Hey guys,
Been trying to develop a new character (in case I die - Which is likely) So I'm going to come back as a beastly Dragon Disciple :D
I've taken a read of Oterisks guide (which was a great help, and awesome :D )
I've decided a Nagaji would be awesome as a Dragon Disciple.
Just a few questions (I'll update throughout)
1. I still need a caster (to be able to do spells and whatnot).
Ok, so I'm using Nagaji, which satisfies the prerequisites for speaking draconic, the only other two now are 5 ranks in Arcana, and I need a level 1 caster. Who would be best to use? Would I be better sticking with a sorcerer?
Ultimate goal is to turn into a dragon. (which I can do at level 7, - Our group is currently level 9).
I've somewhat made up my ability scores.
Relied heavily on strength. Thoughts?
Ability = 78 Points
Strength = 10 + Racial = 12 + 8 = 20
Dexterity = 10 + 6 = 16
Constitution = 10 + 10 = 20
Intelligence = 10 – Racial = 8
Wisdom = 10 + 4 = 14
Charisma = 10 + Racial = 12
Will be updating this thread with more information/questions as I finish him off. It took me hours to settle on my Monk build... So this'll be a long process
Cheers
Simon
With the ability score generation method you appear to be using, there's no reason not to max strength as well, is there? Dexterity and wisdom are nice, but not nice enough to justify missing out on one more point of attack on a half-BAB, melee character. Also, you really want one more point in charisma so that you can get a 14 at level 4.
Yes, sorcerer really is the right class for dragon disciple. The PrC advances the sorcerer draconic bloodline, not bloodrager or anything else. If you can get your GM to agree that it should advance a bloodrager draconic bloodline it could be worth going that way.
avr wrote: With the ability score generation method you appear to be using, there's no reason not to max strength as well, is there? Dexterity and wisdom are nice, but not nice enough to justify missing out on one more point of attack on a half-BAB, melee character. Also, you really want one more point in charisma so that you can get a 14 at level 4.
Yes, sorcerer really is the right class for dragon disciple. The PrC advances the sorcerer draconic bloodline, not bloodrager or anything else. If you can get your GM to agree that it should advance a bloodrager draconic bloodline it could be worth going that way.
Ability score generation method?
Seems to be a wise decision :D
I did look at Bloodrager, and he looked awesome. But I doubt my GM would approve :D
Cheers
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
A nagaji with the hypnotic gaze racial trait qualifies for the spellcasting. You just lose out on them, and since your starting charisma is abysmal for spellcasting why even bother with using a spellcasting class?
I'd personally go for strength and charisma being equal, 18 str, 17 charisma should be doable with that generation method, there's no need for having con that high, you could easily drop it to 14.
Damanta wrote: A nagaji with the hypnotic gaze racial trait qualifies for the spellcasting. You just lose out on them, and since your starting charisma is abysmal for spellcasting why even bother with using a spellcasting class?
I'd personally go for strength and charisma being equal, 18 str, 17 charisma should be doable with that generation method, there's no need for having con that high, you could easily drop it to 14.
You need to have a spellcaster level to become a Dragon Disciple?
I was under the impression a higher con meant higher HP?
The GM is particular in which classes everyone can use... Most of us are using standard ones (Ya know clerics, fighters etc).
If you don't want to use the Bloodrager (because honestly, if you're already a Bloodrager why bother with Dragon Disciple) but you still want to be melee based, may I suggest the Bard? Really good at self & group buffing, Medium BAB class, etc.
Still, you need 5 levels of a class before you can enter into DD (rank requirements) so before the days of Bloodrager I liked going either Barbarian 4/Bard 1 or Bard 4/Barbarian 1 for level 2 spells (Heroism!). Maintaing a performance is totally allowed during rage, after all.
I really did consider the barb. lol A bit of reading led me to believe the Barb would be great for Dragon Disciple...
But the issue here in lies that I want to be able to turn into a dragon now. (Gotta be level 7 to take the form).
Would that allow me the form of the Dragon?
Dragon Form requires 7 levels in dragon disciple. Since you have to have at least 5 levels before entering DD, you won't be turning into a dragon until at least 12th level.
Oh?
Where does it say you have to have at least 5 levels before entering DD?
A group member has already done it, and that was well before 12th level...
5 ranks in knowledge (arcana) is a prerequisite. That requires 5 levels.
Ahh I see... I didn't quite understand that... Maybe my DM doesn't take that into account? (When building new characters already levelled?
Of course non-PFS GM's can ignore any rules they want, but this is the rule.
core rulebook wrote: Acquiring Skills
Each level, your character gains a number of skill ranks dependent upon your class plus your Intelligence modifier. Investing a rank in a skill represents a measure of training in that skill. You can never have more ranks in a skill than your total number of Hit Dice.
My guess is that your GM simply doesn't understand the rules. Sometimes people think that being a class skill or getting the skill focus feat will increase your ranks beyond your HD, but they only increase the value of your roll, not your ranks.
You'll notice that none of Oterisk's builds enter DD before 6th level. If it were legal, people would do it a lot more often.
Hit dice? as in D12/D10 etc?
But, take for example my monk, the d20pfsrd page for him says 'Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier'
So, wouldn't that satisfy the requirement? First level monk would then have 4 skill ranks that I could place in Arcana knowledge? Which means that if I put one more in it at level 2, I'd satisfy the prerequisite?
No individual skill can have more ranks than your level (which is the same as your HD for a PC). if you have 4 skill ranks as a 1st level character, you can put 1 rank each in four different skills, but you can't put more than 1 rank into any one skill.
Right, so my Monk got the axe last night :D
Threw my own stupidity, I insulted a bunch of dwarfs that happened to be in a Gunsmith guild, right after they'd had most of their village destroyed and thousands of their people killed... lol
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Sorry to hear about that.
Ahh not too concerned... I shouldn't have called the Dwarfs little pink things... lol
With spell like abilities, any class can qualify for DD. Even commoners.
Arcane Classes can benefit from the bonus spellcasting levels, but the prepared casters lose out on the two free spells they get to add to their spellbook/familiar.
There's a Kobold feat that lets divine classes progress through DD too, and humans, half-elves/orcs, and Aasimars(with Scion of Humanity) can get the feat after taking Racial Heritage(Kobold).
My top choices for DD:
Paladin 4/Bard 1/DD x
Bloodrager 5/DD X (probally better to go straight BR however, and no GM decision on whether you can or not)
Swash 4/Bard 1/DD X
Barb 4/Bard 1/DD X
You have good HP and BaB with each of these routes. Bard is strictly a better choice in terms of the prereq spellcasting class. The only reason to go Sorcerer is for earlier access to the claws and armor. However, you trade a lot away for it (BaB and hit points).
No matter what, you will not be going dragon mode till level 12 no matter how you slice it. Even going Bloodrager, you do not get the form while raging till level 12.
Skald4/Bloodrager1 is actually pretty nice for DD.
Knew I forgot one. You can replace Bard in all of my suggestions with Skald if it fits your style better.
You can also just go straight Skald if you like.
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I have a pfs nagaji paladin 4 (oath bound paladin vs fiends and vengeance) / arcane duelist bars (1) / dragon disciple (5). He is quite potent especially as a tank as I have invested heavily in lay on hands (fey foundling, greater mercy, extra lay on hands, ultimate mercy and bracers of the merciful knight - which raise his effective level for lay on hands to a paladin 8.
He has a 24 str currently and a 22 CHA (and has money to spend so may have a 26 str soon. A few levels ago he had an adventure where without healing from others he survived some 200+hp (though between lay on hands, smite evil, arcane strike and his spells he pretty much always uses a swift or an immediate action.
He gets both divine and arcane spells and I have carefully chosen his bard spells to all not have somatic components so casting them while in heavy armor isn't an issue.
He is quite complex to play (two spell lists, lots of factors effecting spells known vs caster levels, lots of abilities with limited uses and a lot of decisions to be made every round (including on other player's turns many of his bardic spells are immediate actions and many great paladin spells are swift actions.
My other Dragon Disciple is a very different build but also great fun - he's a gnome fighter sorcerer dragon disciple (so sub optimal to be sure) but there is definitely a bit difference in taking mostly levels of sorcerer vs a single level of bard in terms of the power of bloodline abilities and his casting ability. He is definitely a blaster type (pyromaniac) and also quite fun. He has the robe that raises his effective sorcerer level for his bloodline abilities - meaning that he has a 2x a day breath weapon for 11d6 at level 9 which is pretty potent indeed.
But in short the nagaji is indeed a really fun build for the dragon disciple but really it is hard to build an unfun dragon disciple. Definitely my favorite prestige class.
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