Daredevil!


Television

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Liberty's Edge

After watching the show, I think Wesly is the hand of the kingpin ;)

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
CapeCodRPGer wrote:
After watching the show, I think Wesly is the hand of the kingpin ;)

keep watching ;)

Shadow Lodge

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
So why not just lock her up?
Presumably because, for whatever reason, they couldn't charge her with a crime.

SHIELD hasn't ever let something insignificant like that get in their way.


Yeah, seriously.

They're a black ops pseudo-military organization who uses whatever means necessary to get their way.

To be honest I'm kind of surprised they didn't chop her fingers off and have done with it.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

lol

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

New SHIELD is basically an unsanctioned organization with no semblance of legitimate authority. Yeah, it's slightly offset by the fact that Coulson doesn't seem that interested in abusing that power....but he DID show up to Afterlife in a bunch of heavily armed aircraft and told the Inhumans living there they they were now under SHIELD's authority. Again, with no actual legitimacy behind the organization.

Liberty's Edge

Kthulhu wrote:
SHIELD hasn't ever let something insignificant like that get in their way.

I'm not at all sure that's true. We've literally never seen anyone they locked up who hadn't committed a crime.

They certainly do some shady stuff, but I'm not at all sure locking up people indefinitely without trial is one of those things.

Rynjin wrote:

Yeah, seriously.

They're a black ops pseudo-military organization who uses whatever means necessary to get their way.

Again, I'm not at all positive this is wholly accurate. They certainly break laws and kill people, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have rules of their own they won't break.

Rynjin wrote:
To be honest I'm kind of surprised they didn't chop her fingers off and have done with it.

Well, as was noted by Coulson, she had a really sympathetic story. Maybe she got a soft-hearted agent making the decisions on her case.

Kthulhu wrote:
New SHIELD is basically an unsanctioned organization with no semblance of legitimate authority. Yeah, it's slightly offset by the fact that Coulson doesn't seem that interested in abusing that power....but he DID show up to Afterlife in a bunch of heavily armed aircraft and told the Inhumans living there they they were now under SHIELD's authority. Again, with no actual legitimacy behind the organization.

That's not exactly what happened. Gordon casually infiltrated a SHIELD facility before SHIELD ever did anything to the Inhumans, so they were acting in their own defense to some degree. And Cal, while working for/with them had killed enough SHIELD agents to be viewe as something of a bogeyman...making it even more understandable. Also remember, the Inhumans are pretty much completely extra-legal as well.

It really has more in common with two governments or criminal organizations having a disagreement and attempting peace talks than an 'extra-legal authority' trying to impose it's will on a random group of civilians.

Shadow Lodge

So, what do you think Coulson's game plan was if Jaiying had simply told him "No, we will not allow you to put our people on an Index. Furthermore, we want you to leave here." ?

Pretending for a moment that neither she nor Gonzalez were actively trying to start conflict.

Liberty's Edge

Based on past actions, if she just said no and asked him to leave, he probably would have. Started a monitoring and reconnaissance program, sure, but I don't see Phil picking a fight like we were expecting Gonzales to do.

Liberty's Edge

He'd probably have asked for some other concessions.

Specifically, I suspect he'd have aimed for Skye as a liaison who the Inhumans could bring internal or external problems they became aware of to (and provide with details on the Inhuman making the trouble, if it was indeed an Inhuman doing so), making SHIELD aware of them and providing background material. That plus promising to stop invading SHIELD's facilities or attacking its people, and turning over those who've murdered large number of SHIELD agents already (ie: Cal, Raina) is a hell of a good start on a peace proposal. In exchange he'd almost certainly offer SHIELD's help and protection if other parties ever attacked the Inhumans simply for existing. Plus jobs if they want them.

Really, while putting them on the Index was certainly a goal of SHIELD's in the negotiation process, but it was hardly their only goal or a completely non-negotiable point.

Now, Gonzales might easily not have been willing to concede as much as Coulson, but I suspect even he could've been convinced to accept something less than full capitulation if approached properly.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.

This is still the Daredevil thread, isn't it?


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Kthulhu wrote:
New SHIELD is basically an unsanctioned organization with no semblance of legitimate authority. Yeah, it's slightly offset by the fact that Coulson doesn't seem that interested in abusing that power....but he DID show up to Afterlife in a bunch of heavily armed aircraft and told the Inhumans living there they they were now under SHIELD's authority. Again, with no actual legitimacy behind the organization.

it's a whedon show. Morals flicker into being like that annoying check engine light in your car - only at the most inopportune and often illogical times.

Liberty's Edge

Marik Whiterose wrote:
This is still the Daredevil thread, isn't it?

It's a thread about a MCU property. There will be overlap.

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.

yeap, seems you cant talk about one Marvel without talking about all of them anymore. Unfortunately, that includes the sh!@@y shield series.

Shadow Lodge

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Freehold DM wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
New SHIELD is basically an unsanctioned organization with no semblance of legitimate authority. Yeah, it's slightly offset by the fact that Coulson doesn't seem that interested in abusing that power....but he DID show up to Afterlife in a bunch of heavily armed aircraft and told the Inhumans living there they they were now under SHIELD's authority. Again, with no actual legitimacy behind the organization.
it's a whedon show. Morals flicker into being like that annoying check engine light in your car - only at the most inopportune and often illogical times.

So I assume your hatred extends to the entire family, given that JOSS Whedon hasn't really had anything to do with the show since the pilot, and recent comments make it sound like he wishes that the show didn't exist.

Which has gotta make dinner parties awkward for the Whedon clan.

Shadow Lodge

I expect this thread won't see a lot of DAREDEVIL specificly targeted post until we get quite a bit closer to season 2.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Pan wrote:
yeap, seems you cant talk about one Marvel without talking about all of them anymore. Unfortunately, that includes the sh!@@y shield series.

Yes... that s$++ty shield series... how I so gently hate them!


Kthulhu wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
New SHIELD is basically an unsanctioned organization with no semblance of legitimate authority. Yeah, it's slightly offset by the fact that Coulson doesn't seem that interested in abusing that power....but he DID show up to Afterlife in a bunch of heavily armed aircraft and told the Inhumans living there they they were now under SHIELD's authority. Again, with no actual legitimacy behind the organization.
it's a whedon show. Morals flicker into being like that annoying check engine light in your car - only at the most inopportune and often illogical times.

So I assume your hatred extends to the entire family, given that JOSS Whedon hasn't really had anything to do with the show since the pilot, and recent comments make it sound like he wishes that the show didn't exist.

Which has gotta make dinner parties awkward for the Whedon clan.

it's how joss writes, his kin learn from the master. And if you think joss has absolutely nothing at all to do with the show ever, then I have a bridge to sell you.


uh he doesn't. In fact he is pretty much done doing MCU stuff.

Shadow Lodge

Not to mention the comments of a few weeks ago where he made it clear he wished the show didn't exist.

Paizo Employee Sales Associate

Kthulhu wrote:
Not to mention the comments of a few weeks ago where he made it clear he wished the show didn't exist.

Link?

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Maybe this?

The Exchange

Kthulhu wrote:
Not to mention the comments of a few weeks ago where he made it clear he wished the show didn't exist.

I do not actually know for fact, but I feel confident to say that Joss is very likely happy for his brother and the work he is doing. I'm going to have to see a direct quote of him before I take your words as anything other than flimsy conjunction based on an out-of-context quote.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Lord Snow wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Not to mention the comments of a few weeks ago where he made it clear he wished the show didn't exist.
I do not actually know for fact, but I feel confident to say that Joss is very likely happy for his brother and the work he is doing. I'm going to have to see a direct quote of him before I take your words as anything other than flimsy conjunction based on an out-of-context quote.

Direct quote or not, I agree with the sentiment. The show did a good job when Winter Soldier came out, but that one line they added about ULTRON when Avengers 2 came out just reeked of smelly compost...

Silver Crusade

If memory serves, what Whedon said was that in his mind, as far as Age of Ultron is concerned, Coulson isn't alive. That's not the same thing as saying he wished the show didn't exist. Which would be absurd considering that Joss directed the very first episode of AoS. And yet the show is referenced in AoU (when Fury says that Helicarrier 64 was gotten out of mothballs by a couple of old friends... Coulson and Agent Sam Koenig executing Theta Protocol for those that watch the show).

Back to Daredevil, given how it ends, I wouldn't be surprised if his "debut" sparks SHIELD's interest (whether it is referenced in either show is a whole other deal, though it would be nice it such cross-pollenization took place). Though I think once Jessica Jones airs we may actually see more of that (or not... again, tightly weaving the properties together would be cool).

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Punisher is used in Daredevil's second season. I'm hoping that the version we saw in War Zone is not used, as I personally preferred the Thomas Jane version (and as much as I liked Dolph's version back in the day, I hope they stay as far from that one as they can). I've never watched the Walking Dead (blasphemy, I know), but from all accounts, the guy they have is a rock solid choice and I'm hoping that proves to be the case.

Shadow Lodge

Blayde MacRonan wrote:
Back to Daredevil, given how it ends, I wouldn't be surprised if his "debut" sparks SHIELD's interest (whether it is referenced in either show is a whole other deal, though it would be nice it such cross-pollenization took place). Though I think once Jessica Jones airs we may actually see more of that (or not... again, tightly weaving the properties together would be cool).

Assuming they keep it somewhat close to the Alias comics, it's possible that SHIELD already knows about Jessica and already has her on "the Index", given that that comic starts off with her having already been retired from the superhero game for several years.

As of right now, Daredevil is the only superhero (that we know about) in the MCU with a secret identity.

Sovereign Court

Blayde MacRonan wrote:


I'm looking forward to seeing how the Punisher is used in Daredevil's second season. I'm hoping that the version we saw in War Zone is not used, as I personally preferred the Thomas Jane version (and as much as I liked Dolph's version back in the day, I hope they stay as far from that one as they can). I've never watched the Walking Dead (blasphemy, I know), but from all accounts, the guy they have is a rock solid choice and I'm hoping that proves to be the case.

very much disliked the Thomas Jane punisher. I think they made the mistake of trying to make the punisher a tortured hero that only kills the bad bad guys. Honestly, that aligns better with the MCU, but I prefer the guy who has gone too far traditional version of the punisher. I think the key is to relegating the punisher to reoccurring character for contrast against the good ol boys club. YMMV


Well to be fair even the Punisher has tended to not kill some people guilty of criminal activity. I mean I am not sure what precisely his current criteria are, but its not like he is killing people for speeding.

Also given Daredevil's villian the Kingpin you can argue he just needs to be killed. Then again Kingpin end up permenantly dispose of more of Daredevil's rogues gallery than Daredevil did.

The Exchange

Pan wrote:
Blayde MacRonan wrote:


I'm looking forward to seeing how the Punisher is used in Daredevil's second season. I'm hoping that the version we saw in War Zone is not used, as I personally preferred the Thomas Jane version (and as much as I liked Dolph's version back in the day, I hope they stay as far from that one as they can). I've never watched the Walking Dead (blasphemy, I know), but from all accounts, the guy they have is a rock solid choice and I'm hoping that proves to be the case.

very much disliked the Thomas Jane punisher. I think they made the mistake of trying to make the punisher a tortured hero that only kills the bad bad guys. Honestly, that aligns better with the MCU, but I prefer the guy who has gone too far traditional version of the punisher. I think the key is to relegating the punisher to reoccurring character for contrast against the good ol boys club. YMMV

At least in the context of the netflix show, having the punisher just kill bad guys is enough of a contrast to Daredevil.

Dark Archive

It begins.

Dark Archive

[random blasphemy] I liked the Netflix Daredevil show and all, but I really miss Jon Favreau as Foggy, from the movie. I think I liked Michael Clark Duncan's Kingpin better, too... [/random blasphemy]


2 people marked this as a favorite.

randomly splashes Set with holy water

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
randomly splashes Set with holy water

cracks a beer... watches Set doing the funky bacon dance

Sovereign Court

BLASPHEMER

The Exchange

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Set wrote:

[random blasphemy] I liked the Netflix Daredevil show and all, but I really miss Jon Favreau as Foggy, from the movie. I think I liked Michael Clark Duncan's Kingpin better, too... [/random blasphemy]

I really like Netflix Foggy. Favourite character on the show, I'd say.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and pretty much... disagree with Set here... (i.e. this Daredevil is lightyears better than that Ben Affleck crap)

Liberty's Edge

I don't know, I thought Michael Clark Duncan and Colin Ferrell were pretty good in that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I felt the Ben Affleck movie was very enjoyable as someone who was not familiar with the characters going in.

Dark Archive

Comiccon Trailer for current series and at the 1:30 mark has a few foreshadowing snippets for Season Two.

Including what has to be [redacted] and what is obviously [redacted] but we knew we would [redacted] them.

Sovereign Court

Caineach wrote:
I felt the Ben Affleck movie was very enjoyable as someone who was not familiar with the characters going in.

Emphasis on the important part.


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Looks like we got some Punisher coming

Liberty's Edge

That got revealed back in June.

Scarab Sages

Caineach wrote:
Looks like we got some Punisher coming

And Elektra, but there was no way she wasn't showing up.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Question: why are Marvel shows so far ahead of DC shows? I'm interested in what people think.

I'm thinking the answer may or may not have to do with a few differences between:
- DC 'fictional' setting vs. Marvel 'real cities' setting;
- DC having to use nerf bats due to Network TV restrictions;
- etc.

Liberty's Edge

I want a proper season 2 trailer. We got some quick stuff at the comic con reel buts that's it.


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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Question: why are Marvel shows so far ahead of DC shows? I'm interested in what people think.

I'm thinking the answer may or may not have to do with a few differences between:
- DC 'fictional' setting vs. Marvel 'real cities' setting;
- DC having to use nerf bats due to Network TV restrictions;
- etc.

- There is very little in the way of oversight or central command of the DC Universe in the same way as the Marvel.

-Nearly all their shows (with Gotham the exception) still use the "badguy of the week" format. In contrast Marvel has pretty much completely given up that format post first season of AoS, and does serial storytelling with "half season" season arcs.

-DC has more existing network relationships, which is why there is a push towards networks more so than other forms of media. Disney really just has ABC/ABC Family AFAIK. Netflix is probably more able to/has a greater desire to take risks than say CBS.

-Budget. I think the CW shows largely don't have as high a budget per episode as the Netflix shows, and even AoS I think has a pretty decent budget.

I don't think the network "nerf bats" really influence things. Gotham violence wise is probably on par with the netflix shows. It's just that Marvel on Netflix usually treats violence seriously and actually shows the consequences. Versus Gotham, which is usually cartoonish and juvenile in its treatment. The CWverse is intentionally trying to keep a lighter tone, especially post Flash, and so avoiding the Gritty (Which IMHO is a good thing...A lot of DC properties shouldn't be gritty, including Supergirl and Flash).

While I am more than happy to bash DC, I don't think there is anything intrinsic about there subject matter that hampers them, just the management. The DCverse would be amazing on screen if they just handed over the reigns of the property to folks with vision, like the CW showrunners, rather than have random suites decide the direction, tone, and plot of media they barely understand, based on the latest flavor of the week.

Silver Crusade

Disney-ABC Television also has a 50% stake in A&E due to its joint merger with Hearst Corporation, something they should really take advantage of and start showing Marvel content on.

Interestingly, Disney-ABC Television also has 32% stake in Hulu.

Disney-ABC Television holdings.

Scarab Sages

Maybe History will have an Ancient Aliens show on Asgardian and Kree interference in ancient events.


Soooooo Finished off Jessica Jones.

Not OVERLY impressed. I think that it was a bit too dark for my taste and the MCU as a whole. I'd have preferred if they kept everything in the pg-13 realm. Especially if the overall goal is for 'everything being connected'

Can you imagine watching Star Wars with two PGs, and Empire strikes back a hard R?? Very Disruptive...

I will say Tennant was the best part of the show. I was pretty nervous with their 'dark and gritty' attitude and including the purple man... what he does??? Could have crossed a LOT of lines for me in this show. However they did a decent job keeping his scenes fun and anything too dark behind the scenes.

Regardless... I have NO idea how this Defenders is going to work as a team. I finished JJ, then went back to watch Daredevil again... they seem VERY incompatible.

Jessica Jones:

Daredevil just spent a whole season learning that it's absolutely wrong to kill. Even the scum kidnapping kids for human trafficking... even the kingpin... There are some lines you do not cross.

Whereas Jessica Jones just spent the second half of the season trying to figure out a way to get close enough to murder Kilgrave dead... and all her support staff was helping.

I was a fan of the guy playing luke cage. his fights were pretty fun to watch. All those annoying little people who can't hurt him... but were an annoyance. just toss them to the side apathetically.


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PG-13 Jessica Jones wouldn't be Jessica Jones. Her actual comic was just shy of X rated from what I've seen. It's part and parcel with the property. It'd be like making an X-Men show and entirely cutting out the fact that Xavier's school exists and is prominent. It just don't work.

Besides which, the Netflix shows are, at best, only tangentially related to the MCU. Different writers, directors, producers, and distributors, and none of the MCU events actually seem to affect the shows except as neat easter eggs. Whole separate ball game. It's not disruptive to sports that a football game and a baseball game don't play the same. Football being a bit of a rougher sport doesn't disrupt what baseball is.

As for how her and Daredevil will mesh...I imagine they WON'T, at first. Every new team has kinks to work out.

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