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hey all, been asking lots of things lately, but still got another, whats the public's opinion on the most efficient TWF style for a ranger.
Idea is too have lead blades up most of the time during fights.
would give me 2d6+ 1d8 if both hit, while the other gives me 2d8 if both it.
also, thematically longsowrd+shortsword is slightly cooler imo (just slightly, ever so slightly)
while the shortsword shortsword lets me take 1 weapon focus feat for both.
1d8 for a shortsword? Are you a large-sized character?
Averages:
1d6=3.5
1d8=4.5
2d6=7.0
Nothing wrong with it, but you've already pointed out the issue. You have to either neglect a weapon or use up double feats. You're probably better off to just ignore feats for the shortsword and focus on the longsword, as you will only get to attack with the longsword when not making a full attack.
Either way its only -2/-2 but, as you said, a single weapon proficiency puts your attacks at +0/-1 right off the bat (not including your strength bonus, of course), which is a less terrible start than -1/-1 or +0/-2.
He said Lead Blaes is in play.
Here's the thing, TWFing with two different weapons is mechanically the WORST melee style in the game, unless that second weapon is a shield.
It just doubles your cost for Feats, especially ones important to TWFing characters like Improved Critical (which is one of the big DPR boosters that makes TWFing worthwhile at higher levels).
I'd go with two Shortwords, or two Kukris. The latter is better mechanically (18-20/x2, 1d6 damage with Lead Blades), but if you want the extra +1 damage from dice, I guess go Shortswords.
You want shortswords. That way you can eventually acquire a bastard sword Sun Sword and still treat it like a shortsword.
Weapon Focus and such feats will also stack, if applicable.
If you aren't planning on a Sun Sword, go long and short. The reason is that you can two hand the longsword against stuff you don't want to take the -2 penalty to hit on, then you'll realize you're doing more damage two handing, and only go TWF against really wimpy creatures.
I'm kind of curious why you didn't take the best TWF style, which is Sword and Board. Same damage as a short sword, but your AC ends up being +2 to +7 higher.
==Aelryinth
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As a third option - you could pick up a double weapon. Heck - if you go with a half-orc, you get proficiency with the double-axe for free. In addition to getting a base d8 damage with both sides, when you can't full attack you get 1.5x strength damage by two-handing it.
If you have a spare exotic weapon feat lying around, two bladed sword is a decent option.
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If you think the longsword/short sword combo is cooler, play that.
Don't worry about anything else. Play what you think would be the most fun for your character concept. Everything else will take care of itself.
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atm using my sheet and gear- assuming power attack and that both hit.
two short swords-
+8/+8
damage: 1d8+10 (power attack thrown in)
longsword/shortsword-
+8/+7
damage: 2d6+10 1d8+10
twin blades-
+8/+8
damage: 4d6+20 - clearly this is the better weapon as far as TWF goes.
either twin blade or long sword can be 2handed for-
+10
Damage: 2d6+15
I second going double weapon. the flexibility to go back and forth between TWF & THF, witout the need for quickdraw, to take advantage of fighting vs. high DR opponents is worth it
If you were thinking of getting focus in both longsword and shortsword anyway, then think of it like this:
2 feats:
Weapon focus for both long and short sword
-or-
Exotic Proficiency in double and weapon focus in the double.
do weapon buffs (like say a class can give his weapon flaming as an ability) effect both or one end of the weapon?
It's almost always only one end, unless it specifies otherwise.
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2 feats:
Weapon focus for both long and short sword
-or-
Exotic Proficiency in double and weapon focus in the double.
Except that there are several ways to gain proficiency with a double weapon without actually paying a feat.
Race: Half-orc (double axe/ dire flail) - Half-elf (any)
Spending 1,500 for a cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone (plus 500 for a wayfinder to hide it in I suppose) makes any weapon count as martial.
So - if you don't want to be stuck with a race - do the longsword/shortword thing until level 2-3 when you can afford 2000gp to get proficiency with a double sword. (or whichever double weapon you'd prefer)
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If you have the extra feat or the ioun stone mentioned above, you could go for sawtooth sabres: long sword damage that counts as a light weapon for TWF.
Unless you're doing the dex to damage trick - this would be the same as a double weapon only without the option for 1.5x strength either when not full attacking or when against significant DR.
it may not be an excellent weapon, but there is a simple double weapon you can use as a member of any Race, the Quarterstaff. i wouldn't disrespect it. i think the suggestion might be needed, it might not have much critical chance, but it doesn't require a feat, you can sneak it into communities with weapon bans, it is a powerful candidate for the Shillelagh spell, and oils of Shillelagh are a cheap 50 gold pieces a pop. so you needn't spend 2 rounds and 2 spell slots when 1 standard action and a 50GP potion does the trick. under the effects of Shillelagh, each end or a quarterstaff does 2d6 base weapon damage and counts as magic. i will say it isn't quite optimal, just resource light,
1d8 for a shortsword? Are you a large-sized character?lead blades increases the size by 1 for damage die. (it wouldn't ALWAYS be active, but for most of the important fights, it would be.)
Ah, I was reading that as "LEED blades" which just seemed like an odd way to say one's main weapon.
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Yes you can, just as they aren't light weapons, you will suffer for it.
They are one handed slashing weapons for a LOT of damage.
If only there was a weapon that dealt 1D4 of damage, got a crit on a seventeen to twenty, multiplied the damage by five and dealt bludgeoning or piercing damage.
A one handed light weapon
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Yes you can, just as they aren't light weapons, you will suffer for it.
Technically yes - but the additional -2 to hit isn't worth the extra crit damage. Even with improved crit or keen it's only 16.7% more damage than a standard 19-20 crit weapon, and the -2 to hit would drop your damage output more than that against virtually all potential targets.
And that's comparing the falcatta to sawtoothed sabres for a direct comparison which are themselves a slightly subpar choice and ignoring targets which are either immune or resistant to crit hits in which case the falcatta is ONLY disadvantageous. (resistant being targets with fortification etc) In addition to ignoring the overkill which x3 crit often gives and is included in the 16.7% extra damage - as doing damage more than a target's HP isn't useful.
The falcatta is a great choice for sword & board if you're willing to spend the feat, or at very high levels it's slightly beneficial for two-handed combatants in comparison to a nodachi if you're willing to burn the feat. (And you aren't taking the additional crit effect feats in either case as then you'd want the wider crit effect.) But it's bad for TWF.
If your dm allows it, you can use effortless lace to dual wield falcata with no penalty.
Edit: well no size penalty I mean.
A Two-Bladed Double Sword has several advantages, and as it's been said you can get with either Half-Elf race or an ioun stone.
- 1d8/1d8, so your damage with lead blades or impact will scale right to 2d6, skiping the low damage upgrade of the short sword from 1d6 to 1d8.
- You can choose as a free action to hold it as a 2h weapon and deal STR x1.5 if you have to walk and strike or use an AoO when it's not your turn.
- You won't have to drop one of your weapons if you want to draw a throwing one or use your hand for something else.
- It's debatable, but you can be considered to have a free hand in order to use feats like deflect arrows, snatch arrows, or anything else that requires a free hand.
- It's only one weapon, so any feats you take on it, like weapon focus, apply to both ends, different from a longsword and a shortsword.
A downside is that, if you have 2 weapons, it's easier to replace just one if you find a better one, unless your DM allows you to replace the ends of the weapon.
Between the Double-Sword and the Double-Axe, I like the sword better, with more chances to crit rather than heavier crits. I tend to think more damage will be wasted with a crit x3, overkilling the enemies.
You enhance each end separately.
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A Two-Bladed Double Sword has several advantages, and as it's been said you can get with either Half-Elf race or an ioun stone.
- 1d8/1d8, so your damage with lead blades or impact will scale right to 2d6, skiping the low damage upgrade of the short sword from 1d6 to 1d8.
- You can choose as a free action to hold it as a 2h weapon and deal STR x1.5 if you have to walk and strike or use an AoO when it's not your turn.
- You won't have to drop one of your weapons if you want to draw a throwing one or use your hand for something else.
- It's debatable, but you can be considered to have a free hand in order to use feats like deflect arrows, snatch arrows, or anything else that requires a free hand.
- It's only one weapon, so any feats you take on it, like weapon focus, apply to both ends, different from a longsword and a shortsword.
A downside is that, if you have 2 weapons, it's easier to replace just one if you find a better one, unless your DM allows you to replace the ends of the weapon.
Between the Double-Sword and the Double-Axe, I like the sword better, with more chances to crit rather than heavier crits. I tend to think more damage will be wasted with a crit x3, overkilling the enemies.
It's 'debatable' in the sense that it is physically possible to 'debate' it.
But there really is a correct answer. You certainly can let go with one hand at the end of your own turn as a free action, leaving one hand 'free' to Deflect Arrows, Crane Wing and so forth. You can then re-grip the thing in two hands at the start of your next turn as another free action.
There is a consequence for doing so, and that is that you will not be able to use it to execute any AoOs between your turns; you will not threaten with it. It is a two-handed weapon and cannot be used one-handed (without a special ability that lets you), and you cannot use free actions outside of your own turn (with a handful of exceptions), and it requires a free action to re-grip.
Dual Falcata isn't as bad as people make it out to be, since it has the added benefit of a considerably larger die along with the best available crits. Compared to dual Kukri, you're paying -2ab for +2damage (lead blades +3.5) and a boost to crits. Still probably not worth it depending on how everything else comes together, but people get overly worried about small ab penalties when they'll take Power Attack without thinking twice.
One possible style that's often overlooked is using Unarmed Strike as an offhand with a gauntlet or a cestus or just Improved Unarmed; it allows for seamless switching between TWF and THF like a double-weapon does, but without forcing you to use a double weapon. It can get interesting if you take Dragon Style, overriding your first offhand's normal strength bonus with 1.5x. If you take a level of Monk or Brawler, you can treat your offhand as a mainhand for strength and power attack. Hell, with a level of Master of Many Styles Monk you could be working your offhand with Dragon Style, Dragon Ferocity and a main-hand power attack bonus while using a Cestus for a 19-20x2 critical - and then cross that with yet another style.
Should you be a half-orc there is a nice feat for the double-axe: Orc weapon expertise. It lets you pick one bonus from a list of bonuses, one being a shield bonus to AC when wielding the weapon. For two-handed weapons like the double axe it is +2 to AC.
I love the Orc Double Axe - just one of the more menacing weapons in the game.