Weapon Finesse with a Quarterstaff?

[Redneckdevil]

I was under the impression that with 2 handed double weapons, u get 1.5 str if u only use one side and I'd u wanted to use both sides one side got 1xstr and the other got .5 str.
Always thought it stayed as a 2 handed weapon but could use both sides and they used 2 weapon fighting rules to allow that even though it's a single 2 handed weapon and not 2 different weapons.

I guess it's when ur using both sides apply the rules only for 2 weapon fighting BUT that it always still stays a single 2 handed weapon..

Sigh, makes perfect sense in my head just really hard to type it out.

[cheolkeong]

I know that this is a question aimed at the rules as they are written to a T, but we shouldn’t neglect the most important rule.

“The rules in this book are here to help you breathe life into your characters and the world they explore. While they are designed to make your game easy and exciting, you might find that some of them do not suit the style of play that your gaming group enjoys. Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs.”

Both interpretations have solid arguments but as long as you are consistent about treating it like the PC is wielding a normal weapon and a light weapon, I don’t see the harm in that. What is really the difference between the PC sheathing a two hander to pull out normal/light and allowing them to do this? It’s a power increase to be sure, but it’s far more about theme.

Think about it. Your PC wants to use dex for one out of two of his attacks instead of strength. This means your PC has good dex and bad strength, or else we wouldn’t even be talking about this right now in the context of weapon finesse. This means your pc is probably never going to benefit much from the versatility of being able to do a two handed power attack instead of this. There are a couple other benefits like being able to gain tripping staff and tripping twirl, but if a PC is dumping that many feats into being able to fight with a quarterstaff, let them have it.

As far as double slice is concerned, it’s a non issue. Double slice allows you to use your whole str mod where you normally would use only half. Again, if they are doing this much work to attack with dex, their strength modifier isn’t super sexy.

Finally, it just works from a thematic standpoint. The first swing is brute force, and the second is a quick fancy flip of the quarterstaff. If the attacker is low str high dex as we’ve said, it makes sense that the initial hit is less of a threat than the skillful followup catching the enemy off guard. For attack rolls str is how fast and forceful the strike is, dex is how precise and skillful the attack is.

With how many feats it takes just to make this kind of work, I really don’t see the harm in allowing it. The quarterstaff user could just dial wield maces with BETTER result since both attacks would be light weapons. Your Low STR pc, who could probably be a lot more powerful by leaning into his main stats with his feats, just wants to use a quarterstaff to fit his fantasy. If it proves to be a problem then nerf it.

It very well may be the intent that the offhand is only penalized as light offhand for TWF. But with some consistency I don’t think this alternative interpretation would break the game.

[Captain Zoom]

I was reading this thread then I realized it is a NECRO from 4 years ago!

And it's not even a necro to ask a follow up question or related question, it's someone literally replying to persons who posted 4 years ago!

[David knott 242]

I seem to recall that the more recent Player Companions may provide Advanced Weapon Training options that would enable a fighter to use a staff as a finesse weapon, but I don't recall the details at the moment.

[Syries]

From the Advanced Weapon Training options from Weapon Master's Handbook:

Quote:

Fighter's Finesse(Ex)

The fighter gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with all melee weapons that belong to the associated fighter weapon group (even if they cannot normally be used with Weapon Finesse). The fighter must have the Weapon Finesse feat before choosing this option.

Throw on Trained Grace AWT to double their WT bonus on top of that.

[avr]

Captain Zoom wrote:

I was reading this thread then I realized it is a NECRO from 4 years ago!

And it's not even a necro to ask a follow up question or related question, it's someone literally replying to persons who posted 4 years ago!

This happens regularly. I can see how you wouldn't notice the date, but no one who does so cares to explain how they brought up the years-dead thread in the first place. It's a mystery.

Oh, and spear dancing spiral + quarterstaff master is one means of getting weapon finesse with a quarterstaff. It's absurdly expensive in feats, true.

[Derklord]

avr wrote:

no one who does so cares to explain how they brought up the years-dead thread in the first place. It's a mystery.

By default, the search function sorts by relevance and not by date.

[Artificial 20]

Sometimes when refreshing a forum's page, it'll load up a random page, not the default (most recent) page.

Never seen it go back years, but it can catch you out.

Might explain the odd necro thread.

[blahpers]

Derklord wrote:

avr wrote:

no one who does so cares to explain how they brought up the years-dead thread in the first place. It's a mystery.

By default, the search function sorts by relevance and not by date.

This. When perusing forums, occasionally one might do a search for related threads to get some historical context. And in doing so, one might forget which threads are current and which are said historical context.

One might, anyway. You know. One.