Daredevil!


Television

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Liberty's Edge

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The Hallway is one of the most amazing pieces of cinematography and fight choreography I've seen in years. Intimate, understated, deliberate, and the final part of it when the fighting over...

Brilliant.

Just f-ing brilliant.


Just watched the first seven episodes at a friends house and have to say it was awesome. Totally blows away Arrow or Flash (though I might be a little bias as I have always loved Daredevil).

Things I loved...

:
-Stick
-Hinting at the Hand
-Kingpin
-Ben Ulrich

Things I am wondering about...or was hoping for..

:
-Wondering how Leland is going to become The Owl...the actor kind of seems a little old for that kind of thing.

- Was hoping for a mention of Elechtra...they did date in college in the Comic Books...

Can't wait till next Sat where I will finish watching the first season.


Gotten through the first 9 so far.

Really good show. Don't know if I would say it's BETTER than the Flash, or Arrow when it's on the ball, but it's as good as them, in a different way.

I've never been a big Daredevil fan (I know jack about him, though I do know enough about his periphery characters in the Marvel universe to recognize who was probably

Spoiler:
The Hand?
that showed up in one episode), but this show is making me like him a lot more.

Though there's a few moments where I have to go "Okay, what?" like when he's

Spoiler:
in the abandoned building with Vladimir and, without moving, or anything is somehow able to pinpoint nails, duct tape, and an emergency kit. What?
.

There's a lot I can suspend my disbelief for if there's even a vaguely plausible explanation, but that pushed it. I was under the impression that his powers were "super senses (sans sight)", meaning he has incredible hearing, smell, touch, and taste. So I can buy fight scenes (he hears their muscles contracting! He feels the wind as they move around him!) and his usual shenanigans but that didn't make any sense to me at all.


He also has a kind of radar sense in the comics...the show though does do a interesting take in explaining it as he is using all of his super sense to paint the picture. He probably could smell the items in the warehouse...and pinpoint them that way.

Also as I said I am bias to me Daredevil is just a much better character than Arrow or the Flash are...I am also like Marvel better than DC.


I was never a Green Arrow fan either, but Flash is one of my all time favorites. He's so upbeat. Daredevil has always seemed way too broody to me. In a lot of teh stuff I've been exposed to it's like he was trying to out angst Batman. This version is better, I think.

I'd be hard pressed to say which company I like better though. There's a bunch of characters and stories from both I love.

Marvel I love Spider-Man, Iron Man, Deadpool, and a lot of the X-Men (mostly Gambit and Nightcrawler. Wolverine to a lesser extent).

DC I love Batman (and most of his Rogue's Gallery and assorted villains. Especially Deathstroke), the Flash, and assorted others.

I kinda think Marvel has better heroes, but DC has more memorable villains, so it's a net wash for many stories.

Liberty's Edge

Regarding the Owl:

Spoiler:
Leland mentions telling his son Lee to stay out of the city. Presumably if the want the Owl it will be Leland Jr.

Liberty's Edge

I'm absolutely loving the grittiness of the show thus far. This is the superhero universe I want to see more of.

I'm still hoping for a Colson appearance but it'd be hard to make him fit the themes of the show.

Liberty's Edge

I wouldn't expect a Coulson appearance in this season of Daredevil. Maybe in AKA Jessica Jones or the Defenders. I wouldn't hold your breath though, Marvel wanted these to be separate from the rest of Earth-199999.

There has been some discussion that Claire's 'Mike' might be Michael Peterson, but I think that's just wishful thinking.


Are they separate? They've referenced the Chitauri attack so I assumed it was in the MCU.

Liberty's Edge

It is MCU (which is Earth-199999), but Marvel didn't want them directly linked because they're very different in scope and tone.

The also mention Banner breaking Harlem in Urich's clippings.

Liberty's Edge

The Chitarui attack is the 'incident' they mentioned in the first few episodes.

It's definitely very different in tone but I don't think that's a bad thing.

Dark Archive

Question:

I've only made it episode 6 so far and was wondering about the scene in the tenement apartment between Foggy and Karen where Foggy almost lets slip that Matt doesn't need him to him what Karen looks like just before he changes the subject.
So does this Foggy know about Matt's abilities?

Dark Archive

Freehold DM wrote:
Hama wrote:
Luke is in a 25 ton range.

wow.

Someone upped his power level. When did this happen?

Bendis wanted to use Luke Cage as an Avenger, and following on his not having a clue what the Scarlet Witch's powers were, he didn't have much of a clue (or, more accurately, didn't care) that Luke Cage could only lift a third of what Spider-Man could.

Heck, Bendis didn't even know that Tigra could lift 5 tons, and was almost twice as strong as Cage, when he had her held down by a normal dude.

Cage, IMO, was more impressive when he had an unbreakable defense, and was paired with Iron Fist, who had the unbeatable offense.

Anywho, I'm about halfway through the Daredevil series, and it's pretty cool. I love the fight scenes and how Daredevil doesn't get the cool 'villains fly away' punches that Captain America gets. It feels pretty visceral.

Liberty's Edge

Feral wrote:

The Chitarui attack is the 'incident' they mentioned in the first few episodes.

It's definitely very different in tone but I don't think that's a bad thing.

Separate may have been a bad word choice on my part. It is part of the MCU/Earth-199999 continuity and Dare . The Netflix shows though are supposed to be... um... stand alone form the movies for now.

At this point though, other then it taking place after the Battle of New York and before Age of Ultron they haven't said where the show is on the MCU timeline.

Marik Whiterose wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Considering that the comics Foggy knew Matt was Daredevil since almost the beginning, the MCU Foggy probably has a pretty good idea that Matt's blindness isn't as much of a handicap as it is for most folks.
Liberty's Edge

Oh, another link to the rest of the MCU: Crusher Creel (seen in Agents of SHIELD) was Jack Murdock's last opponent.

Dark Archive

Krensky wrote:
Oh, another link to the rest of the MCU: Crusher Creel (seen in Agents of SHIELD) was Jack Murdock's last opponent.

Interesting that they didn't show him, which leaves it open for him to appear later without worrying about recasting issues.

Liberty's Edge

Set wrote:
Krensky wrote:
Oh, another link to the rest of the MCU: Crusher Creel (seen in Agents of SHIELD) was Jack Murdock's last opponent.

Interesting that they didn't show him, which leaves it open for him to appear later without worrying about recasting issues.

They'd have had to cast him new for Daredevil anyway since it was ten or so years in past.

Dark Archive

I don't know what the plans are for the future Netflix series, but I think I've been seeing some setup for at least one of the shows to follow.

I wonder if there will be other tie-ins.


I think I see some potential set up for the Defenders series, but not so far the other Netflix series.

I am still confused on how series work with the Netflix deal. The creators have been talking about a Daredevil season 2, but would that have to come after Defenders? Or would we get it next year? Will we have multiple MCU series "running" at the same time?

Liberty's Edge

This one leads into AKA Jessica Jones which leads into Luke Cage which leads into Iron Fists which leads into The Defenders.

Nobu, the Hand, and Ms Gao are expected to be involved with at the least Iron Fist. I would expect to see some easter eggs and tie ins to the other shows as well.

I'm mildly curious if we'll see references to Peter Parker or T'Challa in the later shows. I expect Coleen Wing to be in Iron Fist, and maybe Mercedes Knight. If so, either of them could show up or be referenced before the Iron Fist show. Shang Chi and Marc Spector as other NYC based street heroes are other possible references, although I doubt the later will appear on screen Shang Chi might. Angela Del Toro is another character who could show up during Iron Fist.

There's also a lot of room in AKA Jessica Jones for random people to show up looking for the Alias Detective Agency, including possible cameos from Murdock and Nelson. I would not be surprised to see Paul Denning show up there.

There's some thought that the sniper in episode six might be Bullseye even though the show runners said he's not in this season. There's also expectation that Elektra Natchios will be around if there's a season two, and if there is a season two cameos by Natasha Romanova or Clint Barton would not be out of order.

MMCJawa wrote:
I am still confused on how series work with the Netflix deal. The creators have been talking about a Daredevil season 2, but would that have to come after Defenders? Or would we get it next year? Will we have multiple MCU series "running" at the same time?

Technically we already do since regardless of when Daredevil takes place Agents of SHIELD is happening. I would expect any season 2's to be set after the Defenders and almost certainly after Age of Ultron and possibly after Captain America: Civil War.


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Krensky wrote:
I'm mildly curious if we'll see references to Peter Parker or T'Challa in the later shows.

I kind of thought it would have been awesome if the Prince that Vanessa(Fisk's girlfriend) said she hooked up would have been Prince T'Challa...and who know it might have been.

Liberty's Edge

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John Kretzer wrote:
Krensky wrote:
I'm mildly curious if we'll see references to Peter Parker or T'Challa in the later shows.
I kind of thought it would have been awesome if the Prince that Vanessa(Fisk's girlfriend) said she hooked up would have been Prince T'Challa...and who know it might have been.

Possible, but T'Challa is smoother then that. I'm pretty sure that exchange was just to poke fun at Fisk's look in the comics. You know, white jacket, purple pants, ascot.


Krensky wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
Krensky wrote:
I'm mildly curious if we'll see references to Peter Parker or T'Challa in the later shows.
I kind of thought it would have been awesome if the Prince that Vanessa(Fisk's girlfriend) said she hooked up would have been Prince T'Challa...and who know it might have been.
Possible, but T'Challa is smoother then that. I'm pretty sure that exchange was just to poke fun at Fisk's look in the comics. You know, white jacket, purple pants, ascot.

True...I was just thinking what if?

Also there is a way to bring in SHIELD...maybe not Coulson and team...but the Kingpin at one time was a member of Hydra. It actually would be kind of funny if Daredevil brings him in and SHIELD comes along and makes a deal with him for his information on Hydra.


In one of the episodes there was a reference to SHIELD on the news (while Fisk was in his car watching it), but I missed the specifics of it since it flashed by so fast.

Sovereign Court

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I liked the hallway fight a lot. Nice take.

Liberty's Edge

The choreography in the show is great. Leaps and bounds ahead of the stuff in AoS.

Sovereign Court

Or Arrow for that matter.

Liberty's Edge

Ugh. I don't even want to think about Arrow.

Liberty's Edge

Rynjin wrote:
In one of the episodes there was a reference to SHIELD on the news (while Fisk was in his car watching it), but I missed the specifics of it since it flashed by so fast.

I'll have to go back and look, that might tie when it takes place down more concretely than 'between the Avengers movies'.

Liberty's Edge

John Kretzer wrote:
Krensky wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:
Krensky wrote:
I'm mildly curious if we'll see references to Peter Parker or T'Challa in the later shows.
I kind of thought it would have been awesome if the Prince that Vanessa(Fisk's girlfriend) said she hooked up would have been Prince T'Challa...and who know it might have been.
Possible, but T'Challa is smoother then that. I'm pretty sure that exchange was just to poke fun at Fisk's look in the comics. You know, white jacket, purple pants, ascot.

True...I was just thinking what if?

Also there is a way to bring in SHIELD...maybe not Coulson and team...but the Kingpin at one time was a member of Hydra. It actually would be kind of funny if Daredevil brings him in and SHIELD comes along and makes a deal with him for his information on Hydra.

I... I don't know.

The D'Onofrio version of Kingpin is more of a... a failed anti-hero here then just a villain. I don't think he'd work with Hydra, but then again he considers the Hand a necessary evil, so maybe.

I think that's one of the best elements of the show really, Wilson Fisk on the show is a more complex character than the comic book one. Especially since they'd be wasting D'Onofrio otherwise.

Sovereign Court

Hama wrote:

I liked the hallway fight a lot. Nice take.

glad you are now able to watch the show!

Sovereign Court

There are some streaming sites which offer it for free.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Never been a Daredevil fan but I'm currently four episodes in and quite impressed. Much better than Arrow or Agents of Shield, in my opinion...just entirely better than I had ever expected.

Sovereign Court

Agreed

Liberty's Edge

Daredevil and AoS are two very different shows with two very different artistic agendas and goals.

AoS is about superspies and now low level supers working in a world costumed heroes and villains on one hand, and Phil Coulson on the other. It's sorta the other Avengers (the John Steed and Emma Peel one). In the grand MCU scheme one of its jobs is to keep the fan base ticking over between movies. Another is to give Marvel Studios a place to drop hints and easter eggs and previews. For example:

Spoiler:
Skye serving to help introduce and expand the Inhumans and Kree which will be important for a number of upcoming projects including the Inhumans movies, probably the explanation for the Maximoff's powers, the Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel film. They might use it as a source of Jessica Jones powers too.

DD is, bluntly and by the show runner's own admission, The Wire with masks and doesn't need to do anything other then introduce the Earth-199999 version of the characters and Hell's Kitchen.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I... may have... watched it all over the weekend.

It is single handedly the best superhero TV show ever. I don't normally go for Dark 'n' Gritty, but Daredevil handles it the best of any show I've ever seen.

The hallway fight will always stick in my head as one of the most brutal fights I've ever seen.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Six episodes in, and loving it so far. Daredevil's always been one of my favourite comics, particularly the later Frank Miller ones, Kevin Smith's Guardian Devil arc, and all of the Bendis/Maleev run.

So far, they've got the tone exactly right. The corridor fight at the end of episode 2 was stunning. I've been really surprised by how brutal it all is, far more violent and bloody than anything else Marvel have done, which is perfect for this.

Hopefully the second half of the season can maintain the momentum and build to something big. I'm planning to power through it over the next few nights. Who needs sleep, anyway?

Sovereign Court

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Episode 8

The origin of Fisk

This cannot be unseen and I will carry these powerful images with me for the rest of my life.

note: do not let anyone under your care that is under 18 watch this. I strongly caution against it. But for fellow adults on this thread: this is film mastery and will forever elevate the genre's bar to the stratosphere. Marvel is now truly sitting on gold.


Set wrote:
Bendis wanted to use Luke Cage as an Avenger, and following on his not having a clue what the Scarlet Witch's powers were, he didn't have much of a clue (or, more accurately, didn't care) that Luke Cage could only lift a third of what Spider-Man could.

I am not a Bendis fan, and am generally among the first to jump on his sloppy research, but in his defense (in this case), Luke Cage had actually gotten a power up long before Bendis, in his own 90s series (titled "Cage"). He got a second dosage of the serum that gave him his powers in the first place.

It was a pretty obscure comic, however, and came at a time when there was a lot of crap on the market, so I'm not surprised it isn't widely recognized.

(And Bendis probably hadn't read it either.)

Liberty's Edge

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I finished it this afternoon. My biggest regret is how much this might have ruined superhero fiction for me.


So far so ok. I don't like it as much as Arrow or Flash, or even AoS s. 2, but it's ok. I don't really feel much of anything towards DD himself, but he's got a pretty good supporting cast and the story at episode 6 (which is as far as I've gotten) is pretty good.
The good thing is there isn't the teen soap opera that plagues Flash and especially Arrow, but DD has never really made an impact on me, and I like both Ollie and the Flash. Sure, 'Arrow' Ollie is not nearly as cool as he should be (forkbeard and snarky socialist FTW!), but I still enjoy the series.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Episode 8

The origin of Fisk

This cannot be unseen and I will carry these powerful images with me for the rest of my life.

note: do not let anyone under your care that is under 18 watch this. I strongly caution against it. But for fellow adults on this thread: this is film mastery and will forever elevate the genre's bar to the stratosphere. Marvel is now truly sitting on gold.

Bah. This is PG13.


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I've never been able to get past about episode 5 of Agents of Shield. Daredevil, on the other hand grabbed me from the first episode. Different scope/goals aside, there is much to be said for good storytelling.

BTW, what's wrong with "The Wire with masks?" The Wire is on may critics top ten lists for the best T.V. show of all time. If Daredevil even gets close it will be a first for a comic-book show.


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My only real complaint about the series is that they mostly ignore the fact that he is a lawyer. I'm not a big comic reader, so I only have a passing familiarity with the a few characters from elsewhere. But I was hoping for something more paced like Burn Notice, with a solid client of the week interacting with the overarching plot. Instead, it felt like they rushed the primary plot as the only thing going on, so it felt like too much happened too quickly.

That being said, the cinematography was amazing. Others have mentioned the hallway scene, but I think one of my favorites was the episode open where they show Fisk's morning routine.

Liberty's Edge

bugleyman wrote:

I've never been able to get past about episode 5 of Agents of Shield. Daredevil, on the other hand grabbed me from the first episode. Different scope/goals aside, there is much to be said for good storytelling.

BTW, what's wrong with "The Wire with masks?" The Wire is on may critics top ten lists for the best T.V. show of all time. If Daredevil even gets close it will be a first for a comic-book show.

What makes you think I meant anything was bad about it?

I meant that, personal preference aside, its hard to say that DD is objectively better than AoS because they are so different.

Is Three Days of the Condor a better movie than Our Man Flint? Its really hard to say because they're so different in every way.

Liberty's Edge

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Caineach wrote:

That being said, the cinematography was amazing. Others have mentioned the hallway scene, but I think one of my favorites was the episode open where they show Fisk's morning routine.

True, bit the real value of that and when its repeated later in the episode is as a buildup for the pay off for his changed morning routine at the end of the episode.

Sovereign Court

Caineach wrote:
Others have mentioned the hallway scene, but I think one of my favorites was the episode open where they show Fisk's morning routine.

That is my favorite scene / episode as well. Just wow. And the culmination of the scene where you see how it all started... unbelievable...

With that said, the Daredevil centered fight scenes are glorious and by no means "inferior". Just that the focus is shifted from storytelling to action.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Krensky wrote:
Caineach wrote:

That being said, the cinematography was amazing. Others have mentioned the hallway scene, but I think one of my favorites was the episode open where they show Fisk's morning routine.

True, bit the real value of that and when its repeated later in the episode is as a buildup for the pay off for his changed morning routine at the end of the episode.

The cherry on top is that they spent a good long while giving us a meticulous look at Fisk dressing, not once, but twice. And then we get a meticulous look at Fisk the Elder being undressed in almost the same fashion. Very well done.

I can't say it's my favorite MCU property, but it's a very good show, and completely different than anything in the MCU to date. I...may have watched the whole thing from start to finish on Sunday.

And I really want the Atlas Investments office across the hall from Nelson & Murdock to be vacant and picked up by Jessica Jones.

Sovereign Court

I'm not done yet (Episode 10... :) )

but I fully expect to watch them all again, after I convince others to seeeeeeeeee thisssssssssssssssssss.... SO SAYS SERPENTOR!!!! O_O

Dark Archive

They've set the bar super-high with this first of four/five Netflix series. I keep going into these Marvel super-hero movies / shows with low expectations, and being blown away by how good they are. That's a nice problem to have. :)

I don't expect nearly as much awesome fight choreography from Jessica Jones or Luke Cage (since both seem more likely to get the sort of 'super-punch' action we saw in the first 15 minutes of Captain America or the appearances by Sif in Agents of SHIELD, where a single punch sends normal folk flying), but Iron Fist is going to be following in some tough footprints to not just maintain, but build on this sort of hard fighting action.

Luke and Jessica are differing levels of tough/invulnerable, so I'd expect less of them being stitched up / bandaged / bleeding out in dumpsters quite as much as Matt. :)

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