Strongest level 0 spell

[Tacticslion]

But it costs you an acid flask every time. Not exactly cost-effective.
(It's not bad, just expensive.)

EDIT: ninja'd

[Imbicatus]

Dracovar wrote:

Brimstone component: 5 sp
Acid flask: 10 gp

(plus a 10 gp Acid Flask focus - but that is reusable)

So, the expendables are going to cost you 10.5 gp per shot. You've got yourself up to nice damage, but now, how do we mitigate the cost?

Craft Alchemy will reduce it, but really, 10.5 gp per shot is a pittance. Gunslingers pay more for ammo than that.

[Imbicatus]

And if you really want to get past it, you could take the False Focus feat and just replace those components with a holy symbol. (I wouldn't allow this in my game, and wouldn't do it, but it is RAW.)

[Tacticslion]

Imbicatus wrote:

And if you really want to get past it, you could take the False Focus feat and just replace those components with a holy symbol. (I wouldn't allow this in my game, and wouldn't do it, but it is RAW.)

Okay, this is actually a cool idea. I like it. It requires a feat to become a strong spell, but it's still a cool idea.

Otherwise it kind of doesn't pass the bar when you compare it to the effect of other cantrips, because you're actively expending resources each time, instead of getting your "oomph" for free.

That said, I stand by my earlier analysis. While Acid Splash is certainly increased by a fair margin in power (probably actually bumping off prestidigitation for an adventurer's number three) with that combination, it's just "pretty reliable" without it.

[Dracovar]

I'm going to put in my 2 cents for...

1) Prestidigitation. For all the reasons mentioned above.
2) Arcane Mark. Besides being handy for that extra attack for the Magus, it has a few other good utility uses.

Arcane Mark - Invisible option. Nice that it has no material component and a permanent duration.

So, I put an invisible mark on a ring or something. Someone gets nosey and is scanning me with a Detect Magic? The Mark on the ring starts to glow - nice warning.

Invisible mark as an alarm/warning - my prisons (just one example) would be riddled with them. Who would try breaking into a prison without having a Detect Magic on? Well, their scanning will trigger visual alerts for the guards that someone (possibly even via scry) is doing some recon. Every business that wants a bit of security might have their stores littered with Arcane Marks as a deterrent to would be thieves who are casing the joint checking for magical traps.

Invisible mark as a trigger - both Programmed Image and Magic Mouth can key off of visual queues. So, Detect Magic triggers the invisible Arcane Mark, whose appearance then triggers a Magic Mouth or Programmed Image. The possibilities from that combo are left to your imagination. Both Magic Mouth and Programmed Image have "permanent until triggered" durations which also fit nicely with the Arcane Mark's permanent duration.

[Treefolk]

My favorite is a low level combo that takes a little more effort but results in a rewarding level 0 alternative to lugging about a light crossbow all based on Ray of Frost.

Rime-Blooded Socerer
Liquid Ice: Ray of Frost (F): The spell deals +1 point of damage

End result is a 0 level spell that forces the target to take 1d3+1 damage and make a DC10+Cha Mod or be Slowed.

IMO save vs slow is better then the couple of points of damage you get from using a crossbow (also easier to land).

[Mark Hoover]

Treefolk wrote:

My favorite is a low level combo that takes a little more effort but results in a rewarding level 0 alternative to lugging about a light crossbow all based on Ray of Frost.

Rime-Blooded Socerer
Liquid Ice: Ray of Frost (F): The spell deals +1 point of damage

End result is a 0 level spell that forces the target to take 1d3+1 damage and make a DC10+Cha Mod or be Slowed.

IMO save vs slow is better then the couple of points of damage you get from using a crossbow (also easier to land).

Rime Blooded slows, yes but only for a number of rounds equal to the level of the spell. Since it's level 0 they're slowed for 0 rounds.

[snickersimba]

I originally had a half elf sorc who had the water elemental bloodline

I never want to play a sorcerer again.

They are my least favorite class as they simply are terrible at anything unless you manage to pull some nonsense involving some feats and a dual blooded sorc with something fancy.

that is far too much for me, I want to roleplay and also not suck horribly at combat when I try to make a blaster.

I vote puetrify food and drink, because it is annoying and annoying people is awesome.

[keyafay]

Due to the Re-roll rules, when re-rolling you take a Negative to your attempt unless the conditions have changed.

So when you cast Guidance not only do you get a +1, the conditions have changed and you can negate the negative to the re-roll.

Example: You do a knowledge check and didn’t get a good result (rolled a 1) but you pray to your god for help changing the condition. So not only do you skip the negative re-roll adjustment, you gain a +1 to the next roll.

[RDM42]

Àcid splash is useful for finishing off, for example trolls.

[pipedreamsam]

Throw in another vote for Presti. Here's a thread that gets necro'ed every few months:

This is a link to a thread about Prestidigitation

Still a long way from 1001.

[Fnipernackle]

I really like Awaken from 101 0 Level Spells.

I also like the Echo spells from Headless Hydra's Eldritch Secrets. There's one for each element and do 1d6 damage on a ranged touch. Only thin is you have to have a 1st level or higher spell prepared that deals the same type of damage to be able to use it. Better for sorcerers than wizards.

Finally, Omen Casting is another one of my favorites.

[graystone]

Penumbra is pretty awesome for a cantrip. It effectively negates the weakness of several races at the cost of a cantrip.

Ray of frost is pretty sweet too. Combined with False Focus feat and it rocks. It has the cool reagent effect of creating an icicle of frozen water vapor that strikes the target and deals 1d3 points of piercing damage and 1 point of cold damage. The fact that it no longer deals all energy damage means that a warpriest can use their Sacred Weapon damage with it. [two worlds trait to gain ray of frost on warpriest]

[Lord Foul II]

graystone wrote:

Penumbra is pretty awesome for a cantrip. It effectively negates the weakness of several races at the cost of a cantrip.

Ray of frost is pretty sweet too. Combined with False Focus feat and it rocks. It has the cool reagent effect of creating an icicle of frozen water vapor that strikes the target and deals 1d3 points of piercing damage and 1 point of cold damage. The fact that it no longer deals all energy damage means that a warpriest can use their Sacred Weapon damage with it. [two worlds trait to gain ray of frost on warpriest]

i am so going to use this for a character concept later.

[graystone]

Lord Foul II wrote:

graystone wrote:

Penumbra is pretty awesome for a cantrip. It effectively negates the weakness of several races at the cost of a cantrip.

Ray of frost is pretty sweet too. Combined with False Focus feat and it rocks. It has the cool reagent effect of creating an icicle of frozen water vapor that strikes the target and deals 1d3 points of piercing damage and 1 point of cold damage. The fact that it no longer deals all energy damage means that a warpriest can use their Sacred Weapon damage with it. [two worlds trait to gain ray of frost on warpriest]

i am so going to use this for a character concept later.

If you do, think about metamagic reducer traits [even if you have to take Extra traits] and collect metamagics. [Wayang Spellhunter,

These have 0-2 spell level adjustment so it's possible to still use them with a 0 level spell and keep it 0 level.
Bouncing Spell
Consecrate Spell
Disruptive Spell
Ectoplasmic Spell
Empower Spell
Merciful Spell

[Imbicatus]

I like Heightened Rime spell. It's still level 0, but counts as a level 1 spell and will entangle as well as damage.

[graystone]

Imbicatus wrote:

I like Heightened Rime spell. It's still level 0, but counts as a level 1 spell and will entangle as well as damage.

I'm unsure how Heightened interacts with metamagic reductions since it doesn't work like other metamagics. That's why I didn't list any that relied on spell level.

[L'cutus]

What about heightened-empowered-maximized-presdigitation to make Extreme Firehouse Chili.

[Gisher]

Imbicatus wrote:

I like Heightened Rime spell. It's still level 0, but counts as a level 1 spell and will entangle as well as damage.

I don't think it does. Rime Spell entangles for a number of rounds equal to "the original level of the spell." The original level of Ray of Frost is 0, not 1.

Heighten Spell "increases the effective level of a spell that it modifies." If a spell's level is modified, then it isn't the original level.

[Imbicatus]

Gisher wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

I like Heightened Rime spell. It's still level 0, but counts as a level 1 spell and will entangle as well as damage.

I don't think it does. Rime Spell entangles for a number of rounds equal to "the original level of the spell." The original level of Ray of Frost is 0, not 1.

Heighten Spell "increases the effective level of a spell that it modifies." If a spell's level is modified, then it isn't the original level.

I can see the merit of that argument, but I still feel that since heighten says "All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level", it would effect Rime Spell's entangle duration as well.

[Gisher]

Imbicatus wrote:

Gisher wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

I like Heightened Rime spell. It's still level 0, but counts as a level 1 spell and will entangle as well as damage.

I don't think it does. Rime Spell entangles for a number of rounds equal to "the original level of the spell." The original level of Ray of Frost is 0, not 1.

Heighten Spell "increases the effective level of a spell that it modifies." If a spell's level is modified, then it isn't the original level.

I can see the merit of that argument, but I still feel that since heighten says "All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level", it would effect Rime Spell's entangle duration as well.

Heighten Spell doesn't increase the duration of Rime Spell. Metamagic feats act on the spell itself, not on other metamagic feats. They aren't metametamagic feats.

The only way that Heighten Spell could increase the duration of the entangle effect would be by changing the original spell level, but it doesn't do that. It increases the effects dependent on spell level, but the original spell level is not an effect which is dependent on the spell level. In fact, by definition the original spell level can't be changed. If you change a zero level spell to a fifth level spell, it still was originally a zero level spell.

[LazarX]

Exguardi wrote:

Arcane Mark and/or Brand seem like superior "combat" cantrips to Acid Splash, if only due to the fact that they can be used to grant a Magus "free" Two-Weapon Fighting.

I don't recall ANYONE ever preparing Arcane Mark before the advent of the Magus class. Some folks would prepare Brand just to get their Sadistic cred up.

[Imbicatus]

I used Arcane Mark all the time back in 3.5, just for the graffiti and Zorro marking. I still prefer it to brand for that purpose since brand allows a save.

[Akerlof]

If we're pulling reduced cost metamagic tricks:

Threatening Ghost Sound gives your rogue a flanking buddy against anyone with a poor to moderate will save, so should be good against martials until at least the mid levels.

Heighten Shenanigans:

I don't think you can heighten something and then lower it back to level 0 with a trait:

Remember the FAQ on Magical Lineage:

FAQ wrote:

Magical Lineage (trait): Can I use this trait to adjust a spell's effective level below the unmodified spell's original level?

No. For example, it won't allow you to alter a wizard's fireball into 2nd-level spell.

Then there is the whole Heighten Spell FAQ:

FAQ wrote:

Heighten Spell: How does this spell combine with other metamagic feats and using higher-level slots for lower-level spells?

Heighten Spell is worded poorly and can be confusing. It lets you use a higher-level spell slot for a spell, treating the spell as if it were naturally a higher level spell than the standard version. Unlike Still Spell, which always adds +1 to the level of the spell slot used for a spell, Heighten Spell lets you decide increase a spell's level anywhere from +1 to +9, using a spell slot that is that many spell levels higher than the normal spell.

The language implies that the heightened spell uses whatever spell level is used to prepare or cast it, but the rules text was inherited from 3.5 and doesn't take into account (1) the normal rule allowing you to prepare a spell with a higher-level spell slot, and (2) combining it with other metamagic feats.

For (1), having Heighten Spell doesn't mean any spell you cast with a higher-level slot is automatically heightened; you still have to make the decision to prepare or cast the spell an normal or heightened.
If you are a non-spontaneous caster (such as a cleric or wizard) who wants to prepare a lower-level spell in a higher-level slot, there is no reason not to use Heighten Spell on that spell (it doesn't cost you any extra time or any other game "currency").
If you are a spontaneous caster, heightening a spell when using a higher-level spell slot still increases the casting time, just like any other use of metamagic, so you have to weigh the benefits of either
• casting it normally using the higher-level slot
vs.
• increasing the casting time to cast it as a heightened spell and treat the spell as the level of the spell slot you're using.
Example A 10th-level sorcerer could cast fireball using a 3rd-, 4th-, or 5th-level spell slot, it would only be a standard action casting time, would count as a 3rd-level spell, and have a DC of 13 + Charisma bonus. If she had Heighten Spell and wanted to heighten it using a 4th- or 5th-level spell slot, it would have a full-round action casting time, but would count as a 4th- or 5th-level spell and have a DC of 14 + Cha bonus (for a 4th-level spell) or 15 + Cha bonus (for a 5th-level slot).

For (2), you can't apply Heighten Spell to a spell at no cost: any increase to the effective spell level of the spell must be tracked and paid for by using a higher-level spell slot, above and beyond any other spell level increases from the other metamagic feats.
Example: A 15th-level wizard has Quicken Spell. If he prepares a quickened fireball, that requires a 7th-level spell slot (fireball 3rd level + quicken 4 levels). The spell's DC is still 13 + his Int bonus because it's still just a 3rd-level spell, even though it's in a 7th-level spell slot. If he also has Heighten Spell, the spell is not automatically heightened; it still counts as a 3rd-level spell and has the DC of a 3rd-level spell. If he wants to increase the quickened fireball's effective level with Heighten Spell, he needs to use an even higher level spell slot than the adjusted spell level from the Quicken Spell feat. Increasing the fireball's effective spell level by +1 (from 3rd to 4th) requires using a spell slot +1 level higher (in this case, an 8th-level spell slot instead of a 7th-level slot); increasing the fireball's effective spell level by +2 (from 3rd to 5th) requires using a spell slot +2 levels higher (in this case, a 9th-level spell slot instead of a 7th-level slot).

Another way to look at (2) it is to add Heighten Spell first, then other metamagic feats. Continuing the above example, you'd first heighten the fireball to a 4th-level spell, then quicken it, which requires an 8th-level spell slot (fireball 4th level + quicken 4 levels). Or first heighten the fireball to a 5th-level spell, then quicken it, which requires a 9th-level spell slot (fireball 5th level + quicken 4 levels).

(Heighten Spell is a weak metamagic feat and has limited utility when combined with other metamagic feats.)

"[Y]ou can't apply Heighten Spell to a spell at no cost..." (Italics in the original.) The way I read it is that Heighten fundamentally changes the level of the spell you're casting. Because Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter can't reduce the spell level below the spell's original level, they can't lower it below the heightened spell level. In other words, if you want a spell that functions as a first level spell for effects like rider effect duration and save DC, you're going to have to use a first level spell slot for it. I haven't seen a FAQ or ruling either way, but that's the way the consensus seems to me from what I've seen of messageboard discussions, and that's how I rule until I see convincing evidence otherwise.

[lemeres]

LazarX wrote:

Exguardi wrote:

Arcane Mark and/or Brand seem like superior "combat" cantrips to Acid Splash, if only due to the fact that they can be used to grant a Magus "free" Two-Weapon Fighting.

I don't recall ANYONE ever preparing Arcane Mark before the advent of the Magus class. Some folks would prepare Brand just to get their Sadistic cred up.

I can imagine that they have their uses (mostly because it can be invisible most of the time, and easily seen with detect magic). I can imagine some tricky things that could be done with that (for example- cheating at card games).

But yeah, this is highly specialized, and honestly not useful most of the time. Something for a wizard to bury in his spell book, and for the sorcerer to pass on, basically.

[BigP4nda]

If you are playing a game where your GM likes to use minion rules, Jolt is superpowerful.
And if you are fighting undead, Disrupt undead.

Outside of that, Detect Magic is the one 0-level spell I just can't go without, I gotta know what I'm buying man, don't want those crafty salesmen haggling me out of 18,000gp

[KenderKin]

The new one I created, it combines a weak holding force with create water. I call it the Orison of water-boarding.