Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan makes a good case about Humans making the best content.
But what of NPC Content?
Has there been any talk/plans for ongoing mission content similar to EVE and early SWG? Not quests per se, but things that individuals can do to fill the gaps between group activities.
Or is there any talk of Quests/Stories to showcase Lore and background to the players?
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It's not MVP; we'll see it when it's ready.
We'll see it when the PVE players successfully get their voices heard over the PVP players' demands. I can't put hands on the quote from Ryan (Nihimon?), but PVE is meant to be as minimal as necessary, "necessary" being determined by the players.
That said, there are a lot of game systems that need to get put in place before significant work on PVE elements like Dungeons can be done.
I think one of the big disappointments players like Scorchbark have with the game in its current state, however, is that severe lack of NPC story, lore and other content. The game is currently almost purely PvP.
While I'll say the FUN is almost purely PvP, it seems one could ignore it and PvE endlessly.
We'll soon see what effect husks have on that, though.
Seeing a group PvE-ers waddling back to town with full bags of monster loot is going to make some PvP-ers salivate.
LOL, yeah I was just going back to edit that out.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can't put hands on the quote from Ryan (Nihimon?), but PVE is meant to be as minimal as necessary, "necessary" being determined by the players.
We will have more and more interesting things to do besides craft and make war - a very light layer at first but it will get richer over time as I'm virtually certain Crowdforging will push us that way. The "Exploration" and "Adventure" components of our matrix are going to get emphasis that EVE doesn't deliver.
I can't put hands on the quote from Ryan (Nihimon?), but PVE is meant to be as minimal as necessary, "necessary" being determined by the players.We will have more and more interesting things to do besides craft and make war - a very light layer at first but it will get richer over time as I'm virtually certain Crowdforging will push us that way. The "Exploration" and "Adventure" components of our matrix are going to get emphasis that EVE doesn't deliver.
Not the quote I was looking for, but Close enough
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Goblin Squad Member
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While I'll say the FUN is almost purely PvP, it seems one could ignore it and PvE endlessly.
We'll soon see what effect husks have on that, though.
Seeing a group PvE-ers waddling back to town with full bags of monster loot is going to make some PvP-ers salivate.
Going out in the country side and doing murder to NPCs isn't really PvE. It's just grinding your face on mobs. That is not going to keep any but the most bloodthirsty PvE'ers occupied for long. The whole issue with themepark MMOs is keeping the content rolling for the PvE crowd to consume. PFO isn't really even giving that right now.
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We'll see it when the PVE players successfully get their voices heard over the PVP players' demands.
You're joking right?
The fact that everything having any relation to PvP has to be couched into the realm of meaningful or purposeful or indirectly consensual (by activity) shows that the development of this game has been firmly directed away from "PvP-centric" and gradually more towards "I-Don't-Like-PvP" friendly.
The game is currently almost purely PvP.
Probably a good move because player-generated content is almost always more meaningful and interesting anyway. Not to mention more challenging. But the best part? I doesn't cost Goblin Works a dime to create the kind of political intrigue and warfare shenanigans that players are already doing on their own.
Sure, get GW to go off on a tangent and build you a dungeon full of NPC mobs that just stand there and line up for you to mow over with arrows (yawn). Meanwhile a host of other core features won't get implemented because of budget, and the PvE content will still probably not be able to compete with other AAA PvE-based MMO's already out there.
Open world PvP with settlement-based conflict that players operate is the main unique selling point of PFO. Not focusing on the core components of that feature set would be a grave mistake, IMHO.
</rant>
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The biggest thing about PvE content is that it is expensive to make and quick to be consumed.
Anything done within the available budget would have to be repeated hundreds or thousands of times to provide PvE content to a dedicated player; are you happy playing the first floor of the Emerald Spire for six months straight, even though it would be renamed monsters in a new map and have the same gameplay as an escalation?
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Goblin Squad Member
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While I'll say the FUN is almost purely PvP, it seems one could ignore it and PvE endlessly.
Well, you COULD do PvE endlessly at the moment, but once you have enough resources, enough recipes, enough gear, it loses a lot of its relevance to the bigger picture. Just like, given a steady supply of gear, you could just PvP endlessly with a willing opponent for no purpose - but both of those on their own (in their current form) would be boring after a few weeks, IMO. The sum of the two is greater than the whole.
The fact that everything having any relation to PvP has to be couched into the realm of meaningful or purposeful or indirectly consensual (by activity) shows that the development of this game has been firmly directed away from "PvP-centric" and gradually more towards "I-Don't-Like-PvP" friendly.
The game needs both PvP'ers and PvE'ers in order to function as envisioned. Hostility from "extremists" directed at the other end of the spectrum is counter-productive.
Well, you COULD do PvE endlessly at the moment, but once you have enough resources, enough recipes, enough gear, it loses a lot of its relevance to the bigger picture. Just like, given a steady supply of gear, you could just PvP endlessly with a willing opponent for no purpose - but both of those on their own (in their current form) would be boring after a few weeks, IMO.
Really?
PvE content is static and never changes. The mobs have little in the way of AI, if at all, and the attacks and responses are predictable. The challenge, if there is one, usually depends on making the mobs so overpowered as to require you to fight them for an exhausting amount of time or to have to execute precise actions repeatedly over and over in a monotonous manner.
You go up against a thinking human and you really have no idea what they are going to do. They could run (which mobs don't do) they could rush you, or maybe a comrade could jump in and surprise you. So many possible outcomes. Boring?
I think it's bizarre how you can equate the two so easily in your mind.
The first time I ever played a combat game against other people was probably like 16 years ago. It was a WWII flight sim and I remember getting the shakes from the adrenaline rush.
I got that the first time I got ganked (attempted) in PFO.
I've never gotten that feeling from doing quest or raid content in WoW or ESO, etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The first time I ever played a combat game against other people was probably like 16 years ago. It was a WWII flight sim and I remember getting the shakes from the adrenaline rush.
I got that the first time I got ganked (attempted) in PFO.
I've never gotten that feeling from doing quest or raid content in WoW or ESO, etc.
Yep, when I want an adrenaline rush I fire up a FPS or combat flight sim. There is nothing like having bits flying off your 109 with someone right on your 6 to get the blood pounding. I spent 10 years in IL2 flying for the Luftwaffe online.
However if I want to relax I do some PvE, often ironically in EVE with my mission alt.
Neither is right or wrong they are just different. Some people like both at different times, others just need their adrenaline fix especially if real life is a bit mundane and others pretty much come online to wind down chill out and chat on teamspeak while doing something simple.
The two extreme types will never agree. If someone regularly needs a PvP adrenaline rush they will see PvE as a pointless grind and visa versa.
Most games focus on one or the other. It's only rare exceptions like EVE and PFO that try and appeal to both groups in the same game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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EVE shows that it is better to have a symbiosis of PvE and PvP. Each feeds the other. PvE generates wealth and resources, PvP destroys wealth the resources.
In other words PvE provides value, and thus "risk" to PvP.
For me I don't really get a rush out of direct PvP. In EVE, (and most RPG PvP), the fight is usually determined before the first shot is fired. You are either the ganker or the gankie. Unless otherwise set up, no open world PvP match up in MMORPGs is truly 50-50.
With that said, I think EVE offers a lot more in indirect or non-combat PvP. I get my rush taking my industrial (or transport) in to low-sec to pull out my PI. Or running though the Rancor Pipe to take the short cut between Hek and Jita.
So there should be PvE, but it should not be Safe PvE.
In EVE, (and most RPG PvP), the fight is usually determined before the first shot is fired. You are either the ganker or the gankie. Unless otherwise set up, no open world PvP match up in MMORPGs is truly 50-50.
It can be pretty exciting to try and get your hauler out of a tackle and away to safety though. :D
Or watch some nub try to make a dent in your hulled out orca.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It can be pretty exciting to try and get your hauler out of a tackle and away to safety though. :D
Or watch some nub try to make a dent in your hulled out orca.
Try running in a T1 Indy with out "Warp to 0" trying to get out of 0.0 with a good portion of your own wealth. It is all in the preparation. The gate camp thought the had a nice whale. But I got out without any damage.