Failing at identifying a magic item.

[Attelso]

Hi, I'm DMing a campaign and we have a little discussion regarding identifying.

The rules states nothing about what happens if you fail at at identifying.
I feel that should mean I could do a hidden roll and give false information on a fail, so the players wouldnt automaticly know if they succeeded or not.

While my players feel they should always know if it has failed since nothing in the rules are stated about failing then nothing should happen.

What are you guys thoughts?

[Brf]

There is nothing in either Spellcraft or Detect magic that suggests false information should be given on a failure.

[Attelso]

Brf wrote:

There is nothing in either Spellcraft or Detect magic that suggests false information should be given on a failure.

Yes that is the whole point of the discussion, but does that mean since theres no mention then it means there should be none, or does it mean its up to DM discretion.

[Jeff Merola]

No mention of it means it doesn't happen. You're free to change the rules, of course.

[Rynjin]

Your players are right by simple facts: There are no listed penalties for failing to identify an item, beside the obvious.

You don't know what it is. That's it.

I'm confused as to how you could "feel that should mean" something else that isn't even hinted at.

Attelso wrote:

Brf wrote:

There is nothing in either Spellcraft or Detect magic that suggests false information should be given on a failure.

Yes that is the whole point of the discussion, but does that mean since theres no mention then it means there should be none,

That would be how this entire game works, yes.

"It doesn't say anything about that" is never code for "Make some s!#~ up and stick it here iunno do whatever man".

[Jiggy]

There is no blanket rule that if a skill check fails, something goes wrong. The default assumption is that failing a check simply means you don't get the thing that a successful check gives you: failing a check simply means you don't clear the jump, don't persuade the noble, don't escape your bonds, don't spot the trap. It does NOT mean that you jump backwards, gain a sworn enemy, throw out your back, or have your eyes fall out.

Certain skills are exceptions, and spell out exactly what happens when you fail (Climb, for example). That does not mean that every skill has extra negative effects on a failure.

[Dave Justus]

There can be consequences for failing to completely identify an item when dealing with a cursed item:

"Cursed items are identified like any other magic item with one exception: unless the check made to identify the item exceeds the DC by 10 or more, the curse is not detected. If the check is not made by 10 or more, but still succeeds, all that is revealed is the magic item's original intent. If the item is known to be cursed, the nature of the curse can be determined using the standard DC to identify the item."

[Purplefixer]

Dave's quotation is correct. Jiggy is correct. If you fail to identify a non-cursed magic item, you are aware that you don't know what the magic item is, and you may try again tomorrow. There are no further penalties for failure, there is no penalty to the next day's roll.