Rules Question: Impact Critical Shot and Disposable Weapon

[Seiryu]

I'm using an Oracle/Fighter combination that throws rocks at things, and I'm thinking of giving him these two feats. Can anyone tell me how they would work together?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/impact-critical-shot-combat-crit ical

Impact Critical Shot (Combat, Critical)

Prerequisite: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot, base attack bonus +9.

Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit with a ranged attack, in addition to the normal damage your attack deals, if your confirmation roll exceeds your opponent’s CMD, you can push your opponent back as if from the bull rush combat maneuver or knock that target prone as if from a trip combat maneuver. If you choose to bull rush, you cannot move with the target. Your maneuver does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Normal: You must perform a bull rush combat maneuver to bull rush an opponent, and you must perform a trip combat maneuver to trip an opponent.

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http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/disposable-weapon

Disposable Weapon

Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1, proficient with weapon.

Benefit: Whenever you use a melee or thrown weapon with the fragile weapon special quality to score a critical threat against an opponent, you can give your weapon the broken condition to automatically confirm the critical hit.

With Disposable Weapon, you don't make a confirmation roll, you just automatically crit, so I'm wondering how this would play out with Impact Critical Shot.

Note: They're both from the same source book, Ultimate Combat.

[Claxon]

Rocks don't have the fragile weapon quality so they don't qualify for disposable weapon.

However, assuming their is a ranged weapon with the fragile quality I would rule that you would still need to roll for the combat maneuver effect, but that the damage critical portion would be automatically confirmed.

[Seiryu]

Actually, rocks do have the fragile weapon property.

Source: PRG:UC

Cost 1/4 normal.; Weight 3/4 normal.

DESCRIPTION

Stone Age weapons almost always utilize stone in some way. From rocks lashed to wooden hafts to create early maces and axes, to flint knives and stone arrowheads, these primitive weapons are still deadly.

Weapons Light and one-handed bludgeoning weapons, spears, and arrowheads can all be made of stone. Weapons made of stone have half the hardness of their base weapons, and have the fragile quality.

Armor Armor cannot usually be constructed from stone, but advanced, often alchemically enhanced stone armor made by dwarves or other stone-working cultures does exist (see stone coat).

Cost/Weight (Longer Wording) "Stone weapons cost a quarter of what base items of their type do, and weigh 75% of what base items of their type do."

But, I do appreciate the input for the rest of it. I plan on running this by with my GM and see what he says as well.

[Claxon]

Rocks are not weapons made from stone. They are simply stones.

Go try to find a rock on any weapon table, you wont. They are improvised weapons.

A weapon that is a stone, not made of stone. Stone weapons are fragile not because the stone will easily break, but because if all you have is stoneage weapons, your binding techniques will be wedging a rock into something, or using vegetation to tie a rock onto something. Not reliable or strong methods.

The rules you quoted are for making normal weapons out of stone instead of metal.

[James Risner]

Claxon wrote:

The rules you quoted are for making normal weapons out of stone instead of metal.

+1

OP would need a weapon (like spear) to make of stone.

As for using a fragile weapon to confirm the critical that is fine. You still need to roll the threat.

[Seiryu]

A rock is a rock. And have you ever had a rock thrown at you? They hurt, and kill people, and therefore are weapons. Anyone can roll a craft check to craft a weapon. Pick up a rock, say "I attempt to craft a 0gp rock out of this stone on the ground that's already in the shape of a rock", since it has no value, it takes no time, successful craft check turns it into a crafted weapon, or you can just use common sense and recognize that's already a rock. Either way, there is no official ruling on this yet and my GM has approved rocks as a weapon due to the following.

Dwarf Oracle Favored Class Bonus - Reduce the non-proficient penalty for one weapon by 1. When the non-proficient penalty for a weapon becomes 0 because of this ability, the oracle is treated as having the appropriate Martial or Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat with that weapon.

Magic Stone Spell

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/magicStone.html

"You transmute as many as three pebbles, which can be no larger than sling bullets, so that they strike with great force when thrown or slung. If hurled, they have a range increment of 20 feet. If slung, treat them as sling bullets (range increment 50 feet). The spell gives them a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. The user of the stones makes a normal ranged attack. Each stone that hits deals 1d6+1 points of damage (including the spell's enhancement bonus), or 2d6+2 points against undead."

At this point, they're also considered thrown weapons, which are also made of stone.

Oracle Stone Mystery Revelation

Rock Throwing (Ex): You are an accomplished rock thrower and have a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown rocks. You can hurl rocks up to two categories smaller than your own size. The range increment for a rock is 20 feet, and you can hurl it up to 5 range increments. Damage for a hurled rock is 2d4 for a Medium creature or 2d3 for a Small creature, plus 1-1/2 your Strength bonus.

And from the Universal Monster Rules.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Rock-Throwing-Ex-

"A “rock” is any large, bulky, and relatively regularly shaped object made of any material with a hardness of at least 5."

Anyway, I spoke to my GM and he ruled as well that I'll just need to make the confirmation roll to determine whether it beats the CMD even with it. I suggested that he just treat the confirmation as a natural 20, but he wasn't going for it :P.

[alexd1976]

Take a look at "Splintering Weapon" as well...

[Seiryu]

Yep, I've seen that also. If you use the two together on a crit, you can destroy the rock and do both effects. One will give the rock a broken condition, the second one will take it from broken to destroyed.

[alexd1976]

Seiryu wrote:

Yep, I've seen that also. If you use the two together on a crit, you can destroy the rock and do both effects. One will give the rock a broken condition, the second one will take it from broken to destroyed.

My GM allows for stone daggers (flint knives, for example, as listed in the entry for Stone)-They start as fragile.