So far, we have an Elf Wizard Evoker (I had recommended an abjurer) played by the veteran player in the group.
A Tiefling variant Barbarian (two handed sword eventually, Beast Totem rage tree) played by a rookie.
An aasimar variant Bard (Arcane Duelist) played by the most inexperienced player in the group. Into melee.
An aasimar Cleric (Good, Restoration) played by a rookie. Into melee.
A 5th player who hasn't made his character yet.
With the Wizard and Bard, we have all the knowledges covered. Problem is, we don't have anybody who has ranks in Perception and Disable Device to handle traps. Are there traps in Runelords? Do we need an archer or other class that does distance damage?
I'm not really sure you need a dedicated Archer per se, you should definitely have a bow of some sort as a secondary weapon. I do not recommend a Gunslinger, they would feel kind of tacked on.
I will say if you want your party to take certain classes or schools or whatever, reverse psychology is your best friend:-) or at least sideways psychology. I've never, ever- and i mean ever- had a single person use my recommendations for anything related to race, class and APs:-)
"I hear you say i should be an Archer, but all of a sudden i really want to be a Monk" is usually how it goes.
as far as traps, they can always multi-class if they become an issue:-)
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Go with Ranger. They can do trapfinding, especially with certain archetypes.
Alternatively, go with Investigator. They also can do trapfinding, and have other nifty abilities. You don't even need go for much in the way of Knowledge skills or the like with the class if you don't want to.
Go with Ranger. They can do trapfinding, especially with certain archetypes.
Alternatively, go with Investigator. They also can do trapfinding, and have other nifty abilities. You don't even need go for much in the way of Knowledge skills or the like with the class if you don't want to.
I'm pretty sure they stick more to CRB and less the new books, although i could be wrong:)
I second Tangents recommendation of Ranger. Go with a switch hitter Trapper Ranger.
Rangers are really good in Runelords...maybe a Dwarf Ranger...with favored enemy: giant. ;)
Traps aren't a dealbreaker.
The Evoker's a fine class if you don't focus on direct damage (or if you do, know what you're doing). Evocation has a nice suite of battlefield control spells, so if this wizard explores his school a bit, he should fill his niche quite readily.
A gunslinger would situationally devastate portions of this AP, it's true. It would take a moderately experienced GM to accommodate.
I agree that a ranger would be a good fit, but then, almost anything would.
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No Gunslingers. The touch ACs of many of the npcs are so easy to hit it becomes a turkey shoot for the Gunslinger. Espcially if the person running the Gunslinger has no system mastery. The person running the character did so much damage in my games. I was doubling in some cases tripling the hit points to avoid a one shot kill. A dedicated archer is better and is less of a headache for a DM. If traps are a worry I would recommend the Archeologist or Investigator. I find both do a better job of trapfinding then the Rogue does. Or a Bard with a level dip with Rogue.
My only other recommendation is to take a hard look at what the party can do and then at the npcs. Like most APs the npcs are poorly built. So much so that even a party with beginners could easily defeat some of the BBEGS. For example one of them has no crowd control spells yet the pcs are supposed to fight the npc in a enclosed area. As well the human fort occupied by Ogres should be redone completely. Large creatures in a medium sized structure are at a disadvantage. Keep the Ogres outside the fort. Replace with Bugbear, Hobgoblins or Orcs. Not to mention the Ogres in Pathfinder are a rather special lot. Think the Hills have Eyes types. So that may bother some more squeamsih players.
Memo, a ranger can take ranged combat style for his archery feats, and then use a greatsword/greataxe with power attack plus any other melee feats he wants picked up from level gains, and be good at both. By level 6 it will be a moot point though, as he can select Point Blank Master as his combat style feat and always fire in melee without provoking AoOs.
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Memo, a ranger can take ranged combat style for his archery feats, and then use a greatsword/greataxe with power attack plus any other melee feats he wants picked up from level gains, and be good at both. By level 6 it will be a moot point though, as he can select Point Blank Master as his combat style feat and always fire in melee without provoking AoOs.
Classic switch-hitter.
You guys never answered if there's traps in Runelords or not.
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There's traps in all Paizo APs. Runelords is no exception. Some of them are debilitating. Some of them are inconveniences. If you have someone that gets trapfinding, they can take care of them with a roll of the die. If you don't, you'll have to find an alternative solution.
So, in general, standard advice for PF. If you don't have someone with ability X that can defeat quality Y, then you have to figure out an alternative solution to get around quality Y.
An alchemist doesn't go amiss in this AP.
For later portions of the game (way later) a 2nd type of wizard might be nice or one of the historical knowledge type characters.
The REALLY nasty traps are in Book 5. But even then, they're not too bad.
Book 3 has plenty in the beginning portion of it as well, but nothing too debilitating/lethal if you don't have a minesweeper.
You guys never answered if there's traps in Runelords or not.
What!? Stay on topic? And avoid spoilers? Boy you're expectations are high. :)
Perception is good. Trapfinding is good. Skill monkey is good. You can find all kinds of threads out here that will tell you that Rogues are useless and recommend all kinds of variant or alternate classes. Which is all well and good if your DM allows them and your group's play style fits. Sure you can let the meat shields eat the traps and the barbarian can smash the chest open and the cleric can memorize a lot of find traps and your bard can pour skill points into perception and disable device. But if you aren't comfortable with those solutions, a Rogue will do the job.
Also, ranged attacks would be very good and a rogue can do that as can a ranger (recommended heavily above.) If you think about it, all Earth based weapon development has been about destroying more stuff from farther and farther away...
And yes there are plenty of traps in RotRL.
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Spoil away, actually. I happen to be the DM.
However, don't rag on the Rogue. They aren't a half bad class, imho, and I'm tired of hearing the bad press on this message board.
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The REALLY nasty traps are in Book 5. But even then, they're not too bad. ** spoiler omitted **
Book 3 has plenty in the beginning portion of it as well, but nothing too debilitating/lethal if you don't have a minesweeper.
Ah yes, Book 5.
Known to my players as "The Plane of Elemental Dungeon."