|
If a paladin falls, he loses all class features except "weapons, armor, and shield proficiencies". I don't see an exception for base attack bonus. Does an ex-paladin of any level have a BAB of +0?
I ask because I often see ex-paladins compared to fighters without bonus feats, which suggests that they keep BAB (or at least, people expect them to.) I also see the idea that ex-paladins can retrain their paladin levels for fighter levels, but I don't see that mentioned anywhere in the CRB. Was retraining to fighter a 3.X thing? A popular house rule?
Could a fallen paladin retrain into another class besides fighter? Maybe barbarian, if he failed at the Lawful part instead of the Good part? Maybe cavalier? Maybe Celestial-blooded sorcerer?
What about other classes that can "fall"? Would a barbarian who becomes Lawful have to retrain as a fighter? What would a druid retrain as? A monk?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Base attack bonuses, skill points, and saving throw bonuses are not class features. Only the stuff in the description under the header "Class Features" would count.
As far as retraining goes, anything the retraining rules in Ultimate Campaign allow would work, if you're using those. If you're not, there's no allowance for changing anything AFAIK.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Rules as Written, not all falls are equal. A Barbarian (but for some reason not a Bloodrager) who becomes Lawful loses the ability to Rage and cannot gain more Barbarian levels, but suffers no other penalties. A Monk who becomes non-Lawful (ignore Enlightened Warrior and the Martial Artist archetype for the moment) cannot gain more Monk levels but suffers NO penalty to existing abilities.
There is a sidebar somewhere that fallen paladin who goes completely to the other side of the spectrum to instantly become an antipaladin. I think this is mostly for GMs as a campaign point sorta thing, but most campaigns don't allow CE so it's a moot point.
the UC entry on Druid retraining lists cleric, oracle, and ranger as synergistic for the purposes of retraining
Cleric lists Druid, inquisitor, oracle, paladin
Monk lists Fighter, rogue
Barbarian is cavalier, fighter, ranger.
All this means in mechanics is that it takes you less time (and thus less money) for training purposes.
Of course, a question for RAW, if an ex-class still counts as member of a class.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Which ever option is least beneficial to the player. For example, an ex-paladin would still take extra damage from an anti-paladin's smite good, but a Holy Avenger would be wielded as a simple +2 longsword.
Of course, a question for RAW, if an ex-class still counts as member of a class.
This doesn't make any sense to me. If the ex-paladin is no longer good-aligned, then would he really take extra damage from a smite good attack? (I know that makes a lot of assumptions about the manner of the falling, but I still wonder.)
Also, must the ex-paladin retrain? What about simply multiclassing?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Which ever option is least beneficial to the player. For example, an ex-paladin would still take extra damage from an anti-paladin's smite good, but a Holy Avenger would be wielded as a simple +2 longsword.
Of course, a question for RAW, if an ex-class still counts as member of a class.
This doesn't make any sense to me. If the ex-paladin is no longer good-aligned, then would he really take extra damage from a smite good attack? (I know that makes a lot of assumptions about the manner of the falling, but I still wonder.)
Also, must the ex-paladin retrain? What about simply multiclassing?
You can fall and still be good. You cold go chaotic, or just make one bad choice that is against your code that isn't enough to change your alignment but is enough to revoke your powers until atonement.
As for retraining, it's better to do so, but you can just multiclass. I once played a fallen paladin 1/sorcerer 4/dragon disciple. A cult leader took a hostage of one of his followers to try to escape. I decided the hostage got what she deserved and attacked the hostage to get to the big bad. I ended the cult and my paladin hood all at once.
I changed to LN and became more harsh and Dredd like in the game.
|
|
You can fall and still be good. You cold go chaotic, or just make one bad choice that is against your code that isn't enough to change your alignment but is enough to revoke your powers until atonement.
Oh, I know. As I said, that makes a lot of assumptions about the manner of the falling. But Imbaticus seems to be saying that regardless of the current alignment of the ex-pally, the smite good would hit. That just seems wrong to me.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The smite good still checks for good. If you're good and have paladin level they count for extra damage, even if you are a ex-paladin.
In your original post regarding whether an ex-[class] still counts as a [class], you said "whichever option is least beneficial to the player". This makes it sounds like it's not a question of what exactly smite good checks for, and more a question of how to most efficiently screw over the player.
Your own example of a LN Dredd-style ex-paladin, for example, should be immune to smite good despite having a level of ex-paladin because smite good specifies "a good creature with levels of cleric or paladin", and he is no longer "a good creature", whether his level of ex-paladin counts as a level of paladin or not.
Rules for 'falling' are pathetically archaic and pointless.