|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Butts are purely flavor. You don't need mechanical support for butts.
Any eidolon you make can have as many butts as you want. They can even have no butts at all. The only limitation is your imagination and the good will of your gaming group, which may or may not have an aversion to butts or certain quantities and qualities of butts.
You can certainly tie those butts into some of the eidolon's abilities, but it isn't a requirement; just as you need no evolution to say your angel eidolon has three eyes, neither do you need one to justify the floating disembodied butts circling him like an 80's videogame power-up. They just won't have any mechanical function without one.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I didn't play FFV much, but I know I'd rather have two Lenna or two Faris rather than two Butz.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Oh I see so the developers aren't annoyed about a particular evolution being broken they are annoyed about a class having lots of customization and license.Butts are purely flavor. You don't need mechanical support for butts.
Any eidolon you make can have as many butts as you want. They can even have no butts at all. The only limitation is your imagination and the good will of your gaming group, which may or may not have an aversion to butts or certain quantities and qualities of butts.
You can certainly tie those butts into some of the eidolon's abilities, but it isn't a requirement; just as you need no evolution to say your angel eidolon has three eyes, neither do you need one to justify the floating disembodied butts circling him like an 80's videogame power-up. They just won't have any mechanical function without one.
More that the whole point of a Summoner was supposed to have a Buddy with you who has a discernible look & shape, even if a bit odd. Like a Pikachu with wings.
The basic idea of a Summoner seems that you were supposed to Summon something - an angel, a devil, an elemental... something with a definite body & form (thus the forms of Eidolons).
Instead, what Eidolons actually ended up being was a Lovecraftian monstrosity whose alien geometries make Yawg-Sothtoh look like NORMAL by comparison.
The Forms of the Eidolons do exactly Jack and Squat to actually give any real shape to your Eidolons; they serve basically no purpose at all besides adding a modicum of fluff that ends up being forgotten entirely by the time you have 3-4 new body parts on it.
Believe it or not, the Summoner as-is allows for LESS creativity and license than something that gives you a bit of pre-prescribed Outsiders to graft things onto.
As it stands, EVERYONE has a Great Old One bouncing beside them, because everything is just an absolutely garbled mess of potluck lunacy. By reigning things in, you actually give Summoners more flavor and diversity - one summons Angels, another summons Elementals, another summons Blink Dogs, still another summons Displacer Beasts.
And ALL these Outsiders get Evolutions which make them different than the typical ones in the Bestiaries - the limit here is that each Outsider type can only take certain Evolutions which are make thematic sense to them (no slimy Tentacles and mouths growing out of their spine for a Blink Dog for instance)
If your Character is intended to be a Whately, then the floating gibbering-mouther-beholder-hybrid THING that you have next to you makes sense, and the basic Summoner does a fantastic job at giving you what you wanted.
But if your intention was to be more like Johann Faust, and have Mephistopheles as your Summoned Buddy, then the original Summoner did a rather piss-poor job of doing that, and instead shoved Nyarlethotep, The Crawling Chaos in your face - THAT is what the Unchained Summoner is intended to fix.
|
|
Oh I see so the developers aren't annoyed about a particular evolution being broken they are annoyed about a class having lots of customization and license.Butts are purely flavor. You don't need mechanical support for butts.
Any eidolon you make can have as many butts as you want. They can even have no butts at all. The only limitation is your imagination and the good will of your gaming group, which may or may not have an aversion to butts or certain quantities and qualities of butts.
You can certainly tie those butts into some of the eidolon's abilities, but it isn't a requirement; just as you need no evolution to say your angel eidolon has three eyes, neither do you need one to justify the floating disembodied butts circling him like an 80's videogame power-up. They just won't have any mechanical function without one.
I think I've missed a conversation somewhere?
(personally customization of flavor is the biggest draw the summoner has for me. I'm pretty sure that isn't going away, whatever's being talked about.)
(())
As it stands, EVERYONE has a Great Old One bouncing beside them, because everything is just an absolutely garbled mess of potluck lunacy
Eh, every one of my eidolon concepts has had a definite aesthetic and theme and stuck with it, be it "alien angel", "Vudrani multi-armed lillend", "chaos-headed muse", "bonded genie", "ancestral guardian spirit", etc.
|
Contributor
|
As it stands, EVERYONE has a Great Old One bouncing beside them, because everything is just an absolutely garbled mess of potluck lunacyEh, every one of my eidolon concepts has had a definite aesthetic and theme and stuck with it, be it "alien angel", "Vudrani lillend", "chaos-headed muse", "bonded genie", "ancestral guardian spirit", etc.
I just don't like how hard it is to realize any of my concepts. The point costs all skew so heavily towards the pounce-machine. Making an eidolon with interesting magic and decent Charisma (for example) seems so silly by comparison, especially given how many points have to be sunk into it, and the caps on the ability increase evolution.
I'm really looking forward to outsider-specific forms, myself. Although I'm hoping (and assuming) there'll still be plenty of customization. :)
It's more-so that any system that allows players to pick and choose their traits fully will have balance issues when placed in a system that has semi-rigid capabilities, like PF. "Pick everything, including natural attacks" is far, far away from "Pick rage powers, here's the barbarian framework."
Also, they kind of screwed up a few times, like releasing the wrong spell list and not restricting number of attacks for natural AND manufactured combined, as was intended.
ANYHOW, this 3pp book has an ooze base form. I'm personally using the Hut base from there to basically create a living crystal mech that my gnome summoner pilots, but don't have an experience with the ooze base form.
In non-3pp land, you could make this with a quadruped base form. Just make the legs really low to the ground. Like, really low to the ground. Covered in a blobbyness.
As it stands, EVERYONE has a Great Old One bouncing beside them, because everything is just an absolutely garbled mess of potluck lunacy. By reigning things in, you actually give Summoners more flavor and diversity - one summons Angels, another summons Elementals, another summons Blink Dogs, still another summons Displacer Beasts.
Not really, that is just people who are lazy with their evos. It is perfectly simple to get an eidolon with the max number of natural attacks without too many extra limbs.
Lets start with a humanoid shape (I know, glorious quadruped master race...but the difference there is that they have extra legs at the back that do not affect number of natural attacks at all, so let us walk past that). They can get bite/claw/claw. And then another claw/claw on their feet (because the eidolon rules did not even want to start touch the problems of the claw/talon argument, particularly since it might not be relavent for creatures that can easily be quadrupeds).
After that, you can add on a sting on a tail (since those are also primary). There, you have a total of 6 attacks. That set up will satisfy you for levels 1-17 (and most games do not even get that far). And all this without getting too many arms floating about (maybe one pair for centaurs, but that is within aesthetic reason). Just a nice simple wild beast kind of thing.
Side note- interesting idea for eidolon appearance due to my words and previous posts- having arms floating around your eidolon. Just there and disconnected, with no special game play implications other than 'hey extra hands'. That can give you extra arms without looking deformed. It would even make for an interesting wolf/tiger design.
Butts are purely flavor. You don't need mechanical support for butts.
{. . .}
On the contrary, if your Eidolon is going to be The Spleen, this could actually be important . . . (and by the way, we also need an Oracle's Curse for this).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sorry, not possible. No ifs, ands, or butts.
I don't think any in my group have made any "Great Old Ones." Off hand I recall a Yeti, an angel and suit of armor.