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Everyone who has voted in previous RPG Superstar competitions knows that there are some item concepts that keep showing up, no matter how many times they've been done before, or how many times people are warned against them. But with the switch to other types of magic items, how might those cliches change? Here are my predictions:
On the way out:
-Magic Walkie-Talkies (they'll still be here, mostly as rings, but I predict a lot less of them)
-Camping items
Here to stay:
-Spells in a can (will any staves avoid this?)
-Skill bonuses in a can
-Blood, gore, and mutilation
-Elaborate backstories (on steroids this year)
The new cliches:
-Life-stealing swords
-Metamagic feats disguised as rods
-Items intended to "fix" the ACG classes
-Weapon/armor special abilities instead of unique items
What are your predictions?
-Spells in a can (will any staves avoid this?)
I think EVERY staff out there already is the very definition of both SiaC AND a SAK. I'm looking at the existing published staves on PFSRD and I'm finding it hard to call any of them real RPG Superstar material.
[Cheeky mode on]
But aren't spells in a can called POTIONS?
[Cheeky mode off]
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I'm guessing there will be quite a few conspicuously wondrous-item-like magic items. (However it should be noted - as discussed in another thread - repurposing is 100% fine if you do it so well no-one will notice what the item originally was.)
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I think EVERY staff out there already is the very definition of both SiaC AND a SAK. I'm looking at the existing published staves on PFSRD and I'm finding it hard to call any of them real RPG Superstar material.
-Spells in a can (will any staves avoid this?)
Not all magic item types are equal. :) Some of the options are traps or at least require a legendary amount of mojo to pull off.
Staffs would be quite difficult. However I plan to be very impressed as due to the quality of individuals that normally compete I expect to see at least one quality staff.
I think that the list at the beginning of this is quite likely to be true.
I expect to see as a new cliche:
Armor that operates as one or two categories lighter. Especially heavy armor operating as light.
or
Armor that eliminates the speed penalty
Armor that does not inhibit arcane spellcasting.
Weapons that produce a spell effect when they hit. Bonus points if the weapon's blade/striking edge is completely replaced with a spell.
Loving this thread so far.
Post
Checks against design - nope, I'm not that
More posts
Checks against design - nope, I'm not that
More posts
Checks against design - nope, I'm not that
... grin.
I'd just like to point out that every year at least one of the entries that gets into the second round "violates" or even is one of the cliches but passes on other qualities or a unique take on the design. "Spell-in-a-can" would come to mind, as every year a few items that make it by are commonly described that way.
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Crap there goes my crimson speedster platemail of arcane casting
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Dammit and my quickened maximized rod of awesomesauce... cut it out guys
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Dammit and my staff of greased lightning is out too... It was going to cast grease AND lightning!
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I'd just like to point out that every year at least one of the entries that gets into the second round "violates" or even is one of the cliches but passes on other qualities or a unique take on the design. "Spell-in-a-can" would come to mind, as every year a few items that make it by are commonly described that way.
Awesome can transcend unspoken rules or even just plain common sense.
If someone is convinced that their item is awesome enough to pass in spite of having cliché overtones, submitting it is their prerogative. If it makes it, it proves their confidence was well founded.
On the other hand, if someone submits a cliché item, it doesn't make it in, and it gets panned as cliché when submitted to a critique thread, then I hope that item's author is not one of the ones who will take umbrage at people pointing out that it wasn't awesome enough to overcome its origins. (Well, one or two meltdowns of that nature per year can be kind of entertaining, so I don't always hope that...)
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There goes my "fire hating" scimitar of the dark elf
And my troll-trove-found elfin-dagger that is as good as a shortsword for a hob.... halfling. No wait, that's just the weapon size rules... Ok ok, extra damage vs goblins/orcs, lites up when proximity to said creatures attained; prized by hob...halflings, requires 24 hours of attunement with mithril...mithral chainmail, created by elf-smiths in ages past. Covered in etched filigree. Yup. Let's call it... Pinch. *Submit*. [Yawns] I love the smell of originality in the morning.
Stormbringer...
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Brilliant energy longsword with brilliant energy crossguards.
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I'm putting my chips on a green ring from an alien race found in the crash site of a spaceship in Numeria, which allows its weaerer to fly and create all sorts of objects made of green energy. Only those with a high enough Will save may wield its power.
Modules Overlord
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I think EVERY staff out there already is the very definition of both SiaC AND a SAK. I'm looking at the existing published staves on PFSRD and I'm finding it hard to call any of them real RPG Superstar material.
-Spells in a can (will any staves avoid this?)
A staff that does not feel like a SIAC is going to be VERY tough to pull off. But if someone manages to do it, I think we'll all be VERY impressed.
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I think we're gonna get A LOT of staves this year because of the perceived challenge and prestige of it. ;p
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I think we're gonna get A LOT of staves this year because of the perceived challenge and prestige of it. ;p
Sort of like we had 6/32 (IIRC) fey creatures last year for the urban monsters round.
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I think we're gonna get A LOT of staves this year because of the perceived challenge and prestige of it. ;p
Would you go so far as to call it a staff infection?
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Would you go so far as to call it a staff infection?
I was telling my wife about the twist this morning, and she suggested a staff that causes MRSA. She thought it was very clever. :)
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Rings with filigree!
Heh.
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Rings with filigree!
Heh.
Gold ones - and the filigree spells out "the one ring" in sylvan!
During the down time, I took the opportunity to have a go at a pratice staff - and I can confirm that staves are REALLY HARD to do without being a Spell in a Can.
I discovered that with every permutation I tried, the only change to the spells used in construction of the staff was the delivery method of their effects.
Here is one for free as an example (this is not my entry, so don't panic!)
I thought about using a weapon that forces opponents weapons to become the same weapon. I thought, how often does a melee character choose staff. And wouldn't it be nice for the poor caster under pressure to change that fighters great axe into a staff and impose some non proficiency penalties on them...
Resulted in this draft of a staff... (138 words)
Equalizing Stave
Aura strong transmutation; CL 15th
Slot none; Price 47,500 gp; Weight 5 lbs.
Description
With the exception of its ebony end caps the entire surface of this +3 oak staff is etched with pictograms of every known weapon type.
Making a successful melee attack against a target causes the targets held weapon to transform into a solid oak staff. The damage dice and type are changed to match that of a basic staff, however enchantments upon the weapon still apply. The transformed weapon will remain in its new state for 1 hour after which it reverts to its normal form. The wielder of the transformed weapon is subject to all penalties, and changes to their attack bonus as they would normally experience when wielding a staff.
Construction
Requirements Craft Staff, polymorph any object; Cost 23,750 gp
It really is just polymorph any object in a can!
That said - check out the template use - if your item looks similar to this in the submission preview window, with bits in bold and other bits italicized as they should be - then there is a very good chance you have nailed the template. :)
Do use that preview button - it will save you a lot of grief once public voting opens and the comment threads start filling up with "ack, my eyes, my eyes" and similar.
In case you are wondering, that was my first fully complete draft of the idea with pricing, etc - so I know there are some wording issues.
Other things worth pointing out...
The weight - that's the same as all the other magical staves in the CRB.
The slot - that's the same as all the .... you can guess the rest ;)
The price - is not perfect, I looked at calculating it and then reviewed the staff against all other staves in the book, adjusting the price to what I think places it correctly for the powers it provides.
So if you are doing an item, make sure you check your weights and slots match up with similar items if you can. I will be checking them when I get to vote on them.
@AA this is actually a pretty cool item but could have been a wee bit cooler if you could translate the +1s into different weapon properties along with the form.
I would have voted for that staff!
Agggh... I'm making a weapon that I have to have a few subsections to (it's kind of a SAK, kind of not) and I'm working reaaaly hard to keep down the word count.
I kind of agree with Solspiral, AA. I don't think I would call that a spell in a can. A spell in a can would be if it could simply cast polymorph any object. That's something that could be a cool item, especially if you're messing with a fighter who might not have staff in his weapon training group (granted, you probably have more problems if you're a wizard in melee with a fighter, but still...).
@AA this is actually a pretty cool item but could have been a wee bit cooler if you could translate the +1s into different weapon properties along with the form.
I would have voted for that staff!
Thanks! Glad you liked it. I like to think what I entered is cooler, but only time will tell.
I deliberately avoided bloating the item by translating +1s into weapon properties as that way lies SAK of SAK-iness.
The problem with any multi-function item is it is very very easy to get carried away / cross the line of thematically closely linked to SAK.
Doomkitten - here's a tip you might find useful...
The list you currently have - STOP - don't add anything else.
You can look for "similar" effects and pick the most powerful, dropping the lesser effect for example.
Basically, prune the powers - release the word count.
Now, pick the best 3 from that list. Lose the rest. Sorted.
I have found "3 is the magic number" is actually accurate in the situation you find yourself from your post :) Hope it helps.
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I am also down to three ideas I'm drafting up. Currently I'm in love with all three ideas but can see issues with 1 in particular because people will label it based off of inspiration. Another I have SAK issues with, the last is my most likely choice but I won;t know for sure until I truly draft out all 3
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I'm all in and entered, so if you want another pair of eyes on them GM_Solspiral, feel free to PM me - I'm a dab hand at removing SAK these days - thanks to Sean's course :)
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Equalizing Stave
While it's not a SiaC as some people already pointed out, and it is a pretty cool effect, there is a fatal mistake in it: It doesn't fit the design space of staves. Staves always have a bulleted list of spells, and each of the different uses spends a number of charges. This one is built much like a wondrous item both in presentation and mechanics. It might get past the voters' radars, but Mark and the other judges wouldn't be fooled.
Minor nitpicks:
* Staff is not a weapon type (you probably meant quarterstaff; is it +3/+3 or is only one end enchanted?)
* Targets > target's (Template Fu!)
* No save vs the effect is very harsh despite the price tag; if it spent some charges, it wouldn't be quite so bad.
Still, as I said, very cool effect. :)
What's an SAK?
Template Fu: Honestly, that looks more like a Magical Weapon to me than a Staff, and I think all the staves that are also enchanted as weapons require Craft Magical Arms and Armor as well. To be a real "Magical Staff" I would think that an item would have to have ten rechargeable charges and at least one spell to cast with them. But to be an interesting item, it should probably do something else too.
...I had an idea for a staff that I may submit, so I may be somewhat defensive of the idea.
...wrote a very useful snippet on stave design - check it out ;), make sure you don't make the same mistake...
And he also said...
Still, as I said, very cool effect. :)
Let's hope my real entry pulls that off without making a fatal mistake then. I probably would have caught the quarterstaff thing, but I didn't do my usual scan of existing similar items check. It was a very rough draft.
I hope everyone checks for their submission items! :P
Here's some more tips for those checking their item for submission...
If you have "appears to be", "will", "can", "may" in your text, rework it to remove them. These phrases make your description weaker than it should be (they are known as obvious signs of passive writing) and often allude to a writer being unsure about something - not knowing how to express what they want to say.
As a player/GM, I want to know what the item looks like not what it appears to look like because I then wonder what it actually looks like... (yeah that was a fun sentence to construct :P)
Keep it simple, say what it IS, say what is DOES - then get out!
Example:
"This item appears to be a sword composed of a large angel wing feature and may be extremely light. It can slice through solid stone with apparent ease" - ow ow ow
reworking to remove a lot of passive woolliness...
"This sword, constructed from an angel's flight feather, slices through stone up to 1 foot thick".
Thanks Anthony, I may well take you up on that. I have an excellent writing circle and I think we are all presently scrambling!
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What's an SAK?
Swiss Army Knife. In other words, a bunch of spells or powers in one item. Which is the very definition of a staff.
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What's an SAK?
Template Fu: Honestly, that looks more like a Magical Weapon to me than a Staff, and I think all the staves that are also enchanted as weapons require Craft Magical Arms and Armor as well. To be a real "Magical Staff" I would think that an item would have to have ten rechargeable charges and at least one spell to cast with them. But to be an interesting item, it should probably do something else too.
...I had an idea for a staff that I may submit, so I may be somewhat defensive of the idea.
SAK = Swiss Army Knife - an item with a collection of totally unrelated or very loosely related effects... - so Staves are even harder now... grin.
Example: This staff...
casts fireball three times a day,
creates campfires on demand,
extinguishes/lights all the candles in a church at once,
causes all loaded guns in a mile radius to fire immediately,
burns books,
and heats held metal weapons only
I'd be careful with saying not to use "can" and "may" in your writing. Those can be crucial words. For example, in the luck blade, it MAY contain three wishes, but it may also contain less.
Those are different than "appears to be" or "will," which I agree you should generally try to remove.
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What's an SAK?
"Swiss Army Knife" --- as in an item that does everything.
We could really use a Sticky in the General Discussion that includes a list of the most common shorthands and abbreviations and what they mean to lower the level of entry for new people to the RPG Superstar competition. Did we have one in past years to direct people to?
Items that negate a spell or attack and throw it back at the assailant while gaining some kind of buff against that type of attack. I saw like 7 or 8 of those last year and I don't think any of them made it top 100.
Would such a thread really need to be stickied for the benefit of new entrants, though? AFAIK, abbreviations have not been used or referenced by any of the designers in any of the relevant rules and FAQs that are the baseline for all potential entrants. They're really just used in the discussion threads, which are not strictly required, and I'd argue just as potentially prohibitive to new entrants based on their density already.
Not saying it wouldn't be a good idea, but I'm just not sure it needs to be given a high priority over more relevant things like the Judge's Tips and/or actual Rules threads themselves. Just a bit of clutter (and I can't see someone saying they didn't stand a chance in the competition because they didn't know what a SAK was, nor were they somehow unable to use the Search function because they didn't.)
Would such a thread really need to be stickied for the benefit of new entrants, though? AFAIK, abbreviations have not been used or referenced by any of the designers in any of the relevant rules and FAQs that are the baseline for all potential entrants. They're really just used in the discussion threads, which are not strictly required, and I'd argue just as potentially prohibitive to new entrants based on their density already.
While limiting stickies to official stuff would be the wisest course, I just foresee moments where someone, regardless of if they've been here before or if they're brand new, does finally post a comment and the responses have enough local lingo like SAK, SAIC, etc. that they need to respond with "What's XYZ mean?"
Also, we don't have Sean's list of advice where I believe (???) many of these terms come from easily available like previous years, though Mark does have a nice, new version.
I have to say that I was dying to make a rod that allowed the wielder to use Force Hook Charge as part of a melee full attack (i.e. give up one of your iterative attacks to make a ranged melee attack for the spell).
It would be a blast to use, and I was really close to convincing myself that it wasn't both a spell-in-a-can and class-feature-in-a-can; which doesn't even take into account the likelihood that my inspiration would be noticed. :)
I went with something else, but a hook-shot item would just be way to cool.
This is why you should look at previous years' entries. There was a Top 32 one year called the batrachian helm which had a hookshot-type effect, but it was a frog's tongue.
Also, last year I had to point out to someone that their wondrous item was really just a hookshot.