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One of my players wants to create an oracle that abuses Moonlight Bridge. I've read a few threads, but there's no conclusive answers. No developer has addressed this ability.
I don't want to see it used as a level 1 wall of force, but RAW is way too ambiguous. How do you guys usually rule this?
Moonlight Bridge (Su): You summon a bridge of shimmering moonlight. The 10-foot-wide span touches the ground at a point adjacent to your position. From this point it can extend in any direction for 10 feet per oracle level. The path persists until you have crossed over the bridge or for 24 hours, whichever is shorter. You may summon a moonlight bridge a number of times per day equal to your Charisma bonus. Should the bridge be attacked, treat it as a wall of force.
It'd be a horizontal wall of force at best. I dont see how it can be overly useful unless you have someone in a hole or what not.
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There is nothing in the description of moonlight bridge that would even imply it could be used as a wall of force (with the exception of protecting you from attacks coming from directly below the bridge you are walking across)
Just as a wall of force cannot be cast to make a ceiling of force or a floor of force, moonlight bridge can not be used to make walls. It creates a 10' wide (virtually 0" thick) walkable surface of physically manifested moonlight.
if you don't want your player to abuse moonlight bridge, tell the player to stop trying to abuse moonlight bridge. If the player ignores you and tries to transform a 10' wide horizontal walking surface into a 10' wall of force... guess what - you tell the player
"You have made a 10' wide horizontal walking surface of physically manifested moonlight directly ontop of the ground. The area of floor that has a bridge overlay is shimmering slightly. If for some reason, Someone tries to attack the shimmering surface, it will have defenses equivalent to a wall of force... That said, those ratlings sure do like running across that shimmery ground you made, and they are now all biting you in the ankles. Does 18 hit your AC?"
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The key words are "in any direction". It doesn't say "horizontally in any direction". It's slightly unfortunate.
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It also says it's a path and a bridge. Or are you ignoring those parts?
Bridge: a structure carrying a pathway or roadway over a depression or obstacle
If it's vertical, it's not a path, and therefore not a bridge.
It also says it's a path and a bridge. Or are you ignoring those parts?
Bridge: a structure carrying a pathway or roadway over a depression or obstacleIf it's vertical, it's not a path, and therefore not a bridge.
"Path" to me indicates its something to put between you and the source of gravity. Unless gravity is coming from the wall I dont see how you can make it vertical.
Thanks for the replies.
I think I'll make it horizontal plane only in any direction. At most at a slight angle to make a ramp.
Let's say, hypothetically, a player uses it to create a bridge to cross a pit. If there were opponents underneath, trying to shoot arrows upwards at them, then it'd count as a wall of force? Basically a wall of force for the ground?
Secondly, would the moonlight bridge have any mass? Could it trigger pressure plates?
Path and Bridge to me, don't mean anything. They are flavor text. A log can be used as a bride. Bridging in a house is vertical and meant to keep your floors straight. Almost no bridges are flat. Most are purposely bowed at the center, in both directions. One for strength, one for runoff.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Let the player have fun. How often do you need a bridge that this ability would be SO useful only as a bridge multiple times per day. One of the major draws to playing tabletop RPGs, for me, is to find interesting uses for things like this.
Yes, if it gets abused to auto stop the bad guy every time, then talk to the player. If he or she uses it to take full cover from arrows while attending to a victim, that is a friggin great use of the ability, in my opinion.
No, I would not give it any mass or have it trigger anything. It is just light.
I absolutely love moonlight bridge as a DM. I've built no less than 3 NPC's who have used it. (Including a principal herald of the gods who loved to make big entrances.)
The visual is just so awesome. Also, you know s~#$ is about to get real when I toss on moonlight sonata and have an NPC walk down a moonlight bridge.
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You will have to declare the maximum angle for your houserule.
This would put forth questions:
Is it 45 degrees, more/less?
If an effect that changes direction of gravity, such as Reverse Gravity, will the restrictions put forth adapt, remain unchanged, or will it be unusable?
If a player can walk vertical, such as with Slippers of Spider Climbing, is the effect still limited by the vertical/horizontal?
You will be answering many other questions, with said houserules.
You may end up with more houserules, to make the houserules, of your houserules, function.
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A log can be used as a bride.
I'm sure marrying a tree would be illegal.
A log can be used as a bride.I'm sure marrying a tree would be illegal.
I think that can be house-ruled. :^)
But speaking of house rules, its the exact reason why I made this thread. The rules for Moonlight Bridge are just too ambiguous to start with. So I wanted to get some ideas from those who have dealt with it or used it before.
A log can be used as a bride.I'm sure marrying a tree would be illegal.
Why? Trees have feelings too.
Now you're just acting like trees have bad grammar. How rude!
I cedar what you did there...
Birch!
What would be wrong with a level one wall of force? It's totally defensive, stops line of effect for player characters, too...
It only controls a path if it's the only path. (And I might welcome players being a tad more actually aware of the map.) So it's very much less useful out-of-doors.
Instead of comparing it to a Wall of Force, OMG!, try comparing it to a Tower Shield, NBD.
It's a broader diversion than others, but I say make it optional whether to treat it as real. The rules say to treat it as a wall of force if attacked, but that doesn't mean it has to obstruct passing through it. I also think it provides a better visual that way.
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What would be wrong with a level one wall of force?
I think that this is one of the rare cases where "if you have to ask the question you won't understand the answer" applies.
Wall of Force is a very useful, powerful 5th level spell, one that can regularly trivialize many encounters at that level (usually by splitting an encounter into several much simpler encounters). At 1st level, just about no opponents will have counters.
I personally would probably enforce a 1:2 ration of rise:run (i.e., maximum of 5' up or down per 10' of length) to still be considered a bridge. Any steeper than that and you are making a stair or a chute.
Uh, are you really trying to say you can reach through it? If so, how do you walk on it?
It is made of moonlight - so the idea that it can have a sort of polarization to the force directionality it resists is not actually a jump. It can resist up down forces (relative to gravitational pull) but not front/back/side/side forces.
If you turn the bridge on its side, the force resistance is still up and down - you could walk right through the wall - but with a decent acrobatics roll you might be able to balance and walk along the top edge.
Uh, are you really trying to say you can reach through it? If so, how do you walk on it?
That cognitive dissonance is less than the balance issues of a wall of force in every hallway that's long enough or disallowing minor changes in height.
For mechanics, think of them as more forgiving Castlevania staircases.
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I've had players and NPCs in games I GM use Moonlight Bridge in a defensive manner, and I've seen Moonlight Bridge used in a defensive manner in PFS games I've played. It's really not that bad, as it's pretty much a purely defensive/tactical option.
Plus, why should I make players wait to recreate this scene? My job is to help them tell a good story.
OP here. Been a while since I could check on this thread.
Got a hypothetical question for everyone here. Having a disagreement with one of my players and was wondering how some of you would rule this.
Let's say the oracle falls down 10 feet x 10 feet pit that's 15 foot deep.
Would you allow the oracle to conjure up a moonlight bridge "ramp" and walk out?
Why or why not?
OP here. Been a while since I could check on this thread.
Got a hypothetical question for everyone here. Having a disagreement with one of my players and was wondering how some of you would rule this.
Let's say the oracle falls down 10 feet x 10 feet pit that's 15 foot deep.
Would you allow the oracle to conjure up a moonlight bridge "ramp" and walk out?
Why or why not?
Is the oracle small sized?
If not, I would simply allow the bridge to appear 7.5 feet up in the air, and have the player jump/pull himself up on it, then jump/pull himself out of pit.Or use the ability twice to make platforms every 5 feet.
The climb skill defines the difference between a wall and a slope. A wall is a surface with an angle greater than 60 degrees. A slope is a surface whose angle is less than 60 degrees. But to start in the players square and go over 5 feet and up 15 is a 3:1 pitch... A 300% slope... Or a 72 degree angle!!!! And it is smooth! So it is a smooth wall, and as such, it is unclimbable per the climb rules.
all that said - I personally would only allow the bridge to be made at slopes of less that 60 degrees as that would require a 0 climb check but your movement would be reduced to 1/4 speed while on a bridge of that slope
0-10 degree slope: no penalty to movement
11-30 degree slope: difficult terrain (1/2 speed)
31-60 degree slope: slope considered to steep to walk. climb check 0 needed (1/4 speed)
At 45 degrees it would be about 10' high. Then the Oracle (assuming medium) could just climb out without too much trouble.
It's all a gm call. I don't allow players to make walls as by raw a wall is not a bridge. However I have seen players get creative. I had a player create an arch bridge inside a 10ft wide hallway with a 10ft ceiling. Enemies could climb up to the apex but couldn't go any further because if the ceiling.
Unless you mandate perfectly horizontal surfaces players will be creative. And if you do mandate this you then nerf the ability to actually use it as a bridge in some situations.
Seems pretty clear. Doesn't matter how it is oriented, it is only treated as wall of force if the bridge itself is attacked.
Offers no protection or cover of any sort to caster. Not intended to, and the spell explicitly states the conditions under which it is considered a wall of force.
No problem here. Would allow orienting however they wanted.