So as I mentioned in a previous thread, my 11yr old son is going to play a cat-folk barbarian, using Ajani Goldmane for his character. I created an alternate racial trait to represent the larger predatory felines, subbing +2STR for the +2DEX. He wants to go Invulnerable Rager, along with the Superstition anti-magic line - with a healthy dose of Beast Totem, Intimidation and Come & Get Me thrown in for good measure (ambitious, isn't he? lol)
The character is going to come from the area around the Curchain Hills in Varisia, as we'll be running the RotRL campaign. The character has decided to go out & see the world, & winds up in Sandpoint just in time for the Swallowtail Festival. My son doesn't want the character to follow any particular religion (more of a free spirit), & to be more neutral in alignment.
Here's the relevant stats so far (not a lot to a basic barbarian, after all):
Cat-folk Barbarian, level 1
18STR
12DEX
16CON
10INT/WIS
11CHA
Feat
Power Attack
We've narrowed his traits selection down to 4 final options, & I was hoping to get the community's thoughts/advice/input on which ones you'd go with (& why). I think they're all solid choices.
Bloody-Minded (combat): +1 Initiative, +1 Intimidate skill checks
Highlander (regional): +1 Stealth skill checks (class skill); increases to +2 in hilly/rocky areas
Light Sleeper (regional): 4hrs of sleep counts as a full nights' rest (recover 1HP/level); still need 24hrs to count as full days' rest
Zest for Battle (racial - yes, I know it's for dwarves, but I feel several of the racial traits can have similar variants for other races): +1 weapon damage whenever a morale bonus to attack is in effect
I think Zest for Battle & Highlander are my two favorites, with Bloody-Minded a close third. What do all of you think?
If allowed, I like Berserker of the Society, and Coherent Rage.
The only skill that would be applicable to Coherent Rage would be Stealth, & even then, without a class skill bonus, it would be of limited use....
We considered Berserker of the Society, but felt the extra 3 rds of rage wouldn't age well as he levels up, since rage scales pretty well on it's own....
We're not opposed to hearing other suggestions, but I went through ALL the Paizo traits on the D20PFSRD, & came up with a list of 20 options - these 4 were the ones that made the final cut.
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Optimistic gambler is a good trait for bloodragers and Barbarian who does not intend to rage cycle. At Least the way I interrupt it...the rage persists after "ending" it...so rage cycles don't work with that trait.
I honestly like the Bloody-Minded (combat): +1 Initiative, +1 Intimidate skill checks out of the choices you listed.
Reactionary is always good. Catfolk like cats are usually quick and nimble anyways. And is a better choice than Bloody-minded.
My picks would be Optimistic Gambler and Reactionary or Indomitable Faith. The last would be the players choice of Initiative versus Saves. The idea of Going First and killing them faster or Weathering the storm (Come and Get me style)
I would take Cha down to 10 myself and put that +1 to the Dex. Then at level 4 give it a bump. Come and Get me requires combat reflexes and a decent Dex to get AoOs.
Advice for your kid in RotRL:
1: Best investment He can make is a +1 Furious Giant's Bane Adamantine Weapon. Buy a Cold Iron weapon for book 1. Replace it with a Adamantine weapon before end of book 2. Get it +1 asap. Get Furious on it sometime in book 3. Book 4 you want Giant's Bane. Luckily this is only a +3 special material weapon so its not going to be overly hard to achieve. But this weapon I call RotRL Stomper.
Hell all your materials should follow that weapon guideline...Minus the Barbarian Specific Furious enchant...they should grab an enchantment suited to their class or abilities.
2: Take Big Game Hunter Feat @ level 9. It is a campaign specific feat and is Worth it. He could ask the DM for the option free feat the Players Guide suggests and grab it level 1.
3: Invest in a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier as the 1/day critical negation ability will save his life a lot in this campaign. The things in this campaign are brutal and hit hard. RoTRL is a Player killer and he will need every bit of help and advice he can get.
Can't find Mindlessly Cruel on the D20PFSRD.. & if it's the same as Zest for Battle, what's the point?
Optimistic Gambler is not allowed, as I consider it a broken trait.
I'm hoping for some input on the traits I initially mentioned....
Sorry, @ Fruian, I had my comment page up for extended time, & hadn't seen your post until I finished my comment...
Indomitable Faith was ruled out due to my son not wanting his character to have any religious influence on this particular character. We considered some of the other Will-enhancing traits, but decided that with the +2 from raging, added to the Superstition power he plans to take at level 2, he should be ok. He'll probably grab Iron Will with a feat around 5th level or so for added protection.
Reactionary didn't fit the character concept, as he wasn't bullied during childhood - part of what made Bloody-Minded appealing (the Intimidation bonus was nice as well).
Will definitely consider shifting the point into DEX for Come & Get Me later....
Big Game Hunter was going to be recommended somewhere around the time of Book 3, for a couple of the melee-types....
Will keep the equipment suggestions tucked away for reference.
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its fine.
When it comes to Pure Martial Classes there is hardly a broken trait or Feat. Outside of Leadership. Martials need all the help they can get to be honest. And that is especially true in such a magical heavy campaign like RotRL.
Fate's Favored + Sacred tattoo is border line tho as a +2 luck to ALL saves is really strong at level 1 without a single feat investment. When Iron will + Lightning Reflexes + Fortitude is 3 feats. @.@ but I'll sure abuse it when I can haha. The other Notable one is Finding Haleen which gives +1 HP and +1 SKill point at every level.
A similar example from a caster point of view would be Magical Lineage + Wayang Spellhunter working together. Both achieve the same result but are worded completely different and are 2 different Trait types. I think this was accidental on the developers side but IDK as I can not speak for them and i am only speculating.
But as for the 4 you listed: Bloody-Minded (combat): +1 Initiative, +1 Intimidate skill checks is the most solid for the character your son envisions as your description says:
He wants to go Invulnerable Rager, along with the Superstition anti-magic line - with a healthy dose of Beast Totem, Intimidation and Come & Get Me thrown in for good measure (ambitious, isn't he? lol)
The Initiative is just gravy and considered a top choice when it comes to traits. Tho I would still rather have the +2 from reactionary as I've never been a Intimidation style player. People don't like it outside battle and Inside battle unless the intimidate comes as a free action I just don't want to waste my Action economy.
edit: You posted before I did so I did not see your last comment.
You can change reactionary to match the other Traits that offer the same bonus...elves have a racial trait for it and I believe there is 1 other trait that offers the same +2.
If allowed, I like Berserker of the Society, and Coherent Rage.The only skill that would be applicable to Coherent Rage would be Stealth, & even then, without a class skill bonus, it would be of limited use....
We considered Berserker of the Society, but felt the extra 3 rds of rage wouldn't age well as he levels up, since rage scales pretty well on it's own....
We're not opposed to hearing other suggestions, but I went through ALL the Paizo traits on the D20PFSRD, & came up with a list of 20 options - these 4 were the ones that made the final cut.
It seems like it would be limited use anyway.
You use stealth when you AREN'T cutting people's heads off. Once a fight starts, stealth is out of the window for most classes most of the time. Restealthing while the head chopping happens just isn't much of an option. So you can just rage out and forget about it, and just grab the trait that helps when you would actually want to stealth.
Unless you grab shadow dancer, which could be interesting, honestly. Then you can play a classic Jason Voorhees type character, taking out all the campers. A slight dip, and you lose little (maybe a 1 level delay for a couple of rage powers, but still, not too catastrophic). It could work well thematically for a large predatory cat type character.
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Auspicious Tattoo +1 will saves without the whole Faith hang up.
Warrior of Old +2 initiative for being trained hard as a warrior.
Adopted makes picking race traits easier to get what you really want.
Adopted doesn't fit the character background.
Warrior of Old might work, but personally, I think I like Bloody-Minded given what my son wants to play....
Not sure how I missed Auspicious Tattoo, definitely worth consideration.
Ok, so if I consider allowing Optimistic Gambler, how does it interact with rage? I get that the effect that caused the morale bonus is extended, not just the morale bonus itself - so does that mean the entire rage is extended 1d4 rounds? If so, how does that affect the fatigue effect at the end of the rage?
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I've gotten some pretty good mileage out of Dangerously Curious, but that might not be the best option for barbarians.
The stealth-as-a-class-skill from Highlander can be neat; few people expect a sneaky barbarian. Almost took it myself but opted out in favor of Use Magic Device and +2 initiative. (And yes, Vulpierre got picked on as a kid.)
Bloody Minded sounds pretty great for concept, definitely. Zest for Battle also sounds fitting and would be nice (since barbarians tend to be under the effect of morale bonuses during fights).
It's a standard 20-point buy: racial mods are +2STR, +2CHA & -2WIS - I mentioned the cat-folk alternate racial trait I created for this character subbing STR for DEX.
@Fruian - so then I assume the fatigue doesn't kick in until the rage ends, but he's only fatigued for double the number of rounds he raged, not counting the OG rounds?
Highlander is just thematically cool. Plus, and this is personal pet peeve of mine, whenever the group as a whole needs to sneak in, there's ALWAYS one guy who is wearing heavy armor, has low Dex, and didn't invest in stealth at all. Don't be that guy. This trait is effectively better than a feat (Skill Focus doesn't get you a +4!) and requires only minimal investment to pay off. One single rank in Stealth gets a +8 modifier. It's really not bad at all.
Our last game had a barbarian who was this guy. Sneaking along, all "clank, clank, clank".... I figure he doesn't need to drop a lot of points into it, but a couple, along with the class bonus & the cat-folk racial bonus, should suffice. Also, I thought it fit the concept of a lion-folk predator needing to sneak up closer to prey before being able to attack.
We decided to raise DEX to 13, & then the level 4 bonus will go into it. Adding in a DEX-boosting magic item somewhere along the way, & he should be ok by the time he picks up Combat Reflexes/Come & Get Me arrive.
So, the point buy was:
10 for 16+2 racial = 18
2 for 12
10 for 16
0 for 10
2 for 12-2 racial = 10
-1 for 9+2 racial = 11Do I have that right?
Glad to see that you're getting some extra Dex. A +3 modifier by midlevels should be good.
That's correct, although see the post above regarding switching CHA for DEX.
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@Fruian - so then I assume the fatigue doesn't kick in until the rage ends, but he's only fatigued for double the number of rounds he raged, not counting the OG rounds?
You count the OG rounds as well.
It is a two edged sword but once a player gets the feeling of how many rounds combat will end they will stop rage early to conserve on rage rounds.
This is also why I said OG is not good for rage cycling types...people who get immunity to fatigue and use 1/rage Abilities over and over. But the Rage powers you listed that he wanted are not 1 time use per rage.
But it is a wonderful ability to extend a barbarian's resource of rage rounds. Sometimes they tend to run low in long adventuring days and I know come book 4 he is going to be facing a very long and hard dungeon and will need that resource tool.
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That's still 23 points...?
And you're going to drop Cha by 1 to raise Dex by 1, that's cool. But...where are the 3 extra points coming from?
Not sure where I mixed it up, but you're right. Correct CON to 15.
Thanks.
@Fruian - so then I assume the fatigue doesn't kick in until the rage ends, but he's only fatigued for double the number of rounds he raged, not counting the OG rounds?You count the OG rounds as well.
It is a two edged sword but once a player gets the feeling of how many rounds combat will end they will stop rage early to conserve on rage rounds.
This is also why I said OG is not good for rage cycling types...people who get immunity to fatigue and use 1/rage Abilities over and over. But the Rage powers you listed that he wanted are not 1 time use per rage.
But it is a wonderful ability to extend a barbarian's resource of rage rounds. Sometimes they tend to run low in long adventuring days and I know come book 4 he is going to be facing a very long and hard dungeon and will need that resource tool.
Definitely more advantageous than Berserker of the Society - possibly even the Extra Rage feat. I'll talk to him about it, & we'll reconsider....
My son & I went over all the various options, between what we had previously selected & what you folks recommended.
After careful consideration, my son decided to go with Strong Willed as well as Optimistic Gambler.
He felt it was very important that he, as the primary melee fighter, not end up charmed/controlled into turning on his companions.
He also really liked the idea of getting extra rounds of rage per day, especially when it can easily end up being more than either Berserker of the Society or Extra Rage.
Thank you all very much for all the input & advice given here, as well as for the patience with all my questions. It's greatly appreciated.