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Starting at Level 12 - Late blooming class ideas / crit. current plan

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So I have been playing my first ever game of pathfinder for several months, and now we are coming to the end of book 4 of Rise of the Rune Lords. My character will be retiring/dying? and I will be re-rolling a new one.

It's not often that I will get to start a character at this level so I am looking for build ideas that you might not normally go for as you are under par for many levels.

1. I would like to not suddenly re-appear with a character that outshines some one else's specialty.

2. It would be helpful to at least partially cover the gap I leave. (this probably means melee, perception, secondary bow use though we fly a lot now)

3. We are not optimized to the max but still reasonably with RP adjustments.

The existing party:
Fighter - Nodachi Crit. based
Mystic Theurge - Likes fireball / some healing
Winter Witch - Likes maximized lightning bolts and flying
Rogue - Pilferer (new member, little known)
Ranger - switch hitter (my character who is retiring)

I have had a couple of ideas:

The main one I am considering is a Hyde style alchemist.
Alchemist 10 / M. Chymist 2 --->@16 + Alchemist 2 / M. Chymist 2
Key parts: Beastmorph, Mummification, Feral Mut. , healing touch.
Comments:
My chosen M. Chymist levels is because it maximizes BAB at 16, I won't reach 6th level extracts any way so can handle the 2 level hit, I can take greater and grand mutagen at 12 /16 respectively.
I am not interested in vivisectionist as I like the bombs as a secondary option. Adaptive comp. long bow won't hit as much as my ranger but will hit harder. This also brings more to the group as I can buff and make cheaper potions for some too. My big concern is will his attack rolls and natural attacks keep up at these levels?

I have back story thoughts for him and plan on the normal form to use a dice role to decide the mood he is in whether antagonist or happy go lucky etc. and the beast form to be well spoken.

The other was a barbarian turned prophet of some upcoming threat.
Would have been Barbarian 11 / Oracle 1.
I built him up the full invulnerable route happy to compromise on damage but he still seems to be very capable and I think he will outshine the fighter.

Any way let me know your thoughts. I have all sorts floating around my head such as sacred fist, combat investigator historian.

Gunslinger and Swashbuckler will have Signature Deed, which means Mysterious Stranger get +DEX and +CHA to all shots and Swashbuckler can Parry and Riposte all day all the time.
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A really powerful, late-blooming build that springs to mind is wildshaping druid who specializes in a particular monster by taking feats and abiilities that enhance it. Take enough levels in Druid so you get Grab and Constrict. Take levels in Monk (I LOVE Master of Many Styles and Snake Fang), Take Multiattack, Weapon Focus and Feral Combat Training tentacle, cast Strong Jaw and Air Breathing on yourself, and Wild Shape into a Gian Octopus. You'll have 12 attacks/round, except that each will have Grab and Constrict, so that's more like 24 attack/round. Have octopus shaped armor spikes made for you, too, and do armor spike damage with every hit. Between Feral Combat Training, Strong Jaw, and the fact the Giant Octopi are large already, your damage/attack will be very high.

Your party is low in the area of front-line tanky fighters, and this might be just what they need.

If you aren't ready for full-on monktopus, then go with turning into a Triceratops instead. Advance to level 8 Saurian Shaman, and you will get Trample, and the Triceratops Gore does a lot of Damage, more than you would otherwise get with Feral Combat Training without investing heavily in Monk. Get Awesome Blow, Quick, Great Bull Rush, Minotaur Charge, Great Cleave, Powerful Shape, Combat Reflexes and a level in Cavalier with Paired Opportunist. Sadly, you don't get the Triceratops Natural Armor of +14, just the Beast Shape Natural Armor of +6. But you will Combine Reach and Bull Rush and give attacks of opportunity to your party.
Grand Lodge

MONKTOPUS!!!!!!! that's funny stuff right there.

Quote:

The existing party:

Fighter - Nodachi Crit. based
Mystic Theurge - Likes fireball / some healing
Winter Witch - Likes maximized lightning bolts and flying
Rogue - Pilferer (new member, little known)

I'm a little worried about your party

Looks like you have a Hammer, Hammer, Hammer, Hammer/Arm party

I would look into something that can bring Control to fights. Since no one is casting control style magics then your not going to be stepping on toes.

But out of the 2 character suggestions you posted I would rather go with the Barbarian. Make sure you get a nice +1 Adamantine Furious Giant Bane weapon. (your prolly gonna want reach as gaints tend to have it) Get that mystic Theurge to give you greater magic weapon on it and have fun swinging with a Uber powerful weapon in the last book. =)
Tho I have started to like the Bloodrager a lot more then a barbarian. Especially since your going to be going up to level 17. I have a build I'm dying to play that involves getting crazy amounts of (su) fast healing.

But really play what you want....you can only die and try again I guess.
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

MONKTOPUS!!!!!!! that's funny stuff right there.

Quote:

The existing party:

Fighter - Nodachi Crit. based
Mystic Theurge - Likes fireball / some healing
Winter Witch - Likes maximized lightning bolts and flying
Rogue - Pilferer (new member, little known)

I'm a little worried about your party

Looks like you have a Hammer, Hammer, Hammer, Hammer/Arm party

I would look into something that can bring Control to fights. Since no one is casting control style magics then your not going to be stepping on toes.

You could be right, though I probably type cast the spell casters a little too much, the Mystic does cast tentacles and has various protections on hand but is not often needed. The witch has only been with us for the last module where my rangers hatred of giants was a bit OP with many shot.

I'm pretty new to the variety of classes, are there control ones that are not standard arcane spell casters?
Grand Lodge

They typically are casters. But Bomb Alchemists can do it just as good.

Some melee builds can CC 1-2 things at a time but can not do it without going into melee. Grappling, Disarming, and tripping can cause havoc on a single target.

Reach martial characters can lock down a portion of squares with the right feats and deny enemy movement. But it is not a Hard lockdown like Black Tentacles, Pit spells, and Glitter Dust.

Quote:
You could be right, though I probably type cast the spell casters a little too much, the Mystic does cast tentacles and has various protections on hand but is not often needed. The witch has only been with us for the last module where my rangers hatred of giants was a bit OP with many shot.

How is Manyshot + Favored Enemy Giant OP? That is exactly how the class was designed. 1 man soloing a dungeon is OP....getting good damage dice on a class specialized in damage is not OP. It just seems your damage outshines others...good rangers do that.

The whole AP is Giant centered from the end of Book 3+. You should be good at killing giants and not shunned for it.

My suggestion: Human Druid 8/Fighter (Unbreakable) 1/Stalwart Defender 3

With Shaping Focus, you can turn into a huge earth elemental and use a reach weapon, for a 30 foot reach.

On your turn, you could potentially use Whirlwind Attack to great effect. But given the formation of your party, I would suggest spending your feats and actions on helpful spells.

Your real power will be when it isn't your turn. With Combat Reflexes and your spectacular reach you will be able to deal some great damage. But more importantly, one more level of Stalwart Defender will allow you force anyone you hit with an attack of opportunity to stop their movement.

And it helps to be about as difficult to kill as you can be.
Quote:
1 man soloing a dungeon is OP....getting good damage dice on a class specialized in damage is not OP.

I overstated myself I simply meant he was powerful throughout the module. (I was in no way shunned :) )

Monktopus does sound amazingly funny.

I will have to chat with the GM as the rest of the party is unaware of the upcoming change. Whatever I go for I need an RP concept that I will enjoy as this character switch is happening due to my ranger having no, well, character. :)

Sacred Fist - Other than some buffs and protections he lacks much control I think.

Magus? - Possibly just taking up spell slots needed for fighting to take the control? I saw a hexcrafter grapple build which looked fun and effective and might be able to have control spells prepared too.

Summoner? - My Eidelon can support the fighter and I can assist with control with my spell list

I've not really looked at druid much so I will go and do that.

I envision my monktopus as a surfer girl, maybe an elf or half elf with traits like Child of the Sea. Maybe the Flotsam Subdomain of Water. I'd have the armor she wears in human form to be glamered to look like a wetsuit, or maybe something else also appropriate for medieval fantasy swimming...

I have a few ideas still but I have adjusted my Mr Hyde Build to be more capable with control bombs. In Mutagenic mode he has AC29 and claws at +21 (1d6+12) or power attack +18 (1d6+18). I am debating removing the 2 discoveries for either healing touch or mummification for more bombs or maybe weapon focus claws.

alchemist build:

Control Hyde
Male Human (Varisian) alchemist 10 / master chymist 2 Archetypes Beastmorph,
None Medium humanoid (human)
Init +6,
=================================================
DEFENSE
=================================================
AC 23 (29), touch 14, flat-footed 21 (+7 armor, +2 deflection, +2 Dex, +2 natural, )
hp 94 ((10d8)+(2d10)+34)
Fort +13, Ref +13, Will +11
Immunities cold, nonlethal damage, paralysis, sleep,
=================================================
OFFENSE
=================================================
Speed 30 ft.
Ranged bomb +12 (14)/+7 (9) (1d6+3)
Special Attacks Bomb, Confusion Bomb*, Feral Mutagen, Frost Bomb*, Precise Bombs, Tanglefoot Bomb*, Throw Anything,
Mutagen NaturalClaw x2 +21 (1d6+12) Bite +19 (1d8+10)
(Bodywrap used on claws)
=================================================
STATISTICS
=================================================
Str 24 (30), Dex 14 (18), Con 14, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 7,
Base Atk +9; CMB +16; CMD 30
Feats Extra Bombs, Extra Discovery (4x), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Throw Anything
Skills
Traits Accelerated Drinker, Bruising Intellect,
Languages Common, Varisian
SQ advanced mutagen, alchemy, beastform mutagen, bomb-thrower, bonus feat, discoveries, greater beastform mutagen, greater mutagen, healing touch, improved beastform mutagen, mummification, mutagen, mutagenic form, mutate, poison use, preserve organs, skilled, spontaneous healing, swift poisoning,
Combat Gear Boots of Speed (10 charges),
Other Gear amulet of natural armor +2, headband of mental prowess (int/wis) +2, ring of protection +2, belt of giant strength +4, bodywrap of mighty strikes +2, cloak of resistance +3, kikko armor +2 (mithral), boots of speed, formula book, bomb, 150.0 gp

I've also not got much clearer ideas for:
Battle OracleReach and Pin down, trip when it's useful, basically stand in a place and take AoO and cast in my own turn.
Druid 9/Monk 3Wild form fighting with monk damage dice enlarged as much as possible. 3 levels behind but Druid control focused casting.
Magus Simple spell lite attack routine and focus spell book on control and debuff.

RP concepts:
Alchemist Caught up in a war/conflict supporting with everyday alchemy/medicine. Wants to help by enhancing the soldiers/heroes but is rebuked (possibly religion based). Survives war but at great loss, ends up in Magnimar selling potions in the underbridge district to fund his experiments on himself... at some point his personality split occurs and his investigations to rejoin them comes across Thasillonian magic... joins party. (this one I have a fuller story in my head but this is the basics)

Oracle / Druid Shoanti from Storval plains. Wakes up after his tribe/group are attacked only survivor. Had visions of something terrible coming soon. Tried to warn other tribes but generally rejected and thought to be in post trauma shock. Starts investigating the only clear part of the vision, a 7 pointed star. (quite possibly a half-orc)

Magus Some kind of arms crafter who keeps his ears open (for treasure/ potential evil or monsters?) and some how comes across the party. Has town/city/family he cares for and really wants to live mundane life crafting but recognizes his talents and feels obliged to eliminate these threats/ protect his town/city/family. (this is the least developed)

I'm tentative to go straight caster as we already have 2 so all these assist the fighter in someway whilst bringing something else to the group (I hope). I will put together some of these builds when I have time.

Rather than Oracle/Druid, why not Shaman? I would not recommend taking hits to your caster levels, especially 9th level casters since there are a number of fights that are made more manageable by having access to the appropriate spells for the challenge. A Reach Oracle would not get as much benefit out of AoOs because you'll be fighting Large and bigger enemies throughout the rest of the campaign, but it still is a decent choice. A Magus would be pretty decent and aid the other two melees, but I worry about d8 classes in melee with Giants because they hit HARD.
Drogos wrote:
Rather than Oracle/Druid, why not Shaman? I would not recommend taking hits to your caster levels...

I think I mislead you there, my oracle idea is pure oracle and my druid is druid/monk. I meant to indicate that the role playing story/character concept is the same for the oracle and the druid/monk build. Editing for clarity now.

Edit: turns out it is too late to edit the previous post. Which is bad as I just saw a typo where I meant to say I now have clearer ideas rather than not clear.

Gotcha. I played a Druid/Monk through book 3 and I habitually regretted being behind for the purpose of spell progression. If you want a spellcaster, just stay single classed. You get out of the real painful areas of being a spellcaster which are the low levels. 12 is where they start coming into their power and it only escalates. Plus, 9th level spells can be yours for the final book.

You should really consider a Skald Spell Warrior focused on Counterspelling and shooting arrows.

You have just the right level to start shining with archery and your several divination/counterspelling tools.
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