Bored at work today and thought this would be a fun question to ask the boards.
Rules:
1). No 3rd party material allowed.
2). 20-pt buy
3). Build to whatever level you want.
4). The build should try to capture the 'spirit' of the character, but not if it puts his effectiveness in the toilet.
Search the Conversions thread
Search the Conversions thread
No go.
And I'm not looking for advice, just thought it would be fun to see what people come up with.
From the more recent movies? Probably a MoMS-gestalt-Maneuver Master monk (losing the various ki-specific abilities) with Kraken Style (for Throttle, ignoring the "intent" which makes the feat kind of worthless), Stunning Fist, and, later, the master trick (assassinate). Put him up against a bunch of multiclass warrior/experts and enjoy the show.
No idea how I'd do so, but that's what his "feel" is (to me).
The one from the older movies?
Uh... maybe an expert or even a slayer with a few levels of gunslinger? I dunno - it's been a really long time since I've seen that movie (though I recall it being pretty good).
The books?
Sadly, I've never read them.
EDIT:
Search the Conversions threadNo go.
And I'm not looking for advice, just thought it would be fun to see what people come up with.
Yeah, the only thing I can find is this, or the very thread we're reading now.
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Jason is still a normal human so he would top out at Iron weight or level 4 or 5 in Pathfinder. I wont make a full build, but I would say he is a slayer.
improved unarmed strikes, improved grapple, weapon focus(multiple firearms), profession(soldier)
He probably gets a few more free bonus feats also.
str 15
dex 16 or higher
con 18
int 16
wis 16
cha 14
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He's a 5th level, no spell Ranger with IUS and the gunslinger line of feats, and FE: Human, with excellent stat rolls.
Flavor as you like. +4/+4 TH/DMG humans and skill rolls against them would be monstrously strong in our world, and highlight just how much of a human-killer he is.
==Aelryinth
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Oh, yeah!
Throw Anything and Catch Off-Guard (and any advanced versions of those he can nab).
Dude used an ink pen to murder another dude. An ink pen. And not the sharp kind, either.
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How would I build Jason Bourne, a master Spy?
With SpyCraft, duh.
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I'm at a loss how to mimic the headache inducing shakycam.
Oh, yeah!
Throw Anything and Catch Off-Guard (and any advanced versions of those he can nab).
Dude used an ink pen to murder another dude. An ink pen. And not the sharp kind, either.
This is what I was thinking of. I feel he would have to be some flavor of monk (probably MOMS as others have suggested) but catch off guard is a must.
He also killed a dude with a towel and another dude with a hardback book I think?
I understand the 5th level restriction...but his stats would be silly. I'm not sure a 20-pt buy would get it done.
Not super familiar with the monk in general, but if they have access to the amateur swash feat, parry and riposte might be pretty integral to his fighting style as well.
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heh he doesn't do anything beyond a 20 pt buy person. Anyway, to make it work easily, I would just use brawler, simply because of martial flexibility, basically allowing to do most stuffs without having to go in a round way about it. Want to use catch off guard in one scene? go for it, want to be an expert gun fighter in another? go for it, want to suddenly specialize in combat maneuvers like grappling etc...yeah brawler has you covered.
Guess you could even do the typical MoMS 2/Brawler 3 build which seems to suit well, most action heroes and stuffs I just came up with in the middle of the fight.
I feel like people are vastly underestimating the bad@$$itude of Jason Bourne. Dude, quite simply, WRECKS people. I suppose maybe he doesn't stand out as well in a fantasy setting, but...I feel like he would ROLF-stomp pretty much any unarmed fighter in Pathfinder.
heh he doesn't do anything beyond a 20 pt buy person.
Yeah. Most of the mooks he takes out are warriors or experts or multiclass builds thereof. He might've gone up 'gainst a couple of rogues.
Anyway, to make it work easily, I would just use brawler, simply because of martial flexibility, basically allowing to do most stuffs without having to go in a round way about it. Want to use catch off guard in one scene? go for it, want to be an expert gun fighter in another? go for it, want to suddenly specialize in combat maneuvers like grappling etc...yeah brawler has you covered.
Guess you could even do the typical MoMS 2/Brawler 3 build which seems to suit well, most action heroes and stuffs I just came up with in the middle of the fight.
That... that is really daggum brilliant.
His main thing that he does that's really hard to pull off in PF, I'd say, is hide in plain sight (that thing where he walks behind a moving bus or into a crowd of people and just disappears).
This is actually a problem for many individuals. The lowest I can see it being gotten is level 6 with 1 shadow dancer, but requiring the shadows doesn't imitate the movie very well.
If there was a variant kind of lion blade base class that dropped the Inspire Self ability and gained the Brawler's Martial Flexibility ability instead (and also Flurry of Maneuvers, because that rocks and the Lion Blade really needs the help), I'd go with that (maybe putting in a Favored Terrain/Alternate: Hide in Plain Sight thing?).
(Heck, I'd actually do something similar for Ethan Hunt from the M:I movies... at least the first one; third one, maybe, too. The second he'd be a weird action hero/different class.)
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Jason is still a normal human so he would top out at Iron weight or level 4 or 5 in Pathfinder. I wont make a full build, but I would say he is a slayer.
I think he is 'action move normal', not actually normal. A real human being couldnt take the punishment he does through the series. I would probably put him in the 7 or 8 level range. The one scene where he falls like 8 stories in the middle of stairs and lands on a body and gets up ok comes to mind. Though I do think slayer is a descent choice, possibly with a little multiclassing with brawler for the unarmed stuff.
NINJA'D!
... which I suppose is kind of appropriate in this thread, really...
I feel like people are vastly underestimating the bad@$$itude of Jason Bourne. Dude, quite simply, WRECKS people. I suppose maybe he doesn't stand out as well in a fantasy setting, but...I feel like he would ROLF-stomp pretty much any unarmed fighter in Pathfinder.
Yeah, he wrecks people, but he wrecks low level people.
- Guy swings in and misses with a ranged touch attack v. a flat-footed foe with no armor. Natural 1s are a thing, but, you know...
- A dagger tiny knife is a really scary thing - far more deadly than fighting with hands, and something to worry about.
- Bourne and he are both from the same training; guy takes nine unarmed strikes, and two stabs with a really wussy improvised, is dropped to 0 hit points/tripped and staggered.
That's 9d3+2d4 = 18+5 = 23 damage... roughly fourth level? (I'm ignoring CON and STR modifiers, as the two combatants seem roughly "even" in terms of sheer ability.) The last one could certainly be described as a critical success Called Shot, so maybe an extra d3 damage to make the guy on the "high end" of fourth level or "low end" of fifth. And he's one of the toughest guys in the film... roughly comparable to Jason himself (the latter of whom succeeds simply due to a fortunate roll or two and a slim superiority over-all). Of course, it could also be a stunning fist instead (which indicates Other Dude has a pretty lame CON score, actually and/or a poor Fortitude).
In fact, it seems an awful lot like a Stunning Fist-type effect, as it wears off and dude suddenly goes and leaps out a window to his death to escape interrogation (i.e. Intimidate, which it seems Jason is pretty good at).
And, again, bear in mind: these guys are the best.
Compare to NSA and Security Guard Guys, he takes 'em out with two unarmed strikes and one unarmed strike, respectively. At 2d3 damage, the tough one has ~ 5 hp from his class (again, ignoring modifiers), putting him squarely in first level territory. (Borne seems to have a flurry ability, a cleave ability, or both.)
Anyhoo, fun speculation. :D
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I love your breakdown. Since this is all speculative, I'd like to point out a potential (albeit, small) flaw in your logic. Jason takes out assorted, hired guns/toughs and trained security personnel throughout the films. More often than not, he makes this appear pretty easy.
Why wouldn't we assume that these people are a few steps above a lowly commoner. Like the chump journalist that eats it in the 3rd movie for example, as we see how poorly he fairs against the same odds as Jason. If that were the case, Jason seems to effortlessly dupe and/or b!@ch slap mobs of these guys. That would ostensibly give them at least a level or two in fighter or a similar martial class, since there has to be some delineation between a trained fighter and a commoner.
The fact Jason is able to wreck droves of these types of 'characters', I would say is pretty strong evidence that he is of higher level than just 5.
Again, I feel your analysis is pretty spot-on, just playing Devil's Advocate!
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Example
- Guy swings in and misses with a ranged touch attack v. a flat-footed foe with no armor. Natural 1s are a thing, but, you know...
And you've got to assume Jason Bourne has Improved Uncanny dodge or something similar, right?
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I read this thread as How would you build Jason Bulmahn.
I am disappoint.
Big. Really, really big.
EDIT: still pondering things mentioned above, but I've been distracted by world-building... and losing a big post due to website collapse.
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I read this thread as How would you build Jason Bulmahn.
I am disappoint.
they... they aren't the same person!
The world I knowed is gone:(
I love your breakdown. Since this is all speculative, I'd like to point out a potential (albeit, small) flaw in your logic. Jason takes out assorted, hired guns/toughs and trained security personnel throughout the films. More often than not, he makes this appear pretty easy.
Why wouldn't we assume that these people are a few steps above a lowly commoner. Like the chump journalist that eats it in the 3rd movie for example, as we see how poorly he fairs against the same odds as Jason. If that were the case, Jason seems to effortlessly dupe and/or b!@ch slap mobs of these guys. That would ostensibly give them at least a level or two in fighter or a similar martial class, since there has to be some delineation between a trained fighter and a commoner.
The fact Jason is able to wreck droves of these types of 'characters', I would say is pretty strong evidence that he is of higher level than just 5.
Again, I feel your analysis is pretty spot-on, just playing Devil's Advocate!
I think a couple of brawler levels would work fine, maybe give him hero points on top of that.
I agree with you that the people he fights don't need to be commoners. I think a level of warrior would work. A warrior with combat related feats is a big difference from a commoner with non-combat feats.
I don't think it's a good idea to give him anymore than 3 levels. Making him level 6+ starts to put his power level in the same range as large sized drakes and 16-ft. tall elementals.
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I'm at a loss how to mimic the headache inducing shakycam.
Just consider that very low level scrying.
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I read this thread as How would you build Jason Bulmahn.
I am disappoint.
Building him is easy. Just tell him what great writer he is.