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So here is a build I have in front of me.
Plant Type (10 RP)
Medium Size (0 RP)
Normal Speed (0 RP)
Standard Language (0 RP)
Bonded to the Land (2 RP) [Forest]
[+2 Dodge Bonus when in the selected terrain)
Camouflage (1 RP) [Forest]
[+4 Stealth bonus in selected terrain]
Terrain Strider (1 RP) [Forest]
Treespeech (2 RP)
Spell-Like Ability, At-Will (2 RP)
[Endure Elements (Self Only)]
Enclave Protector (2 RP)
[Constant-Nondetection; 1/day Faerie fire, Obscure Object, Sanctuary]
Light Dependent (-2 RP)
[1d4 points of Con damage each 24 hours they go without exposure to Sunlight]
[Total 18 RP]
Now I know its high but within the RP for a character starting by class levels with no CR adjustment.
What class best fits a character like this? I was thinking Druid or Ranger personally due to the nature theme but just because they are a plant they don't have to be typecast as being the hippies of a party do they?
I am looking for ideas, maybe some ideas on the race but it seems pretty solid and not to terribly powerful all the spell-likes are weak and fit mostly.
Any nature class would be the most obvious. Druid, ranger, hunter.
They needn't be a hippy, but they're probably more in tune with the natural world. Or at least, one would think the race as a whole would be.
If you're introducing them to be as commmon as humans or elves though, you might get to see a bit more diversity.
Looking at your race, while the RP is a bit high I really don't think it's overly powerful. About the only thing that is particularly "strong" is enclave protector. Otherwise this seems pretty tame.
You don't list any ability score bonuses or penalties, am I to take it there are none?
The main power of this race is it's Plant type.
Plant (10 RP)
This type encompasses humanoid-shaped vegetable creatures. Note that regular plants, such as those found in ordinary gardens and fields, lack Wisdom and Charisma scores and are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive. A plant race has the following features.Plants have the low-light vision racial trait.
Plants are immune to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
Plants are immune to paralysis, poison, polymorph, sleep effects, and stunning.
Plants breathe and eat, but do not sleep, unless they want to gain some beneficial effect from this activity. This means that a plant creature can sleep in order to regain spells, but sleep is not required to survive or stay in good health.
Those are a lot of immunities to some very nasty stuff.
I would personally either reduce those resistances or reduce the number of "extras" the race gets if you want it to be in-line with most other 0HD races.
I would say your druids loose out on a lot of of their power since wild shape will not work.
I think the 10 rp for plant takes into account the immunities it grants though so to say you should drop some of the resistances then i would say drop some of the rp off it as well.
I would have given then a custom ability to have spell effects work on them of the resisted types but only if cast with the range of self. So druids could use wildshape.
Couple of the Oracle mysteries would mesh well, like Wood (turn other people into trees!).
Claxton you are right there is no Ability Score adjustment. I do admit the race has a lot of immunities but that is kind of the perk of being an odd species based on living plants.
Druids are out because as you said they are immune to polymorph, though fabricating a racial feat to allow it seems like a reasonable Tax for all those immunities.
Without ability score adjustment, I would avoid any class that mixes melee and casting- most other races can manage to scrounge up the points without too many problems. Even if they do not have bonuses to main stats, they can save on point buy if they have bonuses in secondary stats. A bump in a dump stat means you can more comfortably dump it HARD without experiencing any major problems.
So for a natur-y class, ranger works out well (yeah, they have spell casting, but it is very low level; just going 12 wis/8 cha covers everything before stat boosting items). And you do not have to worry too much about a moderate/low wis score with a ranger, since you are immune to the better part of will saves.
If you roll for stats...well, that is a different story entirely, of course.
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On the race, I suggest an alternative racial trait :_
Bonsai- The character is size small rather than medium.
The plant subtype does provide a lot of immunities, that is true. But I feel like that is pretty much this race's shtick, it's a plant.
If you wanted to make it less powerful...maybe make a half-plant type similar to the half-construct or half-undead.
Just me, but I think it is slightly more powerful than I would like to see for a no-CR adjustment race. That is a lot of immunities.
If you dropped enclave protector, I would probably be ok with it.
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Just me, but I think it is slightly more powerful than I would like to see for a no-CR adjustment race. That is a lot of immunities.
If you dropped enclave protector, I would probably be ok with it.
Ghoran is a 19 point race printed by Paizo that can reincarnate itself with a temporary negative level and has ability adjustments. I'm 90% sure that enclave protector is less powerful on the whole. ;)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/ghoran
Just me, but I think it is slightly more powerful than I would like to see for a no-CR adjustment race. That is a lot of immunities.
If you dropped enclave protector, I would probably be ok with it.
Ghoran is a 19 point race printed by Paizo that can reincarnate itself with a temporary negative level and has ability adjustments. I'm 90% sure that enclave protector is less powerful on the whole. ;)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/ghoran
The Ghoran seed makes this a very insane player character as with the cost of a Level (I believe a Jealous weapon negates that) they can go on any mission they so choose. A caster Ghoran is powerful because it needs no gear so when its other body dies it sprouts and is like "Hey lets go again" so long as it was wise enough to get back up spellbooks handy
The Ghoran seed makes this a very insane player character as with the cost of a Level (I believe a Jealous weapon negates that) they can go on any mission they so choose. A caster Ghoran is powerful because it needs no gear so when its other body dies it sprouts and is like "Hey lets go again" so long as it was wise enough to get back up spellbooks handyJust me, but I think it is slightly more powerful than I would like to see for a no-CR adjustment race. That is a lot of immunities.
If you dropped enclave protector, I would probably be ok with it.
Ghoran is a 19 point race printed by Paizo that can reincarnate itself with a temporary negative level and has ability adjustments. I'm 90% sure that enclave protector is less powerful on the whole. ;)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/ghoran
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow the Ghoran with no CR adjustment either. ;)
I even tend to think the Aasimar and Tiefling should have a CR adjustment.
The Ghoran seed makes this a very insane player character as with the cost of a Level (I believe a Jealous weapon negates that) they can go on any mission they so choose. A caster Ghoran is powerful because it needs no gear so when its other body dies it sprouts and is like "Hey lets go again" so long as it was wise enough to get back up spellbooks handyJust me, but I think it is slightly more powerful than I would like to see for a no-CR adjustment race. That is a lot of immunities.
If you dropped enclave protector, I would probably be ok with it.
Ghoran is a 19 point race printed by Paizo that can reincarnate itself with a temporary negative level and has ability adjustments. I'm 90% sure that enclave protector is less powerful on the whole. ;)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/ghoran
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow the Ghoran with no CR adjustment either. ;)
I even tend to think the Aasimar and Tiefling should have a CR adjustment.
Well didn't PF say they upped the power output of the base races too. Aasimar had a +1 LA in old 3.5 so if they upped the power it makes sense. But to me if you add a CR for Aasimar and Tieflings you have to nail the gnome with a CR adjustment as well, because they have multiple SLA
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Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow the Ghoran with no CR adjustment either. ;)
I even tend to think the Aasimar and Tiefling should have a CR adjustment.
In my home games I'd probably just have any Aasimar/Tiefling have a slightly lower point buy. (Moreso for Ghoran.)
That's actually how we dealt with +1 LA back in 3.5. If everyone else was at a 32 point buy - you could play a +1LA race at a 25 point buy.
Well didn't PF say they upped the power output of the base races too. Aasimar had a +1 LA in old 3.5 so if they upped the power it makes sense. But to me if you add a CR for Aasimar and Tieflings you have to nail the gnome with a CR adjustment as well, because they have multiple SLAThe Ghoran seed makes this a very insane player character as with the cost of a Level (I believe a Jealous weapon negates that) they can go on any mission they so choose. A caster Ghoran is powerful because it needs no gear so when its other body dies it sprouts and is like "Hey lets go again" so long as it was wise enough to get back up spellbooks handyJust me, but I think it is slightly more powerful than I would like to see for a no-CR adjustment race. That is a lot of immunities.
If you dropped enclave protector, I would probably be ok with it.
Ghoran is a 19 point race printed by Paizo that can reincarnate itself with a temporary negative level and has ability adjustments. I'm 90% sure that enclave protector is less powerful on the whole. ;)
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/ghoran
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow the Ghoran with no CR adjustment either. ;)
I even tend to think the Aasimar and Tiefling should have a CR adjustment.
Aasimar has a bonus to 2 ability scores with no penalty, darkvision (almost always superior to low light), a good SLA, and 3 energy resistances. Plus a bunch of heritages to tail much better SLA and/or ability scores to your build.
Gnome has an ability penalty score, slow speed, lowlight vision, and comparatively crappy SLA (though I agree sometimes useful).
I don't think I've ever heard of anyone who thought the Gnome is as generally powerful as the Aasimar. This plant creature is more powerful than that.
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Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't allow the Ghoran with no CR adjustment either. ;)
I even tend to think the Aasimar and Tiefling should have a CR adjustment.In my home games I'd probably just have any Aasimar/Tiefling have a slightly lower point buy. (Moreso for Ghoran.)
That's actually how we dealt with +1 LA back in 3.5. If everyone else was at a 32 point buy - you could play a +1LA race at a 25 point buy.
I could live with that.
Usually what I did was begin them with a penalty to WBL, in PF at least I drop them a level behind their party in terms of what wealth they should have and all following rules.
I made a plant humanoid once. I called the race a "Bodip" it was more along the lines of enchantment spells and mind affects through the (fluff of course) use of it's hallucinogenic pollen... There are several sorcerer bloodlines that work well with the nature theme.
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Usually what I did was begin them with a penalty to WBL, in PF at least I drop them a level behind their party in terms of what wealth they should have and all following rules.
Doesn't the group generally just split everything they get?
Do they say "You don't get any of this cool loot because you're too special!"?
Usually what I did was begin them with a penalty to WBL, in PF at least I drop them a level behind their party in terms of what wealth they should have and all following rules.Doesn't the group generally just split everything they get?
Do they say "You don't get any of this cool loot because you're too special!"?
Generally when we start typically I level 5 I give them level 4 wealth instead, this generally keeps CR about the same over all as it limits the magical items they can buy.
Usually what I did was begin them with a penalty to WBL, in PF at least I drop them a level behind their party in terms of what wealth they should have and all following rules.
That seems sensible and balanced to me.
If you want to do anything. I mean the race is open to all.If Paizo were to, in a moment of inspired genius, hire me to head the design team for a new edition, one thing I would aim to do is even out the power level of starting races as much as possible. Races should be chosen for flavour, or perhaps as suitable for certain classes, but not for power level. And I would have a smaller number of PrCs, but playtest them carefully to make them a decent choice.
And can someone who knows please tell me what CR is?
I'm currently playing what is essentially a half-elf summoner (synthesist). The character concept is that she's a dryad who's been bonded to a treant (her eidolon) after her original tree was destroyed. Since they now share a life, when the dryad is awake the treant slumbers and vice versa. So when the half-elf summons her eidolon the "dryad" merges into the treant and falls asleep while the "treant" wakes up. I play them as two different characters with seperate personalities.
I used the Race Point system to swap out a few of the half-elf's racial traits and abilities to make her a fey with a few dryad-like qualities while the eidolon has a Plant Appearance evolution (based off of the Undead Appearance evolution, but switching the two types).
The dryad handles most of the social interaction of the pair while the treant is the party's tank. It's a lot of fun. :)
A plant character should do well in a party of murder hobos. I mean all that blood and bone.
[For those who are not Australian Blood and bone is a popular brand of fertiliser here.]
I dont really get why we have this issue of RP compared to humans, humans have some of the lowest RP but yet have you seen any guide that does not claim humans are the absolute best in every class.
Actually I think a plant creature that goes around beating the carp out of vegans would be hilarious!
I just might give that a whirl sometime.
I honestly considered making a race that was more vine like rather then plant like.
Holy carp! I just remembered a GM I used to have in Michigan always portrayed elves as hippie-tree-hugging-vegans. It would be so entertaining to have a plant creature say, I demand to know why you elves are unfairly persecuting my people!?!
Jeez! I think I'm going to have to arrange some time to game with him just for this.
I dont really get why we have this issue of RP compared to humans, humans have some of the lowest RP but yet have you seen any guide that does not claim humans are the absolute best in every class.
Yeah, cause they are generally pretty good. Not necessarily the best. But that extra feat can give you a bump up if all you consider are the numbers on your DPS or how fast you can fill you 7 feat chain.
But it's not what I see most people actually build for game play. They would almost always rather darkvision, two high ability scores, small size, the SLA, the etc...
When PFS allowed Aasimar and Tieflings (even before the early entry FAQ) suddenly half of every table was one or the other. And people were constantly talking about how so many 'unplayable' builds now worked because these 2 races are so much more powerful. Suddenly getting arcane tricksters, mystic theurges, rogues, and monks oh my.
I dont really get why we have this issue of RP compared to humans, humans have some of the lowest RP but yet have you seen any guide that does not claim humans are the absolute best in every class.Yeah, cause they are generally pretty good. Not necessarily the best. But that extra feat can give you a bump up if all you consider are the numbers on your DPS or how fast you can fill you 7 feat chain.
But it's not what I see most people actually build for game play. They would almost always rather darkvision, two high ability scores, small size, the SLA, the etc...
When PFS allowed Aasimar and Tieflings (even before the early entry FAQ) suddenly half of every table was one or the other. And people were constantly talking about how so many 'unplayable' builds now worked because these 2 races are so much more powerful. Suddenly getting arcane tricksters, mystic theurges, rogues, and monks oh my.
The question is why do we use Humans as the bench mark.
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I dont really get why we have this issue of RP compared to humans, humans have some of the lowest RP but yet have you seen any guide that does not claim humans are the absolute best in every class.
Actually, Humans are not the best in every class. However, they are always a solid choice because Humans are the most adaptable of all races (mechanically).
It just seems that when someone brings up an idea of playing an odd race that someone always brings up its comparison to Core and by core I mean they normally imply Humans.
I agree they are adaptive and flexible which makes them really good. honestly if I was doing some rare magic infused super human race they wouldn't have the +2 to every stat like the Azlanti they would have a watered-down version of Martial flexibility.
Actually I think a plant creature that goes around beating the carp out of vegans would be hilarious!
I just might give that a whirl sometime.
You won't find any carp in a vegan, at least if they have been a vegan for any length of time. Unless they are rather perverse and... never mind.
Perhaps there is a way to come up with a plant synthesist summoner. Where the plant PC is the salad and the eidelon is the dressing.
The question is why do we use Humans as the bench mark.I dont really get why we have this issue of RP compared to humans, humans have some of the lowest RP but yet have you seen any guide that does not claim humans are the absolute best in every class.Yeah, cause they are generally pretty good. Not necessarily the best. But that extra feat can give you a bump up if all you consider are the numbers on your DPS or how fast you can fill you 7 feat chain.
But it's not what I see most people actually build for game play. They would almost always rather darkvision, two high ability scores, small size, the SLA, the etc...
When PFS allowed Aasimar and Tieflings (even before the early entry FAQ) suddenly half of every table was one or the other. And people were constantly talking about how so many 'unplayable' builds now worked because these 2 races are so much more powerful. Suddenly getting arcane tricksters, mystic theurges, rogues, and monks oh my.
Cause that's how this gaming system was designed.