This guy/girl/other needs to be able to take on a super munchkin Skald/Barbarian/Chevalier hyper-munchkin. The idea is not to necessarily kill him, but to break his will and take him down a notch without being super obvious about it. Basically, in game and out, his character is outshining the rest of the party, and I'm not the best at designing melee-oriented encounters. This guy needs to be able to withstand huge hits and have some hope of countering his minor magical ability.
My inspiration for this npc character is a younger Robert Baratheon, warhammer and full plate and all that. The PC has around 32 AC, so big attack rolls are important.
Any advice? I excel at monster and magic encounter design, but melee on melee sort of escapes me.
level?
option I would try first-
Talk to the player? ask him to tone it down a bit?
I have, and he thinks he is, but we all prefer to handle these things in game.
Level will be around 12-13. The thing is, this player is my friend and I'd rather deal with his PC in game than I would ruin a friendship by removing him.
He's min-maxed, therefore stupid and easily manipulated. Force cage trap. He'll walk blindly forward in any open space to close distance with your BBEG.
I had to deal with a regenerating weretiger monk that decided to go off on his own and try to blitz a fortress and the results were satisfactory. No saving throw required.
Never take a munchkin head on and play his game, and instead capitalize on the sacrifices he made in his decision to Numbers his way out of situations.
Capture him, strip him, and make his friends decide if he's worth saving. Let him play with your BBEG in the end so that he's not completely left out, but let it serve as a reminder that you can and will take him with mooks alone.
If he's stat-dumped, Greater Bestow Curse. If you bring his int or wisdom below 3, he's unplayable.
Another option is to "DM fail" his rolls for a disease he may have unwittingly contracted at some point, and begin inflicting the penalties at an inopportune time. He won't know what's going on until properly diagnosed.
This is a DM to DM reminder: Never tell your players the DC of challenges or saving throws. You reserve the right to overrule the save, silently.
He will have Haste, probably Heroism, and Enlarge Person active. He's not a stupid enough player to run headfirst into a trap. He plays his character WAY smarter than his INT allows.
The idea I had from the Baratheon concept was using the Warhammer or actually a Lucerne Hammer and the 2-Handed Fighter type to sunder his armor and break his weapon. He uses no shield.
I don't have his EXACT build on me, but he has a very well-equipped character.
Inspired Blade could work, but all he would have to do is hit once to nearly cripple him.
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This is so easy.
1. Take his character sheet.
2. Make a copy of it.
3. Write 'with a goatee' on the copy.
Honestly I will second the SWB. Think more Water Dancer of Bravados and less Robert Baratheon. Lunge with Targeted strike disarm as a readied action will shut down a single melee opponent. For that matter hold a dagger till he reaches 30ft and do a thrown targeted strike to trip or disarm. Stay evasive, don't allow the player to close and give your guy a lot of extra panache than the build would really have.
Signature Deed on repost and gm fiat having it on Targeted strike as well.
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He's min-maxed, therefore stupid and easily manipulated. Force cage trap. He'll walk blindly forward in any open space to close distance with your BBEG.
I had to deal with a regenerating weretiger monk that decided to go off on his own and try to blitz a fortress and the results were satisfactory. No saving throw required.
Never take a munchkin head on and play his game, and instead capitalize on the sacrifices he made in his decision to Numbers his way out of situations.
Capture him, strip him, and make his friends decide if he's worth saving. Let him play with your BBEG in the end so that he's not completely left out, but let it serve as a reminder that you can and will take him with mooks alone.
If he's stat-dumped, Greater Bestow Curse. If you bring his int or wisdom below 3, he's unplayable.
Another option is to "DM fail" his rolls for a disease he may have unwittingly contracted at some point, and begin inflicting the penalties at an inopportune time. He won't know what's going on until properly diagnosed.
This is a DM to DM reminder: Never tell your players the DC of challenges or saving throws. You reserve the right to overrule the save, silently.
I will just say that I think this is bad advice. This sounds incredibly controlling, and it's not the DM's story, it's everyones' story, and you as a GM/DM don't really have the right to cheat the players like that. At the very least, if you want them to be weakened, push it forward as it is, don't just flip it on them. I agree with not telling them the DC beforehand, or while they're figuring it out, but you might as well have just not given them the saving throw at all if they couldn't make it. I would probably just out-hulk him.
Level 13 means it's not unreasonable to run into a level 15 NPC. Proper knight battle. Let's see what we can do here.
Ifrit Gendarme Order of the Sword Cavalier 11/Breaker Barbarian 4
LE Medium outsider(native)
Init+9, Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +5
AC 24, 9, 23
hp 154
Fort+ 17,Ref+7 ,Will +5
Speed 50 ft(Mounted)
Melee +1 Large Adamantine Lance(statistics include challenge, rage, power attack, charging) +33(+15 BAB, +9 Str, +1 WF, +1 Weapon, +4 Charge, +4 Challenge, +2 Banner, -2 for improper size,-1 buckler) 6d6+132(+13 Str, +11 Challenge, +12 Power Attack, +8 Horse Str Modx3), then free sunder on charge at +28, 2d6+38, exceeding targets hp does damage to wielder
Special Attacks rage(calculated into statistics) 12 rds/day, challenge 4/day,
Str 29 Dex 12 Con 18 Int 8 Wis 5 Cha 12
Base Atk +15; CMB+24(+28 when sundering), CMD 25
Feats Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Skill Focus (Ride), Improved Initiative, Furious Focus, Trick Riding, Mounted Skirmisher, Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder, Weapon Focus(Lance), Quick Draw
Skills Ride+26, Intimidate+19, Handle Animal +19
Languages
Special Qualities (SQ)
Destructive(Ex)Add +2 damage against unattended objects or when sundering
By My Honor(Ex)(LE)-+2 Morale Bonus to Will saving throws
Mounted Mastery(Ex)-+4 dodge against attacks set against charge, charging attacks add mounts Str mod to damage rolls
Battle Scavenger (Ex)-No pentalty on attack rolls with improvised or broken weapons. In addition, +1 damage with such weapons every 3 levels beyond third.
Mighty Charge (Ex)-Double threat while charging, then free bull rush, disarm, sunder, or trip if charge hits
Ferocious Beast(Ex)-Mount rages as well, costs extra rounds of rage
Lesser Beast Totem(Ex)-Two Primary Claw Attacks
Wildfire Heart(Ex)-+4 racial bonus to initiative
Efreeti Magic(Sp)-Enlarge or Reduce Person 1/day
Fire-Starter-Stuff
Combat Gear +1 Large Adamantine Lance, +1 Keen Nodachi, +1 Dastard Full Plate, +1 Defiant(human) Buckler Potion of Fly, Potion of Heroism(Drink if he knows combat is coming), Cloak of Resistance +2, +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, Belt of Str+4
I rejigged the base stat assumptions, but otherwise it's about heroic npc level. I might have messed something up, kind of just whipped it up, but honestly he's just a dude who has a good time against other melees. If I invested more into a single weapon he would probably be a bit better, but I tried to somewhat follow the npc guidelines. How would this work out in comparison to his character?
EDIT: If you did want to show him up a bit, you could rejig a bit into a Daring Champion Cavalier and have him pull the typical Swashbuckler shenanigans on a strong chassis with Urban barbarian too.
Is his build legal?
I mean why would he multiclass Barbarian and Skald? Does he know he can either use the Skalds Rage Powers or his Barbarian ones?
What is his favored class? Did he only apply the boni for one class?
Does he know his Cavalier mount only improves from Cavalier levels as does his Challenge?
I could see Barbarian 1/Cavalier X for Rage, but Skald/Barb/Cavalier seems more like gimping himself, unless he found some clever trick. Make shure he isn't cheating.
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I would have the villain prepare with a Mirage Arcana spell to totally change the environment.
If he charges, he runs into a chasm or some other trick.
He's min-maxed, therefore stupid and easily manipulated. Force cage trap. He'll walk blindly forward in any open space to close distance with your BBEG.
I had to deal with a regenerating weretiger monk that decided to go off on his own and try to blitz a fortress and the results were satisfactory. No saving throw required.
Never take a munchkin head on and play his game, and instead capitalize on the sacrifices he made in his decision to Numbers his way out of situations.
Capture him, strip him, and make his friends decide if he's worth saving. Let him play with your BBEG in the end so that he's not completely left out, but let it serve as a reminder that you can and will take him with mooks alone.
If he's stat-dumped, Greater Bestow Curse. If you bring his int or wisdom below 3, he's unplayable.
Another option is to "DM fail" his rolls for a disease he may have unwittingly contracted at some point, and begin inflicting the penalties at an inopportune time. He won't know what's going on until properly diagnosed.
This is a DM to DM reminder: Never tell your players the DC of challenges or saving throws. You reserve the right to overrule the save, silently.
This does not normally work on experienced players. They can sense GM shenanigans. He might not be able to prove anything, but that does not mean he wont know it.
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This does not normally work on experienced players. They can sense GM shenanigans. He might not be able to prove anything, but that does not mean he wont know it.He's min-maxed, therefore stupid and easily manipulated. Force cage trap. He'll walk blindly forward in any open space to close distance with your BBEG.
I had to deal with a regenerating weretiger monk that decided to go off on his own and try to blitz a fortress and the results were satisfactory. No saving throw required.
Never take a munchkin head on and play his game, and instead capitalize on the sacrifices he made in his decision to Numbers his way out of situations.
Capture him, strip him, and make his friends decide if he's worth saving. Let him play with your BBEG in the end so that he's not completely left out, but let it serve as a reminder that you can and will take him with mooks alone.
If he's stat-dumped, Greater Bestow Curse. If you bring his int or wisdom below 3, he's unplayable.
Another option is to "DM fail" his rolls for a disease he may have unwittingly contracted at some point, and begin inflicting the penalties at an inopportune time. He won't know what's going on until properly diagnosed.
This is a DM to DM reminder: Never tell your players the DC of challenges or saving throws. You reserve the right to overrule the save, silently.
indeed, I have noticed over the years that I have gained this miraculous super powers as well. sometimes it isn't always BAD that the GM does it, other times it was the reason I left.
You could just try using the standard Invulnerable Rager Barbarian with Come and Get Me at level 12.
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Munchkin starts having terrible dreams of facing a tyrannical black knight. Every dream has the same themes. He faces the knight, tries to fight valiantly, but can't seem to hold onto his weapons or keep his balance. Fire rages all around him. Innocent people wracked with disease beg him for help, but claw at him, puppets to the power of the Black Knight. A voice laughs all around him. The dead rise and the black knight relentlessly hammers at him with an enormous weapon. Munchkin tries to fight back, but he is a total butterfingers. He drops his weapon. Vertigo takes him and he can't keep his feat. The black knight mocks him. All around him people laugh or cry at his failure. Every dream ends the same way. Munchkin sits bolt upright, sweating and struggling, his last dream-vision of the black knight's terrible hammer swinging towards his face.
This goes on for weeks, slowly eroding his confidence and sanity. Finally, Munchkin comes face to face with his dream nemesis...
Lord of Darkness Antipaladin 12.
Nightmare Creature template.
Whatever race suits you.
High Strength, Constitution and Charisma.
Feat Selection:
Power Attack (1st), Skill Focus Intimidate (3rd), Hurtful (5th),Cornugon Smash (7th), Extra Lay On Hands (corruption) (9th), Maximize Lay on Hands (corruption) (11th).
Noteworthy Gear selection:
Adamantine Conductive Earthbreaker or Lucern hammer.
Silver Smite Bracelet (reflavored for anti paladins).
Dastard, Spell Storing armor.
+6 Strength/Con belt, +4 Charisma headband.
Max out Use Magic Device (Dangerously Curious trait). Get a Wand of Ill Omen. Use it on the Spell Storing armor.
Max out Intimidate and get a +5 or +10 skill-boosting item.
With Smite active, Knight Terror should have no problem hitting your Munchkin PC. (lowballing, I calculate a roughly +30 hit bonus. +11 Bab, +8ish str, +4 weapon, +5ish Smite, +3ish active buffs)
Your attack pattern looks like this-
With Haste and Hurtfull Knight Terror can count on having 5 attacks, 3 of them at his highest bonus. With Smite and channeled Touch of Corruption, 6d6+12 bonus damage with every hit.
Every time Knight Terror hits he rolls Intimidate to Demoralize. His first hit will leave Munchkin Shaken. This sets munchkin up for other, worse status effects which will be piled on shorty. Also on the first hit, Terror can Channel Touch of Corruption for extra damage and the Commanded cruelty. Because Munchkin is also Shaken, he'll have a penalty against the save.
From that point on, every single hit gets both Demoralize to Command (with Aura of Obedience) and the Commanded cruelty.
That's two Will saves with every hit. If Munchkin fails a will save, he drops his weapon or falls over.
If Knight Terror still has attacks left after making munchkin drop his weapon, he can attack the weapon on the ground without penalty. Smash. (This is what you use your fourth and fifth attacks in a round for. Objects on the ground have low ACs. You won't hit Munchkin with those two lower-bonus attacks at the end of your sequence, but you will hit a dropped weapon)
Spell Storing armor should be holding Ill Omen (from wand). Try to release the spell on what you expect to be Munchkin's last successful attack of the round. That way the next time Terror hits and goes for a Command, Munchkin will have to roll twice and take the lower result. If you want to be particularly awful, once Ill Omen has taken effect, have Terror step back and cast Bestow Curse or Accursed Glare. If Munchkin fails a save against either of those it's game over.
Terror is a beast in combat, but the thing that makes him really scary is his support staff.
Terror has Animate Dead and can control 48 Hit Dice worth of undead. I recommend Flaming, Skeletal Tick Swarms (swarms count as one creature and are eligible for Animate Dead. Its a nasty trick). Give Terror the human Favored Class feature that gives Paladins energy resistance, and Terror can stand in his own swarms with impunity. Plague Bringer means he can carry the tick plague himself and pass it around without being effected too. If you don't like the Swarm trick, just give him a bunch of weak Flaming Skeletons. Overlapping Flaming Auras are nasty (works extra well with the Cleaving Finish trick, which I'll cover later). (if Munchkin has Fire resist, go with some other Variant Skeleton with an energy type.)
Domination (Lord of Darkness level 11) gives Terror a free, permanent Dominate effect. This gives him a free support caster. A Flying Scarred Witch Doctor with Friend Shield and Improved Invisibility up could give Terror a whole buttload more hit points and give him plenty of combat buffs. Also, Misfortune Hex or Evil Eye and Cackle would synergize really well with Terror's Command abilities.
Fiendish Boon (Antipaladin level 5) gives a permanent Summon Monster 6 with the Advanced template. How about an Advanced Succubus? Dominate Person At Will makes for an army of otherwise innocent meat shields to complicate your hero's day.
Want some extra terrible?
Drop Extra Lay On Hands and Maximize Lay On Hands and pick up Cleave and Cleaving Finish instead. Have Succubus-Dominated locals hurling themselves suicidally into the fray.
Now, every one of Terror's swings is also a Cleave. With Cleaving Finish, every time he kills an innocent person he gets an extra attack against Munchkin.
If your version of Terror is Human, you could drop Skill Focus Intimidate and use the Human bonus feat to pick up Great Cleave and Greater Cleaving Finish. Now you get as many extra attacks against Munchkin as people you kill, every round. (this is the old bag-of-puppies whirlwind attack-cleave combination used as nightmare fuel)
Have your flying, invisible support caster cast Animate Dead every few rounds to make use of all the bodies that will be piling up. Then they can be reused as Cleaving Finish fodder, and if they are Flaming skeletons they will explode when they die too.
Unconcious Creatures are Automatically Considered Willing.
Yeah.
Take a look at the Antipaladin spell list. Now take a look at the Nightmare Creature spell abilities.
Think about it.
All it would take is for Knight Terror to stealth his way into touch range while Munchkin is sleeping, and he wakes up with a Curse. Or a Modify memory effect. Or an altered version of Mark of the Reptile God which twists Munchkin to look like Night Terror.
Give Night Terror a permanent Spectral Hand item and he doesn't even really have to get close anymore.
Screw with him. Make him feel paranoid. Make him wonder what the hell is happening. Make him feel the way his character feels.
The Nightmare spell has an unlimited range. Night Terror doesn't need to be anywhere close. He just has to be vaguely aware of Munchkin. Knight Terror's whole deal is "find powerful warriors, break them and enslave them" so if the party ran into one of Knight Terror's slaves at any point, that's good enough to make Munchkin target.
Night Terror is a Nightmare Lord. Weak people are no good to him so they get killed and turned unto undead, but powerful people are better left alive. He wants to terrify them and sap their will until they become puppets under his thrall (using the Dream Slave ability).
The best part about Knight Terror is that the showdown against Munchkin doesn't even have to be real. It can all be a dream. You can make him fight Night Terror over and over again, each time eroding his will a little more until eventually he simply gives up.
You could start the dreams with Nightmare just using his basic combat abilities. No buffs or support. Munchkin will probably win. Keep it up every night. Each time add another awful ability. Night by night, bring in the undead, the innocent victims, the fire, the Succubus, the Witch. By the time he's had enough nightmares to "unlock" all of Terror's abilities, Terror should be mopping the floor with him.
Munchkin never even has to face Night Terror in the real world to be defeated and turned into a Dominated husk of his former self.
In the end, the rest of the party will have to go on a quest to find The Knight Terror and stop him before Munchkin is lost forever. If Munchkin succumbs before they find Knight Terror, he'll actually be Knight Terror's slave, but Knight Terror could command Munchkin not to reveal that, and to make it seem for all intents and purposes like he's still fighting off the bad dreams. As the party prepares to face Knight Terror, Munchkin will be feeding Knight Terror information about all of them and their preparations. Then Knight Terror can alter his tactics accordingly.
Maybe he'll switch to Lightning-based undead for that fight, or go enslave/dominate a few of the party's loved ones, or animate a dead dragon or roc to fly around on and soften them up. Or he can just leave behind a huge mess of uncontrolled burning undead all over the countryside for the party to deal with while he goes and hides somewhere and start in with the Nightmares on another party member.
If they manage to catch him, he can Plane Shift to the Dimension of Dreams.
At some point they'll start getting items which prevent them from needing to sleep. They don't actually protect against sleep effects. Only Elves get that ability. One successful Sleep effect and a Modify Memory spell can make them forget they ever had the item in the first place.
If they somehow manage to protect themselves against nightmares, Knight Terror can easily enslave/dominate someone nearby and have them steal or break the protective item. They'll start thinking everyone is out to get them. If they somehow do it with spells, Knight Terror's Witch can dispel the effects and expose them to the Nightmare effect again.
and then, when it is all over and they finally manage to pin him down and defeat him, a combination of Feign Death, Illusions, Contingencies, and other safeguards can allow Knight Terror can easily escape death and start over again.
This build is really, really unfair. It uses the deaths of innocent people as the vehicle to gain up to 10 attacks a round, each which will deal around 8d6+36 damage and cause 2 will saves. A lot of players will feel frustrated at the futility of the situation.
The it is all a dream trick is built right into the concept, which is a great way to curb the inevitable feeling of being curb-stomped, but it might also make your players resent things even more.
Use this build at your own risk.
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This probably wont work. Even if you beat him at his own game, it will likely only serve to make him angry and to further increase his optimization.
Tell him to tone it down. If you have asked once and it has been insufficiently done, ask again. If he refuses to cooperate with you then tell him he isn't welcome. If you and the other players aren't enjoying the game because he hogs the spotlight all the time, then this challenge wont help. You're giving him what he wants. He's the star of the show. The only one that can save them all.
If you really want to get at his craw though, don't put any more combat for a while. Seriously. He's optimized for combat right?
Suddenly a very long string of social situations that must be navigated. Now what use is his +100 to hit?
If you want to defeat a munchkin, the only winning move is to not play their game.
I'm going to vote on Swashbuckler too. Targeted Strike as your Signature Deed (it was meant to work with the swashie and you're the GM) and disarm him. You don't worry about his CMD, if you hit, he drops his weapon period. Then you Targeted Strike to knock him prone (-4 to his AC helps) and you could still add the debuffs of Corrugon Smash, hurtful Cruel weapon etc.
And how much is it going to suck with this big beefy hulking monster with a huge two-handed weapon gets taken out by an itty bitty girl with a toothpick? Yeah that'll do it.
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First of all - an AC of 32 at level 12-13 isn't high. For a tank character it's rather low. (Admittedly - the below character isn't much higher due to having NPC wealth)
And frankly - with that much multiclassing - I'm dubious that the character is exceptionally powerful. My guess is that the rest of the party is simply below the power curve.
But - here we go.
Human Fighter 14 - NPC heroic wealth - CR 12 (not a solo encounter - should have plenty of mooks along for the ride - including some low level spellcasters to buff him beyond the below stats - and maybe a buffing bard to 'proclaim' him)
Str:22
Dex:19
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:12
Cha:7
AC:33 (+4 vs crit confirms and can negate 1 crit per day) Flatfooted:29 Touch:15
Fort:+13
Ref:+10
Will:+10 (additional +4 vs fear)
Initiative: +6
HP:130 (if using PFS HP rules)
Attack: +27/+22/+17 with hammer for 1d8+15(x3) AND +22/+17/+12 for 2d6+5(x2)
Gear: +2 Full Plate / +2 bashing heavy shield / + 1 ring of def / +1 am nat armor / + 2 warhammer / belt str/dex +2 / ioun ston: clear spindle in wayfinder (immune to domination etc) / cloak resis +2
Feats : TWF / ITWF / GTWF / Improved Shield Bash / Shield Slam / Shield Master / Shield Focus / Improved Shield Focus / Shield Spec / Improved Shield Spec / Iron Will / WF: Warhammer / Weapon Spec / G Weapon Focus / G Weapon Spec
Traits : +2 Initiative / +1 Will
Mechanically it'd be a bit better to have the primary weapon be a close weapon to have Weapon Training for all attacks - or better yet have him using a pair of shields with the Shield Trained feat so Weapon Focus/Spec feats all apply - but this fits the theme you were going for.
I'm pretty sure all the #s are right - but you might want to double check.
Again - make sure he's buffed decently. A level 7-8 bard (insignificant CR for the party) could buff him with heroism, haste, and inspire courage with ease, giving him a total buff of +5 to hit, +2 damage, +2 all saves, additional +2 vs charm/fear, +1 AC, and an extra swing with his warhammer. (Heroism up before the fight - Haste & Inspire Courage the first round.) With the buffs - the 'munchkin' AC of 32 will be paltry, since his bonus to hit with hit top two attacks will be at +32, and even his weakest (of 7) swing will be at +17 and have a shot of connecting.
Against an AC of 32 his average full attack damage will be 99.9625. If you want to make sure the munchkin's character not killed - trade out the warhammer for a slashing weapon and give him the Blade of Mercy trait to do non-lethal with his main hand.
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Have a group of rogues take him down. Use goz masks and guns / bottled lightning. Or a group of tieflings with fiendsight (2) and deeper darkness. A band of killers hired by an old adversary to settle the score. Make the knowledge local roles to determine his background, scout his patterns, and choose an inconvenient time to strike.
snip.
Dear god, that is terrifying. Also I love how it basically comes with an adventure plan. Now all the GM has to do is make some maps of a secluded nightmare castle and it's off to the races!
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want to 1v1? - to keep with your hammer guy
human- Invulnerable rager 14 (solo encounter for your dude alone)
heart of the fields
25pt buy
Str: 22 (17+2+3) (28, 34 when raging)
Dex: 14
Con: 16 (22, 28 when raging)
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 08
Rage Powers-
2-Beast totem, lesser
4-Superstition
6-Beast totem
7-Reckless abandon
8-Witch Hunter
9-increased damage reduction
10-Beast totem greater
12- Come and get me
Feats:
1- power attack,exotic, wep prof. Falchion
3- Raging vitality
5- weapon focus Falchion
7- extra rage power
9- extra rage power
11- combat reflexes
13- lunge
Gear: +3 Furious keen Falchion(50k), +6 belt of physical Might(90k) (str/con), cloak of resistance +2 9k,
still with about 30k gold left over for whatever you want.
offense while raging-
To Hit: +35 to hit while raging +31 when power attacking Note, if you use reckless abandon you negate power attack penalties.
damage: 2d6+38when power attacking (12+6+12+5+3)
Crit: 16-20x3
Defense:
AC: who cares, sure he will hit, barb doesn't care
HP (via PFS- 196, 252 while raging)
DR8/-
Fort: +17 (21 when raging) Ref:+8, Will: +15 when raging.
Does that do it well enough?
you when int? Pounce him with lunge, smack him with-
+35/30/25
2d6+38 damage a hit. Then you get an AoO, THEN hit with come and get me.
From my experience, beating a powergamer will do nothing, but bolster his/her perception that he needs to build his character even more powerful.
Try to add a caster to some encounters, or an ability to solo monsters, that have an hihg save (or no save) to debilitate him, so he will become at the same level as his partners. A single curse spell if he has low will, a ray of effeblement if he has low touch AC, dispel magic with high CL if he is buffed, whatever in this line will work to make him just as effective as the others.
If he asks why is he the target of this kind of spells/abilities, its your opportunity to talk him about his unreasonable powergaming. Say you can let him build his character as powerful as he wants, but you will even it with the others. Perhaps he will realize that "resistance is futile" and play more relaxed.
If he is a Munchkin (I understand it as a being a cheater) then you have to talk to him. He is your friend, but you are his friend too, so he must not cheat in your game.
I like it - but you gave him more than PC level wealth. Not generally a good idea for PCs to fight people with that much gear - or their own wealth gets out of hand super fast.
Meh, fudge it. Lower the bonuses of his items. Give his Dominated witch Craft Wondrous Item to cut cost. The only gear that is essential is the Conductive weapon and the Intimidate item. The rest is optional.
There's tons of ways to get money at that level. Remember, this is a guy who kills or dominates pretty much everyone he comes across. He could have built up one hell of a treasure horde by that point. He's not a PC, so the Wealth rules don't really apply.
In older editions, Drow gear would melt in the sun once the PCs get it. I'd probably re-use that with a "dream gear" twist and have the Knight Terror's equipment face into the Dream Dimension when it is removed from him.
Nothing says a GM has to let the PCs keep the spoils of war.
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He's not a PC, so the Wealth rules don't really apply.
Not even the NPC Wealth Rules?
And I'm not saying you can't logic how he has gold out the wazoo - but the same is true for PCs.
And I'm not saying you can't do it - just that it's an issue which should be noted.
(As a player - I'd get grumpy about deus ex making me losing the gear.)
Unfortunately your plan to handle it game will accomplish nothing. So you beat his character. If he isn't dead, then he still has his broken character. Which you just embarrassed. Normally when you embarrass someone the bulk up to fix the chink in their armor. The only way to handle it in game is to kill his player, immediately reincarnate his character into another race that is inferior and cast a couple of wishes to block him from being restored.
Obviously if your friendship can handle the above, then your friendship can handle an out of game talk about how his character is to much and to really rework his character to where he is still effective but not over the top.
He's not a PC, so the Wealth rules don't really apply.Not even the NPC Wealth Rules?
And I'm not saying you can't logic how he has gold out the wazoo - but the same is true for PCs.
And I'm not saying you can't do it - just that it's an issue which should be noted.
(As a player - I'd get grumpy about deus ex making me losing the gear.)
You ninja'd my edit!
As mentioned, the only essential gear is the Conductive weapon and the Intimidate item. The rest is pretty much optional. The majority of Terror's effectiveness comes from abilities. Even with zero gear, he's still pretty terrifying.
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Gear: +3 Furious keen Falchion(50k), +6 belt of physical Might(90k) (str/con), cloak of resistance +2 9k,
still with about 30k gold left over for whatever you want.
Again - NPCs don't have that much gear. A level 14 Heroic NPC should only have 34.8k in gear total. That falchion alone is far too much.
Also - your # for the cloak is wrong. You can get a +3 cloak for 9k. (Not that a level 14 NPC would likely spring for the +3.)
Gear: +3 Furious keen Falchion(50k), +6 belt of physical Might(90k) (str/con), cloak of resistance +2 9k,
still with about 30k gold left over for whatever you want.
Again - NPCs don't have that much gear. A level 14 Heroic NPC should only have 34.8k in gear total. That falchion alone is far too much.
Also - your # for the cloak is wrong. You can get a +3 cloak for 9k. (Not that a level 14 NPC would likely spring for the +3.)
Oh, I see where you're getting your numbers!
"Boss" characters are usually designed with full PC wealth. If you don't design them that way, no NPC villain can become a Lich until 20th level. That's just unfortunate.
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In addition to my previous post, if his character is not over powered but the the other players in the party are under combat powered, then work with the other players to reselect some of their abilities. If they don't want to do this, then you can continue the game as is. The issue isn't your friend, it's the other players.
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If you don't design them that way, no NPC villain can become a Lich until 20th level. That's just unfortunate.
I don't think that the phylactery would count towards their wealth level - that's just what makes them a lich. Just like an NPC's castle, lands, and hired guards don't count towards their wealth level.
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This is so easy.
1. Take his character sheet.
2. Make a copy of it.
3. Write 'with a goatee' on the copy.
Indeed.
The best way, I've found, to deal with munchkins is to "admit they won" and say you can't handle dealing with their build, and simply ask them to re-do (within new guidelines, if need be).
The great part is you can paradoxically make the entire process a reward: Exercise GM Eminent Domain to use the build as a badass BBEG. It's win/win. You get to keep a table under control, and the player gets to indulge in his deepest, darkest munchkinnery to try to overcome his previous creation.
Since he's your friend, just explain the situation to him openly. If he catches on that you're trying to "put him in his place", he'll be more irritated than if you had just talked to him. Even if he doesn't, just beating his character won't solve anything: If you shock him with one overwhelming "boss" and things go back to normal afterward, he'll just think it was a fight that the PC's were never likely to win, and was meant to introduce a BBEG nemesis into the storyline. If you make all their encounters harder from now on, the other party members will feel even less useful. If you kill his character, at level 13+ he could be resurrected by the team Cleric. If you contrive it so that his character is gone and can't be brought back, he'll make a new character, more powerful than the old one.
Your best bet is to figure out exactly why his character is more powerful than the rest. Can you post character builds, or at least more mechanical details, of both the putative munchkin and the rest of the party? A multiclass Barbarian/Skald/Chevalier (of all things) doesn't sound like something a powergamer would make. Maybe there's something I haven't thought of, but it sounds like the rest of the party might be far behind the curve.
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No optimizer/powergamer/min-maxer ever will respond to defeat with the realization that they need to pull back.
All this will do is justify his efforts: "See? I have to optimize because this is the kind of stuff we face and no one else can handle it." He will come back harder, better, faster, stronger.
When all else fails, clone the problem character, reflavor it, and throw it at the party as an encounter.
Let them figure out how to beat it, and then use it against them.
In game its easy to justify, if the character is so unstoppable, word of them probably gets around and others will try to do what he does so that they can be unstoppable too. Then when the cracks in the armor become apparent, word gets around that the unstoppable character can be stopped by simply saying his name backwards or whatever gets around too.
Same tactic I use to test out houserules that the players want. My favorite was them wanting called shots to the head to be instant death, but at a massive penalty. They all wanted it, so I said okay.
The next encounter was kobold sorcerers with crossbows casting True Strike and making called shots to the PC's heads. From behind elevated cover.
After the TPK I asked if they wanted to keep the houserule and roll new characters, or pretend this never happened. They never asked for called shots again.
Mr. Fishy needs Saves and Touch AC. 12th level barbarian/skald...
In addition to my previous post, if his character is not over powered but the the other players in the party are under combat powered, then work with the other players to reselect some of their abilities. If they don't want to do this, then you can continue the game as is. The issue isn't your friend, it's the other players.
I pretty much disagree with everything here. An "overpowered character" doesn't exist until you compare it to the other players. If you have a 78 Armor Class at level 5 it's not over powered if everyone else is in the 70's too. It's how it scales with everyone else. Everyone doing 60 points of damage per swing at first level is exactly the same as everyone doing 6 points of damage per swing at first level. In the former, the GM's monsters will have 600 hP in the latter it will be 60. In both cases 10 swings kills it. The problems come when you have one person that does 60 and the rest do 6.
You conclusion that the one person who is out of balance is the only right one seems ridiculous to me. You don't restructure a whole campaign because of one player's wants.
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In addition to my previous post, if his character is not over powered but the the other players in the party are under combat powered, then work with the other players to reselect some of their abilities. If they don't want to do this, then you can continue the game as is. The issue isn't your friend, it's the other players.I pretty much disagree with everything here. An "overpowered character" doesn't exist until you compare it to the other players. If you have a 78 Armor Class at level 5 it's not over powered if everyone else is in the 70's too. It's how it scales with everyone else. Everyone doing 60 points of damage per swing at first level is exactly the same as everyone doing 6 points of damage per swing at first level. In the former, the GM's monsters will have 600 hP in the latter it will be 60. In both cases 10 swings kills it. The problems come when you have one person that does 60 and the rest do 6.
You conclusion that the one person who is out of balance is the only right one seems ridiculous to me. You don't restructure a whole campaign because of one player's wants.
What I'm saying is IF after accuracy check, the character is not over powered, then look at the other players. If they choose to specialize in non combat roles, don't penalize the guy who is playing his guy effectively.
EDITED to add:
It is already stated that his AC is only 32. That is not a big deal. Depending on his other stats,they to may not be a big deal. It might mean that the other players are so non combat focused that they haven't put up the numbers that the friend had to make up for their inadequacies.
EDITED to add:
It is already stated that his AC is only 32. That is not a big deal.
You're still not understanding me: You say a 32 AC isn't a big deal, what are you basing that off? How can you say it's "Not a big deal"? You have absolutely no idea if it's a big deal or not. All you can say is that in the games you play, this would be no big deal. You see if this were a Dark Sun campaign, a 32 AC at level 20 would be absolutely crazy high. Are they playing a Dark Sun campaign? Can you say for sure they're not?
Judging by your statements, you seem to think there are certain builds that you can look at and will be universally accepted as "over-powered". This is also not true.
You're making the assumption that everyone plays like you do. They don't. In the situation we have the GM and every player but one playing the exact same way. It's hard to justify telling all of them are wrong and the one person on their own page is right.
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You're still not understanding me: You say a 32 AC isn't a big deal, what are you basing that off? How can you say it's "Not a big deal"? You have absolutely no idea if it's a big deal or not.EDITED to add:
It is already stated that his AC is only 32. That is not a big deal.
While technically it's based upon the assumption of standard PC wealth - give or take - it's not a very big assumption.
Considering the OP came on here and asked for build advice - it's a pretty safe assumption that he isn't in some low magic world etc or he would have mentioned it and asked for the build to be made with that in mind.
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You're still not understanding me: You say a 32 AC isn't a big deal, what are you basing that off?EDITED to add:
It is already stated that his AC is only 32. That is not a big deal.
The fact that they are level 12-13. Without such clarifications from the OP, there is no reason to assume Dark Sun is the setting.
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EDITED to add:
It is already stated that his AC is only 32. That is not a big deal.You're still not understanding me: You say a 32 AC isn't a big deal, what are you basing that off? How can you say it's "Not a big deal"? You have absolutely no idea if it's a big deal or not. All you can say is that in the games you play, this would be no big deal. You see if this were a Dark Sun campaign, a 32 AC at level 20 would be absolutely crazy high. Are they playing a Dark Sun campaign? Can you say for sure they're not?
Judging by your statements, you seem to think there are certain builds that you can look at and will be universally accepted as "over-powered". This is also not true.
You're making the assumption that everyone plays like you do. They don't. In the situation we have the GM and every player but one playing the exact same way. It's hard to justify telling all of them are wrong and the one person on their own page is right.
I'm not making any assumptions. I'm asking the gm to do some evaluation of all the character's pcs. I'm also asking the gm to do some evaluations of the campaign leading up to this point. Did the make his character more beefy because he was tired of all the close calls and felt someone needed to pick up the slack.
You on the other hand are making a lot of assumptions about me.