tiefling I went Nagaji and instead of full Paladin w/Oracle I went Paladin 4 (Oathes of Vengeance and vs Fiends) / Bard 1 (Arcane duelist) / Dragon Disciple 5.

I took Fey Foundling, Extra Lay on Hands, Greater Mercy and Ultimate Mercy. Also bought a Bracers of the Merciful Knight which offers a huge boost to my # of lay on hands per day (with his very high CHA and feats he gets 12 uses a day for 4d4 +8 and usually 1d6+2 more from greater mercy (I think the example above has the math on the lay on hands wrong - he should be getting 5d6 +10 not +20 (not sure where his extra +10 comes from)

The extra +10 comes from the Tiefling FCB for Paladins (Favored Class Bonus) that grants +1 point per level to Lay on Hands when used to heal yourself only. At 1st level he didn't have Lay on Hands so he took the bonus hit point and at 3rd level (his Oracle level) he didn't get an FCB. The other 10 levels are where the extra +10 came from.

Bracers of the Merciful Knight would be an item I'd recommend for this build as well, but obviously that just adds to his already formidable abilities.

According to PFS rules, the character would have 99 hit points without magical gear. Without magical gear he'd be able to heal an average of 487.5 hit points per day without ever having to miss an attack or move action. With Bracers of the Merciful Knight that ups to 7d6+24 15/day or an average of 727.5 hit points per day. None of that includes Greater Mercy which would be another 71.5 - 82.5 per day. I'd say that makes for a hell of a tank.

All those extra Smites + Power Attack and having a couple of Litanies in his pocket really makes him hit hard enough that he's dangerous to ignore. Its good not to have to ration his Smites and with so many opportunities for Swift/Immediate actions, I'm glad I don't have to figure out when to Arcane Strike and when not to. Powerful Justice is a hell of an ability as well; giving everyone in the party +11 damage vs. an evil enemy of their choice is pretty sweet.

Not knocking your build at all - it certainly sounds like fun - but I'm just talking with regards to tanking for the OP.


Atarlost wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Atarlost and Darigaaz the Igniter,

As I said I like the idea, but I do have significant reservations about it, and I offer alternatives in the event that does not work out for our readers.

You're free to believe it would be houseruled against or even that it's not RAI, but you said you didn't think it was RAW and that's demonstrably false.

Thank you for your permission, but you have not demonstrated that what I'm saying is false by RAW.

Buckler, d20pfsrd wrote:
In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's Armor Class bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's Armor Class bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.

Darigaaz is talking about using a Buckler in the same arm as he is using to attack with, and normally, there is a problem with that. He can do it: make his attack then draw his shield, but he will have to wait until the next round to get his AC bonus from his shield. Keeping your shield benefit or starting to get that benefit without waiting requires some kind of special ability.

Thunderstriker, d20pfsprd wrote:
Buckler Defense (Ex): At 15th level, a thunderstriker retains partial use of his buckler even when using a weapon in both hands or in each hand (rather than losing his shield bonus until the beginning of his next turn).... At 19th level, a thunderstriker does not forfeit his shield bonus to AC from a buckler when fighting two-handed. This ability replaces armor mastery.

And his build doesn't have one. He's also talking about getting around this by using a heavier shield (a Light Shield is heavier than a Buckler). But you aren't even supposed to be able to use another weapon at all when you use a shield heavier than a Buckler! I can't believe any PFS player won't run into a large number of PFS GMs who won't allow it.

For Darigaaz's build in particular, it's not a big problem: it doesn't wreck his build. His character is slightly less flexible than he intended. It's still an Inquisitor and has lots of flexibility, lots of skills, spells, a Domain, good in combat. It just means he has to wait a round to get his shield benefits when changing his mind about 2 handing his weapon vs drawing his shield. Personally, I think he should commit to one or the other. Get a Heavy Shield and forget about 2-handing or get a 2 handed weapon and forget about his shield, but that's just me.

I'm trying to be helpful here. I've offered lots of alternatives and fixes so that a build like Darigaaz's can still benefit from a shield and both hands to attack with: gaining the Shield Spell and maybe a Wand of Shield via either the Defense Subdomain of Protection or a level in Magus, 2 levels in Alchemist and a Vestigial Arm, Shield Bashing with Improved Shield Bash, using weapon and shield and using Improved Unarmed Strike as an off-hand attack, and an animated shield.


I have yet another suggestion for a fix so that a build like Darigaaz's can still benefit from 2-handing a weapon and keep up a shield bonus to AC. Shield is also an Alchemist Extract. There is a Feat called Potion Glutton which allow you to drink "any potable" as a Swift Action.

So for another suggestion for a Tank character, I offer the trick of taking 1 or more levels in Alchemist, 2 fisting some big weapon like a Greatsword or an Earthbreaker, and taking the Potion Glutton Feat. Do lots of Great Cleaving, and enjoy a +4 Shield Bonus to AC.

Great Cleave is a Standard Action, recall. So you might down your Shield Extract as a Swift Action, your Strength Mutagen as a Move Action (provoking attacks of opportunity, but oh, well), and then Great Cleaving as a Standard Action.

There are other feats which let you drink fast or without provoking attacks of opportunity.

Or you might let provoking AoO's just be a part of your thing: take Broken Wing Gambit via 3 levels in Inquisitor.

This would work with my build, too. I should take Potion Glutton sooner than later, discard my shield, use Shield as a Swift Action or via a Wand, then just use both Claws!


Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Here is a build I intended for PFS

I have a few builds like this. I like MAD builds anyway.
St14
In12
Wis14
Dex16
Con13
Cr10

Level 1, Ranger1: Freebooter, Weapon Focus Claws
2R1Monk1: Master of Many Styles, Snake Style, Unarmed Damage 1d6
3R1M2: Evasion, Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes
4R1M2Fighter1: Feral Combat Training, Claws, +1 Con
5R1M3F1: Maneuver Training, Still Mind, Monastic Legacy
6R2M3F1: Improved Natural Weapon, Claws
ally obtain a Wand of Monstrous Physique and Polymorph into a 4-armed Sahaugin, gaining 2...

Hey Scott, I notice you have 6 classes by 12th level. Now I'm really a fan of not seeing classes as classes-in-world and more as packages of mechanics to be flavored however you like, but how do you flavor this character? Part ranger, part monk, part fighter, part alchemist, part witch, part cavalier. I'm very interested to know the story that ties this together.


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Invulnerable Rager Barbarian with Flesh Wound Rage Power. 1/rage, you can Fort save against the damage of a single attack, and if you succeed, the damage is halved and turned to nonlethal, which your DR is doubly effective against. It's entirely possible to outright negate the damage from an attack this way, especially since your Fort save is the highest among all the classes.

Combine this with Come and Get Me and Rage Cycling (I perfer the Internal Fortitude Rage Power with a Flawed Scarlet and Green Cabochon, myself) and you can provoke attacks that you can negate on your turn while gaining extra attacks of your own. This works especially well if you use maneuvers you aren't proficient with (and with Strength Surge, they'll still hit, too). Specifically Disarm, Trip, and Sunder though, as other maneuvers require standard actions instead of attacks.

Despite being a Barbarian, you don't have to have poor AC, either. Barbarians get access to Natural Armor through their class, and can even get Dodge bonuses (though these require a move action to activate I believe). Because of this, you can actually have comparable or even greater AC to an equivalent Fighter, if you so choose.

On top of this, you can have great saves against spells, spell-like abilities, and even supernatural effects through Superstition, and great Touch AC against rays and incorporeal with Ghost Rager. Most importantly though, you can Sunder Spells, which is an amazing boon for a martial class (and can also be combined with Strength Surge for automatic success).

Barbarians also have a host of other rage powers that allow them to get extra health when they fall low, ignore ability damage, or even ignore negative levels, but those are fairly limited in scope, so I won't suggest them as "must haves" when there are a bunch of other things Barbarians could have instead.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

No one's mentioned anything like this yet, so I'll throw out a variant of the tank I run in PFS.

Human Flowing Monk 10 / Staff Magus 2

For Feats you'll want Combat Reflexes/Bodyguard, and then Feat Tree up through Greater Trip or Greater Reposition (or both) depending on playstyle. Arcane Strike (especially if you can pick up the Gloves of Arcane Striking).

Spells: Enlarge Person and Shocking Grasp for sure. At least one Touch cantrip.

What's the point:
Flowing Monk gives you a level/day interrupt for any attack against you *or* an adjacent ally. If you have reach, you can usually use that to either trip the enemy so they can't get into attack range or reposition them out of their attack range (And with Greater Trip/Reposition they get AoO'd for their trouble.) And you get bonuses to your CMB if they are charging or Power Attacking.

Flowing Monk also increases your AC for every adjacent enemy, and when you are flanked you can make your enemies attack each other. This is a tank class that thrives on savvy positioning and which plays very differently than most other characters -- being able to function as a tank even when not being directly targeted is generally hard to pull off in Pathfinder.

You also have fabulous saves.

The Staff Magus levels do a couple of things:

free Quarterstaff Mastery -- and the ability to Spellstrike through trips
Quarterstaff is a monk weapon, so you can flurry with it
Arcane Pool can be used on Unarmed Attacks
Just enough offensive punch to avoid the usual Monk tank problem of having the enemies ignore you. Spellstrike just once and they'll worry about you all day.

It's certainly possible to change the class ratio -- another level of Staff Magus would give you an Arcana (Wand Wielder is great) and with Magical Knack increasaes your CL to 5 (upping Arcane Strike). The character I run is FM 4 / SM 6 which makes her a little less tanky but packing more of a punch -- really depends on what you want.


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Here is a build I intended for PFS

I have a few builds like this. I like MAD builds anyway.
St14
In12
Wis14
Dex16
Con13
Cr10

Level 1, Ranger1: Freebooter, Weapon Focus Claws
2R1Monk1: Master of Many Styles, Snake Style, Unarmed Damage 1d6
3R1M2: Evasion, Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes
4R1M2Fighter1: Feral Combat Training, Claws, +1 Con
5R1M3F1: Maneuver Training, Still Mind, Monastic Legacy
6R2M3F1: Improved Natural Weapon, Claws
ally obtain a Wand of Monstrous Physique and Polymorph into a 4-armed Sahaugin, gaining 2...

Hey Scott, I notice you have 6 classes by 12th level. Now I'm really a fan of not seeing classes as classes-in-world and more as packages of mechanics to be flavored however you like, but how do you flavor this character? Part ranger, part monk, part fighter, part alchemist, part witch, part cavalier. I'm very interested to know the story that ties this together.

Role playing and backstory is often a continuing process for me. Usually, I need to get to know my character by playing with him or her a little before I know where he or she comes from. But that is before level 1. After level 1, I will know exactly what the character's story is because I will have role played her.

I have a PFS character kind of like this, a half orc with the grappling. I just sort of picked the name Olga Blakovitch, named after a personality I saw on the Internet. I sort of parceled together a backstory based on what I knew of Orcs and Half-Orcs of Golorion, the fact that I gave her the Sacred Tatoos trait, the fact that she was going to have some levels in Cavalier, things like that. I cobbled together the story that her biological father was a prisoner of war given to an orcish princess and subsequently died in--ahem--captivity. I gave her social, orcish father the name General Grawlix Blakovitch the Unspeakable, mostly because I like the word "grawlix."

They say that haf-orc breeding is somewhat encouraged in orc tribes because half orcs tend to be smarter, so the was apprenticed to a shaman who gave her the tattoos.

Olga Blakovitch wrote:
"Shaman say he likes tattoos because it hides bruising."

Initially, I was going to give her the Shaman's Apprentice Trait so she could wear medium armor, but later I decided to keep her in light armor and use Evasion.

Other things about her backstory just sort of fell into place to explain a life of adventuring with the Pathfinder Society.

This character build I just posted? Because I want to develop Armor Spikes as a way of inflicting damage while Grappling, I was thinking of naming this character Dia Zerva the Iron Maiden, cause an Iron Maiden is a torture machine with spikes.

I am seeing her as sort of an extreme athlete who takes levels in Alchemist as a metaphor for performance enhancing drugs. You need to worship Uragothoa to take Potion Glutton. She is a Death Goddess, but she is also the goddess of Excess. In Dia's case excessive training and an attitude that you do anything to win. Getting Expert Captor at later levels will reflect a tempering of maturity, recognizing the striving for perfection is not just for herself, but for others. But once again, I will have to get to know her.

One of my other characters I alluded to will be named Father Maxwell Mackenzie. He will use Thunder and Fang and a combination of Shield Slam, Greater Bull Rush, Paired Opportunist and Combat Reflexes to loop Attacks of Opportunity with his Bashing Klar. He will gain Paired Opportunist through 3 levels in Inquisitor, and take 2 more levels to get Bane, because, why not? His Earthbreaker will be Alchemal Silver, hence his name. He is named after to Beatle's songs: Maxwell's Silver Hammer and Father MacKenzie. I don't know what he will be like, but I am looking forward to getting to know him.

My Phalanx Soldier will tentatively be called Hester Estrella. I've been wanting to name a character after Lee Ann Hester, the woman who won the Silver Star in Afghanistan.

My Monktopus Character so far is named Hanna Dory. Hanna is a small town in Hawaii, and a Dory is a kind of small boat. She's going to be a blonde, elven surfer girl, who just might turn coyote ugly on you if try playing rough.

Anyway, that should give you an idea about my thought process of roleplaying, backstory, and how they connect with the mechanics of the character build.

Verdant Wheel

Wiggz wrote:

This is the build for the 'tank' I run in PFS, customized to suit your criteria...

Tiefling (Pitborn)

Question: Where is the info for alternate Tiefling types? I have Bastards of Erebus, but the rolling for random traits seems off. Has this been changed somehow? Cheers.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
rainzax wrote:
Wiggz wrote:

This is the build for the 'tank' I run in PFS, customized to suit your criteria...

Tiefling (Pitborn)

Question: Where is the info for alternate Tiefling types? I have Bastards of Erebus, but the rolling for random traits seems off. Has this been changed somehow? Cheers.

Blood of Fiends

Grand Lodge

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Tanking is one of those roles that is difficult to pull off in PF but this one I have used and had a lot of fun with in PFS, but this one is includes some non PFS abilities. This tank doesn't come online til later but at level 12 he is great.

Half-Orc Blight Druid 11, Sohei Monk 1 Eagle Domain

S 10 D 14 C 14 I 12 W 22 Ch 10

Traits Fates Favored, Magical Knack Druid

Feats:
Dodge (B)
Shaping Focus
Natural Spell
Snake Style
Powerful Shape
Craft Wondrous Items
Ability Focus Whirlwind

Basic Premise is you run around as Huge Air Elemental, (5/day, 12 hour each), Make your own magic items (Headband of Wisdom, Ioun stones, Stat Belts etc.) Defensively you are immune to Disease, Sickened, Nauseated, Crits, Sneak Attack, Bleed, have DR 5/-, Immune to Poison via Spell, can create an Ioun Stone to make you immune to Fatigue/Exhaustion and have Evasion.

You tank via whirlwind (DC 25 before items, can boost to 28 with a headband easy) and pick stuff up and hold it aloft. Anything in your Whirlwind must make a Fort Save (DC 21, + with wis headband) or be Sickened (disease effect so it works on most outsiders) and at -2 to attack and -4 dex. Plus any other debuffs from spells.

Between Barkskin (extended with a rod you make), Huge Air Elemental Form, Wis to AC you can have a great AC, plus a very high Sense Motive check for attacks that roll high or those annoying touch spells. You can pick up huge creatures (In PFS I have juggled Hill Giants, Stone Golems, Girallons and lots of humanoids, swarms and oozes).

You always go in the surprise round (great for getting buffs up), are still a primary caster with 6th level spells (all sorts of toys you can play with, buff your attacks w/Greater Magic Fang, Vine Strike, Sickening Strikes) running around with a Liveoak, Staffspell and can have fun with Fireseeds plus Resist Energy, walk up to someone and do 8d8+96 fire, Ref Save, no SR.


Taenia wrote:
Between Barkskin (extended with a rod you make), Huge Air Elemental Form, Wis to AC you can have a great AC, plus a very high Sense Motive check for attacks that roll high or those annoying touch spells. You can pick up huge creatures (In PFS I have juggled Hill Giants, Stone Golems, Girallons and lots of humanoids, swarms and oozes).

An air elemental with skin made of bark?

;-P

Scarab Sages

For Hit Points, you can take a level in a class with a Familiar, the Boon Companion feat, and the Protector Familiar Archetype.

Your familiar will have half your hit points, and you can choose to transfer half the damage you take to your familiar at any time that takes no action.


Idk if anyone posted this, but i was looking at a monk. Master of the empty hand/master of the Sacred Mountain. Human, attribute boost too wisdom and dex. Give him weapon finesse too add dex too unarmed, and can get him too 19AC w/o items at lvl 1. Also, with Sacred Mountain abilities, if you start and end your turn in the same space, you gain an extra +4 AC.


If by "tanking", you mean drawing attacks away from my allies and mitigating the damage, then it's really hard to beat a dedicated summoner at that job. Of course many classes can make strong summonses.


Melkiador wrote:
If by "tanking", you mean drawing attacks away from my allies and mitigating the damage, then it's really hard to beat a dedicated summoner at that job. Of course many classes can make strong summonses.

That's true. Though a tank AND a summoner of some sort pretty much equal 'win'.


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Not really a "tank" per se, but if the purpose is to mitigate damage dealt, then what about the ultimate long time healer?

Greater Skald's Vigour + Raging Song + Lesser Celestial Totem + Path of Glory = ludicrous amount of healing per turn.

This ges better if you spent your first level as a Bloodrager with the Aberrant bloodline, cuz now you can take the Aberrant Familiar feat for a Tumor Familiar. Choose the Valet archetype for your familiar, so it can share teamwork feats. Get the feat "Amplified Rage." You now have a +8 STR and CON during your Inspire Rage, as well has fast healing 8 (+ your skald level arguably, which is insane). With Path of glory, you add 1 + 11 hp to that for 11 rounds. Basically Fast Healing 20.

Altogether, that's a good 220 HP per ally over the course of the spell. With this, it doesn't matter who the opponent attacks. None of you are going down.


Paizo only, or is 3rd party acceptable?


Gambit,

He didn't specify, so I guess all d20 is legal. Favor us with your Thrikreen Jedi Gaurdian with Advanced Firearms Proficiency, Combat Brute, Knockdown, Pushback, and Greater Sunder who uses a Final Word broadsword.


thanks for all the responds, i am responding one by one :


Bandw2 wrote:

combat reflexes with combat patron, high dex, agile maneuvers with trip, provide a large screen and use a reach weapon and trip everything.

class: probably lore warden for bonus to CMB.

the best tank is the one who makes it really hard to get hit.

... World of Tanks taught me that.

high dex can only work with fighter, the issue there is low DPR - so you are ignored if maneuvers wont work.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:

Halfling Arcane Duelist 11/Swash 1

Str:8
Dex:19
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:12
Cha:16

1: Weapon Finesse/ Weapon Focus:Rapier
2: Arcane Strike*
3: Fencing Grace / Combat Casting*
4: +1 Dex
5: Step Up
6: Following Step
7: Disruptive*
8: +1 Dex
9: Step Up and Strike
10:
11: Great Fortitude / Spellbreaker*
12: +1 Dex

Traits: Fate's Favored / Armor Expert (great at low levels b4 medium armor prof for a mithril breastplate - okay later)

Durable it's got - extremely solid will/reflex saves, very solid AC, and decent fort saves (+2 luck bonus to all saves). Not to mention any buff spells. (mirror image / saving finale etc) Also - the 1st level was in Swash - giving access to deed. (parry etc.)

The damage will be respectable, and between that, spellcasting, and Inspire Courage, they can't really be ignored. It's especially good against spellcasters from 7+, though Step Up can be hilarious against reach weapon users and solid against any archers without access to Point Blank Shot.

Finally - it's a bard (albeit one who gave up Bardic Knowledge) - its ability out of combat is obvious.

(The 1 level dip into Swashbuckler is optional.)

nice one, wont the bard be, a bit fragile?

low AC, low HP etc.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

My favorite frontliner build that typically is thought to be a "tank" is a bloodrager as well here is the breakdown of the Build:

** spoiler omitted **...

between spells and bloodrager power it's indeed a formidable tank!

fun to play even in off combat and not relaying on a 1\day ability or items.
nice


Melkiador wrote:

A properly built Life Oracle can "tank" fairly well. If something doesn't attack you, you just heal the damage it did. If something does attack you, then you heal the damage it did. Max Constitution and Charisma.

That said, I'm personally really liking the Slayer's Dirty Tricks Build for tanking.
** spoiler omitted **...

how is the slayer better than lore warden X\thug 3?


Seranov wrote:

Any build that doesn't have access to magic items is going to be outright garbage after a certain point.

But, assuming access to normal magic items (armor, weapons, etc.) the Warder from Path of War is still the most interesting and effective "tank" in PF that is actually designed to fill the archetypal tanking role. Between Defensive Focus, which is pretty much Int-based Combat Reflexes with Combat Patrol built in (which you can use from level 1) and a wide array of Initiating abilities, it deals and takes damage like it gets paid for it.

i was misunderstood.

i didnt mean NO magical items
in my games, there is no create or buying of items.
yet, it's not a low magic world - the total worth is what it should be - just the items aren't "custom made" .
we like the idea of keeping the magical - magic.
so, no build that require a specific item will work. ofc, all gain items, armor and weapons.
those who learn to use long sword have 100% more chance of finding a magical blade over someone who took Falcata.


DocShock wrote:

I'm a big fan of the Stone Lord Paladin (Dwarf Specific Archetype)

The biggest drawback of the Stalwart Defender's Defensive Stance is that you can't move. With this archetype, you can take a mercy that lets you clear the fatigued penalty as a swift action. That means in one turn you can end your stance, clear your fatigued condition, move, resume the stance, and attack someone. It's pretty solid.

You'll have a few abilities that let you do more damage a few times a day, but you get to be really tough between DR/Adamanine and the built in progression that allows you to ignore crits and sneak attacks. Couple this with automatic Dwarven Dorn-Dergar proficiency and you can lock down choke-points really hard. Take the Darting Viper feat to let you switch the DDD between close range and reach, and wallop anything in your range. You can take lunge to let you whack enemies at the 15' range as well. There's even a feat that lets you one-hand the DDD, potentially allowing you to wield a shield in your off hand. Plus, lay on hands is a swift action, letting you cure yourself frequently. The build is especially devastating if you get someone on your party to cast enlarge person on you, making your reach stupidly far with the DDD.

paladins are indeed amazing.

the only down side is the hard time sometimes, to fit in a group.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Quote:
Any build that doesn't have access to magic items is going to be outright garbage after a certain point.
I definitely second this opinion.
Third - though I believe that the OP probably just meant that the build can't rely upon a specific magic item to function.

exactly.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Here is a build I intended for PFS

I have a few builds like this. I like MAD builds anyway.
St14
In12
Wis14
Dex16
Con13
Cr10

Level 1, Ranger1: Freebooter, Weapon Focus Claws
2R1Monk1: Master of Many Styles, Snake Style, Unarmed Damage 1d6
3R1M2: Evasion, Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes
4R1M2Fighter1: Feral Combat Training, Claws, +1 Con
5R1M3F1: Maneuver Training, Still Mind, Monastic Legacy
6R2M3F1: Improved Natural Weapon, Claws

Claws at level 1 compare favorably with other weapons, when you bear in mind that you get your strength bonus for each attack, not just 1, and a Tengu with Claws also gets a Bite Attack. 3(1d3+2) for 12 points of damage. If this character used a Greatsword at level 1, she would do 2d6+3 for 10 points of damage. Instead, she might carry a longbow, shooting all she wants, and just using her natural attacks when she closes to melee, no need even to drop the bow.

With Feral Combat Training, the Claw damage does 1d6 at level 4, with Monastic Legacy, 1d8 at level 5, and with Improved Natural Attack, 2d6 at level 6.

Snake Fang is an Attack of Opportunity hair trigger, you get an AoO every time someone attacks you and misses. With a Dex of 13, that can be 4 AoO's/round + an Immediate Action attack also granted by Snake Fang. That is on top of the regular attack routine of 2 Claws and a Beak, maybe even an Unarmed Strike or 2, depending on the circumstances.

This character will begin using a shield by level 3 and will eventually wear a Mithril Agile Breastplate, probably with Armor Spikes. Since MOMS Monks don't get Flurry of Blows anyway, there is no reason not to wear Armor. But she'll keep the armor light to enjoy Evasion.

Losing 1 of the Claw Attacks to wield a shield hurts, but since most of this character's attacks are AoO's granted by being MISSED in melee, it's really the way to go. You lose 1 attack, but gain 5. Meanwhile, this character might eventually obtain a Wand of Monstrous Physique and Polymorph into a 4-armed Sahaugin, gaining 2...

very creative!

and again , a nice build to play in and out of war.


here are a few build i gathered :

ghost tank:

hungry ghost X \ cleric crusader 1 (taken lvl 3) of Shizuru
STR build, the down side, until the levels you gain the HP drain - your AC is low.
slowly, with some style feats you can alter it .
str 15 +2 1/2 orc (17) lvl 8,12,16
dex 13 lvl 4 +1
con 14
wis 14
int 14
cha 10
traits:
-UMD
-fate's favorite

feats:
1- imp unarmed strike (B), imp grapple (B), crane style
2- Dodge (B), Evasion or Toughness* (if of the mountain archetype)
3- Weapon Focus (Katana) (bonus) +- Crusader’s Flurry
5-power attack
6-imp trip
7-Crape wing
9-Crane Riposte
10-spring attack
11- greater grapple

the idea is the crit a lot, and drain Ki and HP of the foe.
deflection of crane chain offer a another layer.
supreme saves with orc and monk, self restoration, self heals, temp hp, good movement.

another way to go is go all out on wisdom, lowering the DPR but with
Channel Smite, Guided Hand your to hit stay top - and than your AC is also high.


Lore warden X \ thug 3:

lvl 1,2 lore warden, than 3 of thug, than go back to fighter.
human
str 15 +2 1/2 orc (17) lvl 8,12,16
dex 13 lvl 4 +1
con 14
wis 10
int 13
cha 15

traits :
bred for war : +1 CMB
the trait that add +2 to one maneuver.

feats:
1 lore-power attack (B),Enforcer or cornogun Smash (1), skill focus intimidate (human).
2 lore-Expertise (B), imp dirty trick
3 thug-dodge
4 thug- >>> rogue talent
5 thug- Spear Dancer, mobility
6 lore- +2 CMB
7 lore-grt dirty trick, quick dirty trick (B)
8 lore- skill focus stealth (H)
9 lore-spring attack, eldritch heritage shadow
10 monk, maneuver master 1 - imp trip , imp unarmed.
11 lore- greater eldritch heritage shadow (hide in plain sight)
12- greater trip
13-Dazing assault

later on take whirlwind attack or Lunge, and grapple.

the idea is to make the foe go home crying.
sicken, shaken, blind, feared, dazed....
all work with full attacks or with spring attack while you disappear.
it's a bit more commando than tank - but a foe that cant attack back is a goner.
lvl 10 you can either spring attack in and back into the shadows - self taking a stronger foe or stand and tank.
full attack action with a reach weapon seem like this:
free (monk) dirty trick = blink
first attack -trip, the AOO = another dirty trick for entangle.
all other attacks hit = sicken and feared or shaken and dazzled.
with the rogue adding -2 the foe cant ever hit back.


druid:

dip 1 into monk for armor .
best pet is a grapple one , like a roc or trex.
saurain shaman is best for summonsing.
learn greater grapple, use animals with poison, trip, grab .
add earth elemental attacking from the floor or air from whirlwind.
plant offer 60' reach and many attacks,

another weird option is Goliath .
troll add regeneration, reach, rock throwing and able to wield weapon and armor.


mounted fury \ oracle 1 :

oracle of nature offer a pet with int of 6.
also, lame makes you fatigue immune.

mounted fury offer team feats and spell sunder.
also, amazing saves and burst cmb.
you got a pet (1/2 orc makes a cool list like rhino or petrosaur), great saves (fate's favorite), read scrolls, spell sunder for attakcing casters.
nice overall.


Druids can be very tanky once they start to shapeshift.

At 12th level a Goliath Druid with:
Half Orc Goliath Druid 12
Str:16 (+3 lvl advancement)
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:14
Cha:10
1: Dodge
2:
3: Heavy Armor
4:
5: Impoved Natural Armor
6:
7: Shield Focus
8:
9: Combat Reflexes
10:
11: Stand Still
12:

Could shapshift into a Moss Troll all day long. He gets 15' reach with his scimitar, +6 Str -2 Dex +4 Con, and +8 Natural armor (including Half-Orc favored class bonus), plus he can wear a Dragonhide Full Plate normally, even shapeshifted (because he's a troll). He also gain Regeneration.

Without a lot of hassle, you could have a +3 Full Plate, +3 large wooden Shield, Barkskin almost all day long (using a lesser rod of extend, 3 level 2 slots cover you for 6 hours), a Jingasa (which fits nicely with the favored by destiny trait that you are going to take anyway because of your +1 luck bonus racial tattoo), a +2 or +3 ring of protection and maybe a ioun stone with +1 insight bonus to AC. You'll have AC 10+12 armor bonus + 6 shield bonus + 14 natural armor bonus +1 Dex +1 Dodge +2 luck +3 deflection +1 insight -1 size, for AC 49 at lvl 12, which is decent. You also have good Will and Fort saves (you'll pump wisdom with items, and Con with wildshaping polymorph bonus), Con 18 plus items, and regeneration makes you extra tough. You'll need to keep fire resist covered, though, because moss troll is vulnerable, or shapeshift into Rock Troll instead, although you'll miss 5' of reach compared to a Moss Troll. Or you could shapeshift into Desert Giant, if you want some fire resist (but you won't regenerate).

15' reach and stand still make for some decent area control. You could get that online at lvl 6, changing the order of the feats.

You have also a pet, which helps tanking (a stegosaurus or anylosaurus is pretty good in AC and have reach and special attacks that daze or trip, and barding is cheap. Access to medium armor cost feats to your pet, not you, and a non-magical breastplate adds +6 armor to him, who already has a huge natural armor bonus, +19 at that level. That's AC 38, counting only Dex and armor bonus. It can go higher if you cast Barkskin on him, and higher if the pet burns a few feats in dodge and imp nat armor). A Menacing amulet of mighty fist will help you and every other melee in the team, which is really good. I think many party members would contribute to it if you ask them.

EDIT: Just read your "low magic" stuff. Well, then of course without +3 magic items the numbers would be lower, but they will be for other classes as well. The class doesn't need any magic item to "work", and can use pretty much anything. You can also ignore amulets of natural armor (Because of barkskin), and you get some nice Nat Armor from shapeshifting and half-orc favored class bonus.


I'm partial to my basic Druid/Monk Split. At lvl 12 it works out to:

Druid 8 (Saurian Shaman/Lion Shaman) / Monk 4 (MoMS, Monk of the Sacred Mountain)

With Monastic Legacy, you hit as an 8th level Monk (1d10) and if you are wildshaped into something Huge, then it does a pretty decent 4d8 damage (8d8 if you are casting one of your two castings of Strong Jaw).

Planar Wildshape makes sure that you have continual DR 10 vs either good or evil (I'd choose good personally, as most of enemies aren't likely to have holy weapons unless something has gone off the rails)in animal form.

Lvl 4 Monk of the Sacred Mountain means you can't be moved or knocked prone, which is jolly useful as a Tank. (You have to remain in the same square, but with 15ft reach, this actually isn't much of a chore)

Stats would be like:

Versatile Human (Shapeshifted into Allosaurus):

Str 26 (+2 From lvl, +6 from WS)
Dex 6 (-4 from WS)
Con 14 (+1 from lvl)
Int 12
Wis 18
Cha 10

Feats would be:

Lvl 1: Improved Grapple (1st), Dragon Style (Monk Bonus)
Lvl 3: Weapon Focus (Claw) (3rd)
Lvl 5: Feral Combat Training (Claw) (5th)
Lvl 7: Natural Spell (7th)
Lvl 9: Planar Wild Shape (9th), Dragon Ferocity (Monk Bonus), Toughness (Monk Bonus)
Lvl 11: Monastic Legacy (11th)

Reasonably good at all levels. Has druid buffs and a decently leveled pet dinosaur.

prototype00


prototype00 wrote:

I'm partial to my basic Druid/Monk Split. At lvl 12 it works out to:

Druid 8 (Saurian Shaman/Lion Shaman) / Monk 4 (MoMS, Monk of the Sacred Mountain)

With Monastic Legacy, you hit as an 8th level Monk (1d10) and if you are wildshaped into something Huge, then it does a pretty decent 4d8 damage (8d8 if you are casting one of your two castings of Strong Jaw).

Planar Wildshape makes sure that you have continual DR 10 vs either good or evil (I'd choose good personally, as most of enemies aren't likely to have holy weapons unless something has gone off the rails)in animal form.

Lvl 4 Monk of the Sacred Mountain means you can't be moved or knocked prone, which is jolly useful as a Tank. (You have to remain in the same square, but with 15ft reach, this actually isn't much of a chore)

Stats would be like:

Versatile Human (Shapeshifted into Allosaurus):

Str 26 (+2 From lvl, +6 from WS)
Dex 6 (-4 from WS)
Con 14 (+1 from lvl)
Int 12
Wis 18
Cha 10

Feats would be:

Lvl 1: Improved Grapple (1st), Dragon Style (Monk Bonus)
Lvl 3: Weapon Focus (Claw) (3rd)
Lvl 5: Feral Combat Training (Claw) (5th)
Lvl 7: Natural Spell (7th)
Lvl 9: Planar Wild Shape (9th), Dragon Ferocity (Monk Bonus), Toughness (Monk Bonus)
Lvl 11: Monastic Legacy (11th)

Reasonably good at all levels. Has druid buffs and a decently leveled pet dinosaur.

prototype00

Why 4 and not 1 level monk?

The bab / to hit wont be an issue?
Wont it be better as earth elemeental? Earth glide from floor.


Better unarmed strike damage (Monastic Legacy requires Still Mind), the ability not to be knocked prone or moved from spot (requires lvl 4 Monk of the Sacred Mountains), Toughness (its a nice bonus feat for a 2nd level Monk of the Sacred Mountain).

Earth Elemental is all right, but I prefer the DR 10 of planar wildshape (requires animal form) to the DR 5 of Earth Elemental. Allosaurus also has better attack options (pounce/rake) than the Earth Elemental.

As far as buffing is concerned, best Druid spells (GMF, Strong Jaw) are in place by lvl 4 spells. No need to kill yourself for spells that aren't directly related to "Tankiness"

prototype00

P.s. BaB wise, the Mnk 4/ Druid 8 has exactly the same to hit as Druid 12 and a better to hit than Mnk 1/ Druid 11.


I had the party face a single Monk with a level of Empyreal Sorcerer (Mage Armour, Shield & Pro vs Evil - with a wand) who was ridiculously hard to hit/grapple/etc, had good saves and laughed at magic missiles. Mobile and offensively good too. I'd play that.

I think RavingDork has a dwarf fighter character who has boosted his natural armour to silly levels, combined with Steel Soul/Glory of Old and so on that would make a very tough two handed weapon fighter (but not the most mobile).

An Oath of Vengeance Paladin who after first level always takes the extra lay on hands feat can end up with massive amounts of healing and large number of smites a day (but not so hot vs. non-evil opponents).


Cao Phen wrote:

For Hit Points, you can take a level in a class with a Familiar, the Boon Companion feat, and the Protector Familiar Archetype.

Your familiar will have half your hit points, and you can choose to transfer half the damage you take to your familiar at any time that takes no action.

This gets even better with a tumor familiar because those have fast healing 5 while attached to you.

I made a build some time ago for an abyssal bloodrager. It's a dwarf using a longhammer and a boulderhelmet and has an tumor octopus familiar attached to his chin (living in his beard).
The familiar can use bodyguard with combat reflexes several times per round, the dwarf can do nice damage, is tough and from level 5 on he can share damage with his fast healing familiar.
I build him as a spell eater to get fast healing and the ability to self heal as a swift action.


prototype00 wrote:

Better unarmed strike damage (Monastic Legacy requires Still Mind), the ability not to be knocked prone or moved from spot (requires lvl 4 Monk of the Sacred Mountains), Toughness (its a nice bonus feat for a 2nd level Monk of the Sacred Mountain).

Earth Elemental is all right, but I prefer the DR 10 of planar wildshape (requires animal form) to the DR 5 of Earth Elemental. Allosaurus also has better attack options (pounce/rake) than the Earth Elemental.

As far as buffing is concerned, best Druid spells (GMF, Strong Jaw) are in place by lvl 4 spells. No need to kill yourself for spells that aren't directly related to "Tankiness"

prototype00

P.s. BaB wise, the Mnk 4/ Druid 8 has exactly the same to hit as Druid 12 and a better to hit than Mnk 1/ Druid 11.

and a little bit of ki points as well.


You can also take the feat Shaping Focus which is only for multiclassed Druids and will boost your effective wild shape ability by 4 levels.


666bender wrote:
Melkiador wrote:

A properly built Life Oracle can "tank" fairly well. If something doesn't attack you, you just heal the damage it did. If something does attack you, then you heal the damage it did. Max Constitution and Charisma.

That said, I'm personally really liking the Slayer's Dirty Tricks Build for tanking.
** spoiler omitted **...

how is the slayer better than lore warden X\thug 3?

Slightly better BAB, Skills and HP, but basically because almost nothing is immune to dirty tricks. Even if something is immune to one of the types of dirty trick, you can just use a different kind. Also, you can go strength based, and use the talents to get all of the two weapon fighting attacks to trigger more dirty tricks.

Edit: Also as per the original limitations, the Slayer Dirty Tricks build can use just whatever good light and/or one-handed weapons you come across in your adventure, so you don't have to rely on keeping weapons of your weapon specialization path.

Sovereign Court

666bender wrote:


nice one, wont the bard be, a bit fragile?
low AC, low HP etc.

Why? It'd only be 11hp behind a standard d10 combatant - and the AC would be extremely solid.

Mithril Breastplate/heavy shield and extremely high dex. By 4ish when they can afford the mithril breastplate, their AC before any magic would be 24. (6 armor/5 dex/2 shield/1 size) By 12 it should be 38 pre-buffs without trying too hard. (+4 armor/shield/+1 jingasa/+1 ioun/+2 ring/+2 AoNA)
There are builds which higher AC (monk/some sword & board builds) but it'd be quite solid, especially combined with parry & riposte. (On second thought - you may consider squeezing Combat Reflexes into the build for that & to mesh with Step-Up.)

In addition - at level 4 if they have merely a masterwork weapon they'd hit at +12 for 1d4+7 (18-20) damage assuming their song is going. Not amazing - but enough where they can't be ignored, especially combined with all their buffing. Especially when in the face of a caster/archer.


Rycaut wrote:
You can also take the feat Shaping Focus which is only for multiclassed Druids and will boost your effective wild shape ability by 4 levels.

Still another option is to take any levels in a class that has Beast Shape on its spell lists. If you don't take enough levels to get the spell, you can still use a Wand of Beast Shape. Beast Shape 2 is a level 4 Alchemist Extract, so you can get a Wand and turn into Large Creatures. You could develop the Alchemal Tentacle the way I was describing developing Claws and Bites with Feral Combat Training and Improved Natural Attack. You can still get Snake Fang for the extra attacks of opportunity. When you acquire your Wand of Beast Shape 2, you can start turning into a Giant Octopus!

The Large size will make your tentacle attacks go up from 2d6 to 3d6, and now you get 8 of them, 12 if you count Snake Fang! Giant Octopi have Constrict in addition to Grab, so you get your 3d6 twice per tentacle! Take 1 level in Magus, so you can use a wand of Swift Girding. Have a suit of armor made for yourself for when you are in Octopus Form, Octopus Barding. Get Armor Spikes, and every successful Grab with your Tentacles will also do Armor Spike Damage, 1d8 for size Large. A Wand of Beat Shape 2 would have a duration of 7 minutes, plenty of time to finish most combats. Of course, you could skip that if you developed Claw Attacks, went for Monstrous Physique and polymorphed into a 4 armed sahaugin, since you would keep your armor. Monstrous Physique is only level 3, so it should be easier to get, but you only get 4 Claw attacks instead of 8 Tentacle Attacks and Bite, and you remain medium-sized. Choices, choices!

Polymorphing as an Alchemist has the advantage that since Alchemy is technically not spell casting, you can still use your extracts, bombs, and mutagen while Polymorphed. Natural Spell is not required.

Tentacles are always Secondary Natural Weapons, with a -5 to hit and 1/2 St bonus, so you should offset that by taking Multiattack, which knocks the penalty down to -2. You might take it early so you could use Multiatttack with some other Natural Weapon in conjunction with manufactured weapon attacks.

You would have a solid tank build by level 3 with most of the bells and whistles in place by level 9. And even if your character never acquires a wand of Swift Girding or Beast Shape2, it would still be most formidable.


If 3rd party material is allowed I was going to suggest a Warder, the only Pathfinder class I've encountered that makes playing a "tank" actually feasible and viable.


how do you get 3d6 on the tentacles? the normal giant octopus gets 1d4 on the tentacles

also you need Beast Shape III before you get Constrict

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