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I'm wondering if it's legal for this trait to be taken by an Oracle. It is stated as Cleric only from the Faction Guide. However, this book was written before the Advanced Players Guide (there's an advert for it on the back cover. It seems logical as there is a lot of overlap between Oracles and Clerics.
From the Faction Guide:
Exalted of the Society (Cleric, Pathfinder Society):
The vaults of the Grand Lodge in Absalom contain many
secrets of the divine powers of the gods, and you have
studied your god extensively. You may channel energy 1
additional time per day.
From the Shattered Star Player's Guide:
Exalted of the Society (faith): The vaults of the Grand
Lodge in Absalom contain many secrets of the divine powers
of the gods, and you have studied your deity extensively. You
may channel energy one additional time per day.
This seems to be a more sensible and more up to date version of this trait. Oddly enough this adventure path is the only one where the characters themselves are Pathfinders. Not to mention that for some reason some Players Guide's from some AP's are legal and some aren't
To me it it makes sense, if it's not level per RAW it damn well should be.
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This is actually one of the confusing points, where, for once, the most current version of a trait is not the version of the trait that is PFS legal.
This has been brought up before, and I posted about the update over on the HeroLab boards, so HeroLab now uses the Shattered Star version, but PFS is still only using the version from the Faction Guide.
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Until the campaign staff decides which version they want to use, it can currently only be used by Clerics.
This is probably due to the fact that only clerics as a class start with a channel ability automatically (Paladins gain it later). There are corner cases like the Life Oracle and Necromancer which get it I suppose. Since Mike and John have no lives and read everything on these boards, I'm sure they'll review this for the next iteration of the Additional Resources.
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Defender of the Society gives you a +1 Trait bonus to AC when wearing medium or heavy armor, but you need to be a Fighter. Seems to me if they opened up Exalted of the Society to Oracles, they'd have to do the same for the others. Lots of the class specific Traits could (in theory) be applied to other classes. It's much easier to just leave them the way they are.
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Aasimar Life Oracles aren't. They are completely nerfed, Kyle.What?
I played with a life oracle at 6th level channelling like a lot higher level life oracle because they used the favored class bonus of assist
Why would you say aasimar life oracles are neared?
Because sarcasm.
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Defender of the Society gives you a +1 Trait bonus to AC when wearing medium or heavy armor, but you need to be a Fighter. Seems to me if they opened up Exalted of the Society to Oracles, they'd have to do the same for the others. Lots of the class specific Traits could (in theory) be applied to other classes. It's much easier to just leave them the way they are.
Wel, if you look at the SHattered Star Player's Guide, you will, indeed, see that all of the "of the Society" traits had the class restrictions removed.
Which helps in two cases:
Other classes with the same ability (Life Oracle channel, for example), and those planning on multi classing later (Fighter/Wizard/EK, for example).
Magical Knack doesn't require that your first level be as a spellcaster to take. Neither does Magical Talent, IIRC.
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"many secrets of the divine powers of the gods, and you have studied your god extensively" This assumes a lot. I know Oracles, who hate the gods because they've been cursed by them.
Oracles themselves, do not worship a god in return for their power. They are intrinsically divine, rather than having acquired their Divine powers through prayer or intercession of their specific deity. A god can't take an Oracle's power away, thus the ability to channel more of that god's power, is also not available to an oracle.
Therefore I would say, this is written correctly, "only for clerics."
That's my 2cp.
EDITED
Example: In Rahadoum a 10 year old boy finds an ancient temple of Iomeade and desecrates her temple. She curses him for his transgression. But because of the curse, he gains the powers of the divine, due to Iomeade's interference. He is now an Oracle. His divine powers, come from HIM not Iomeade and there is no amount of studying or lore that will allow him to channel more of Iomeade's power. Because he doesn't actually have access to Iomeade's power. Its his power and he's an atheist who now hates Iomeade more than ever. Some cleric's religion knowledge doesn't improve or make him more faithful, he hates clerics and their accursed gods and he sure is glad that his power is not Divinely granted. :D Carry on, my atheist Oracle, who hates the gods.
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"many secrets of the divine powers of the gods, and you have studied your god extensively" This assumes a lot. I know Oracles, who hate the gods because they've been cursed by them.
Oracles themselves, do not worship a god in return for their power. They are intrinsically divine, rather than having acquired their Divine powers through prayer or intercession of their specific deity. A god can't take an Oracle's power away, thus the ability to channel more of that god's power, is also not available to an oracle.
Therefore I would say, this is written correctly, "only for clerics."
That's my 2cp.
EDITED
Example: In Rahadoum a 10 year old boy finds an ancient temple of Iomeade and desecrates her temple. She curses him for his transgression. But because of the curse, he gains the powers of the divine, due to Iomeade's interference. He is now an Oracle. His divine powers, come from HIM not Iomeade and there is no amount of studying or lore that will allow him to channel more of Iomeade's power. Because he doesn't actually have access to Iomeade's power. Its his power and he's an atheist who now hates Iomeade more than ever. Some cleric's religion knowledge doesn't improve or make him more faithful, he hates clerics and their accursed gods and he sure is glad that his power is not Divinely granted. :D Carry on, my atheist Oracle, who hates the gods.
That's one way to go about it. As written though, Oracles can have it both ways. In Faiths and Philosophies the rules for worship are widened. You can pick and choose who you worship. Oracles can choose to follow a god or not to follow one. I would agree though for the purpose of this feat that you must have a god to take it.
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Oh, yeah. I was definitively not saying that you can't have a god.
Feel free to worship one or all. The thing I was trying to point out was that their power is not god dependent. Essentially, there is no link between a god and an Oracles powers, other than the initial spark that creates the Oracle.
So a curse could have come from Asmodeus and you might worship Iomeadae but your power does not require, either one to actually grant you your powers. So studying how to squeeze more power out of your god via channels simply isn't an option to an Oracle, since the power that the Oracle uses, doesn't actually come from a god.
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Oh, yeah. I was definitively not saying that you can't have a god.
Feel free to worship one or all. The thing I was trying to point out was that their power is not god dependent. Essentially, there is no link between a god and an Oracles powers, other than the initial spark that creates the Oracle.
So a curse could have come from Asmodeus and you might worship Iomeadae but your power does not require, either one to actually grant you your powers. So studying how to squeeze more power out of your god via channels simply isn't an option to an Oracle, since the power that the Oracle uses, doesn't actually come from a god.
Please do not confuse the fluff: "The vaults of the Grand Lodge in Absalom contain many secrets of the divine powers of the gods, and you have studied your deity extensively."
And the crunch: "You may channel energy one additional time per day."
It is a Faith trait. It allows you to channel energy one extra time per day. Nowhere does it require worship of a deity in the crunch of the trait.
Note that if you have no ability to channel energy, this trait is worthless. Same as the trait that gives you 1 extra 0-level spell slot, if you cannot cast spells.
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Is there a version of this trait in the Ultimate Campaign book? (which are now almost all legal for PFS play)
I don't believe so. However in looking I found this little gem:
Faith Traits (Ultimate Campaign page 54)
These traits rely upon conviction of spirit, perception, and religion, but these are not tied to the worship of a specific deity. You do not need a patron deity to gain a faith trait, as these traits can represent conviction in yourself just as easily as they can represent dedication to a deity.
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Oh, yeah. I was definitively not saying that you can't have a god.
Feel free to worship one or all. The thing I was trying to point out was that their power is not god dependent. Essentially, there is no link between a god and an Oracles powers, other than the initial spark that creates the Oracle.
So a curse could have come from Asmodeus and you might worship Iomeadae but your power does not require, either one to actually grant you your powers. So studying how to squeeze more power out of your god via channels simply isn't an option to an Oracle, since the power that the Oracle uses, doesn't actually come from a god.
Please do not confuse the fluff: "The vaults of the Grand Lodge in Absalom contain many secrets of the divine powers of the gods, and you have studied your deity extensively."
And the crunch: "You may channel energy one additional time per day."
It is a Faith trait. It allows you to channel energy one extra time per day. Nowhere does it require worship of a deity in the crunch of the trait.
Note that if you have no ability to channel energy, this trait is worthless. Same as the trait that gives you 1 extra 0-level spell slot, if you cannot cast spells.
You have to read the fluff sometimes to figure out how to work the thing.
It makes no sense for the trait to say that, "you have studied your deity extensively" and then not require you to have a deity.
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You have to read the fluff sometimes to figure out how to work the thing.
It makes no sense for the trait to say that, "you have studied your deity extensively" and then not require you to have a deity.
In fairness. . .
Faith Traits
These traits rely upon conviction of spirit, perception,
and religion, but are not directly tied to the worship of
a specific deity. You do not need a patron deity to gain
a Faith Trait, as these traits can represent conviction
in yourself or your philosophy just as easily as they can
represent dedication to a deity.
. . .while religion traits state:
Religion Traits
Religion traits are tied to specific deities. The following
religion traits reference the deities presented on page 43 of
the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.
So in conclusion, while most Faith traits do not require a deity to select, in PFS, this particular one does as it has a prereq of cleric, and all clerics in PFS must serve a deity.
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Oh, yeah. I was definitively not saying that you can't have a god.
Feel free to worship one or all. The thing I was trying to point out was that their power is not god dependent. Essentially, there is no link between a god and an Oracles powers, other than the initial spark that creates the Oracle.
So a curse could have come from Asmodeus and you might worship Iomeadae but your power does not require, either one to actually grant you your powers. So studying how to squeeze more power out of your god via channels simply isn't an option to an Oracle, since the power that the Oracle uses, doesn't actually come from a god.
Please do not confuse the fluff: "The vaults of the Grand Lodge in Absalom contain many secrets of the divine powers of the gods, and you have studied your deity extensively."
And the crunch: "You may channel energy one additional time per day."
It is a Faith trait. It allows you to channel energy one extra time per day. Nowhere does it require worship of a deity in the crunch of the trait.
Note that if you have no ability to channel energy, this trait is worthless. Same as the trait that gives you 1 extra 0-level spell slot, if you cannot cast spells.
You have to read the fluff sometimes to figure out how to work the thing.
It makes no sense for the trait to say that, "you have studied your deity extensively" and then not require you to have a deity.
Really, Andrew? Truly?
You gonna rule that you have to follow the fluff for Rice Runner in order to have Acrobatics as a class skill?
IIRC, there is a post from Mike or Mark, pre-John, that the fluff for the traits is just that, and the trait can be re-skinned without harm or foul.
"I have extensively studied the art and science of radiating <positive/negative> energy from my body, and have learned how to pace myself so as to gain the ability to do so one additional time more than any of my compatriots who never performed this extensive research into the whole concept of channeling energy."
Really, no need to tie it to a deity, especially since, if Life Oracles can do it, it is not power from a deity, but power from a different plane of existence...
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Oh, yeah. I was definitively not saying that you can't have a god.
Feel free to worship one or all. The thing I was trying to point out was that their power is not god dependent. Essentially, there is no link between a god and an Oracles powers, other than the initial spark that creates the Oracle.
So a curse could have come from Asmodeus and you might worship Iomeadae but your power does not require, either one to actually grant you your powers. So studying how to squeeze more power out of your god via channels simply isn't an option to an Oracle, since the power that the Oracle uses, doesn't actually come from a god.
Please do not confuse the fluff: "The vaults of the Grand Lodge in Absalom contain many secrets of the divine powers of the gods, and you have studied your deity extensively."
And the crunch: "You may channel energy one additional time per day."
It is a Faith trait. It allows you to channel energy one extra time per day. Nowhere does it require worship of a deity in the crunch of the trait.
Note that if you have no ability to channel energy, this trait is worthless. Same as the trait that gives you 1 extra 0-level spell slot, if you cannot cast spells.
You have to read the fluff sometimes to figure out how to work the thing.
It makes no sense for the trait to say that, "you have studied your deity extensively" and then not require you to have a deity.
Really, Andrew? Truly?
You gonna rule that you have to follow the fluff for Rice Runner in order to have Acrobatics as a class skill?
IIRC, there is a post from Mike or Mark, pre-John, that the fluff for the traits is just that, and the trait can be re-skinned without harm or foul.
"I have extensively studied the art and science of radiating <positive/negative> energy from my body, and have learned how to pace myself so as to gain the ability to do so one additional time more than any of my compatriots who never performed...
I believe it was Mark and I believe Jiggy has a link to it in his clarifications thread.
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Well, while you might argue that the APG wasn't out, and therefore making the Trait Cleric only didn't take that into account, I'm pretty sure that the playtest Orcale, and 100% sure that the Necromancer and the Paladin where out. So I'm pretty sure that Cleric only was intentional, and not allowing the Oracle and other classes to access it was completely on purpose.
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You have to read the fluff sometimes to figure out how to work the thing.
It makes no sense for the trait to say that, "you have studied your deity extensively" and then not require you to have a deity.
In fairness. . .
Faith Traits
These traits rely upon conviction of spirit, perception,
and religion, but are not directly tied to the worship of
a specific deity. You do not need a patron deity to gain
a Faith Trait, as these traits can represent conviction
in yourself or your philosophy just as easily as they can
represent dedication to a deity.. . .while religion traits state:
Religion Traits
Religion traits are tied to specific deities. The following
religion traits reference the deities presented on page 43 of
the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.So in conclusion, while most Faith traits do not require a deity to select, in PFS, this particular one does as it has a prereq of cleric, and all clerics in PFS must serve a deity.
Ah yes, thanks. I had forgotten there was a direct distinction between Faith and Religion traits.
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The fluff and the 'cleric only,' both clarify that its a cleric only trait. Oracles, not included. Inquisitors, not included. Paladins, not included. All other channelers, not included.
And the fluff says the same thing, so that there would be no confusion. You guys are free to rule it however you like at any table you run. But as for PFS, I'm rather sure its a pretty straightforward explanation. I'm not opposed to changing it to include other channelers, I'm simply reading the trait description and saying this is what it is, until its changed.
I'm with you, if you want a voice in support for changing it. But as it currently stands, it remains a 'cleric only' trait.
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Which makes sense, given that the concept of Character Traits originated in the APG.
Actually they originated in the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide, and were later published for free in the Traits Web Enhancement (which I believe predates the APG). That isn't available anymore as the traits have been rolled into the PRD since the APG came out.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Jon, do you mean "Second Darkness Player's Guide"?
The traits document still exists, because it has to. (It's part of the Core Assumptions for PFS, while the APG is not. A Society player isn't required to buy the APG in order to choose two traits and make a legal PFS character.)
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Which makes sense, given that the concept of Character Traits originated in the APG.Actually they originated in the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide, and were later published for free in the Traits Web Enhancement (which I believe predates the APG). That isn't available anymore as the traits have been rolled into the PRD since the APG came out.
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Actually...Which makes sense, given that the concept of Character Traits originated in the APG.Actually they originated in the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide, and were later published for free in the Traits Web Enhancement (which I believe predates the APG). That isn't available anymore as the traits have been rolled into the PRD since the APG came out.
Nice. They used to be accessible through http://paizo.com/traits, but that link doesn't work for me anymore. Good to see we can still snag them.
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It has nothing to do with breaking the game. There are many more reasons something may be banned. In the case of Campaign Traits, it's simply that the Pathfinder Society is its own Campaign. Most Campaign Traits thematically fit best with the campaign or Adventure Path that spawned them, and would at the least be confusing if allowed in Pathfinder Society.
"Who's Shalelu? I just want the +2 to Survival."
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*disclaimer: the following statement is not necessarily an official rule*I have pretty much always felt that Faction Traits are the Campaign Traits of PFS.
But it is actually. The Guide2PFS under the Traits section of Character Creation it says that the faction traits are the campaign traits for PFSOP.
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*disclaimer: the following statement is not necessarily an official rule*I have pretty much always felt that Faction Traits are the Campaign Traits of PFS.But it is actually. The Guide2PFS under the Traits section of Character Creation it says that the faction traits are the campaign traits for PFSOP.
I thought so but was too lazy to check so I covered my butt and added the disclaimer. Thanks for the verification.
