Dwarves with pony mounts?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

Looking at the Cavalier and just thinking about how a dwarf get's on the horse they take due to being a "medium" creature that's about 4ft tall.

Are there really no other options so a dwarf can take a mount that more appropriately sized?


The ACG "Undersized Mount" feat would allow you to ride one. Though technically not take one with that feature.

Scarab Sages

Camels are legal and thematically appropriate; They sit to be mounted and then stand when they start walking.

Sczarni

I concur with Bronnwynn.


A pony in PF is a miniature horse IRL.

Scarab Sages

Thanks. I had totally missed the undersized mount feat. That solves my issue.

Scarab Sages

Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Thanks. I had totally missed the undersized mount feat. That solves my issue.

Be careful with undersized mount. It allows you to ride a medium mount, but medium mounts tend to get encumbered quickly with a medium rider and gear. Especially if you are wearing heavy armor.


Also keep in mind that "horse" means everything from a cold-blooded welsh horse to a small icelandic horse.
Also RL ponies wouldn't probably be able to carry a dwarv (~160-190 lbs) with armor.

In my campaigns I let dwarves ride "horses" and just telling them that these horsed are simply a little bit smaller then usual, "...but as strong and stubborn as it's dwarven rider"


Tryn wrote:

Also keep in mind that "horse" means everything from a cold-blooded welsh horse to a small icelandic horse.

Also RL ponies wouldn't probably be able to carry a dwarv (~160-190 lbs) with armor.

In my campaigns I let dwarves ride "horses" and just telling them that these horsed are simply a little bit smaller then usual, "...but as strong and stubborn as it's dwarven rider"

RL some kinds of ponies and donkeys would have less of a problem with a heavy rider because their back is shorter and as such more stable. Big = strong = able to carry heavy riders is wrong. They would get a back-ache soon.

The "dwarf gets on the horse" problem is no problem in PF.


Umbranus wrote:
The "dwarf gets on the horse" problem is no problem in PF.

Agreed. By RAW, Dwarves would have the same ability to mount a horse as any Medium sized creature.


I used to houserule that Dwarves can ride mounts same size category as they are, but since there is a feat now it seems redundant.

Shadow Lodge

Bronnwynn wrote:
The ACG "Undersized Mount" feat would allow you to ride one. Though technically not take one with that feature.

Sadly the feat doesnt let you bypass the requirement of the mount class feature which specifically calls for a large mount for medium creature, strangely it works fine for classes with regular animal companions. There are some ways to fix this however, beast rider being one of them i think


Why not just assume you're riding a smaller, stockier type horse, like the ones bred in Mongolia? They're roughly a foot shorter than a Thoroughbred, for example, but are strong with a solid endurance.


Last I checked the core Rulebook, it says ponies are already suitable mounts of dwarves.

Scarab Sages

Azten wrote:
Last I checked the core Rulebook, it says ponies are already suitable mounts of dwarves.

Very true. Thinking of Cavalier or Nature oracle, which specify a mount selection based on size of character. You think the CRB note on ponies would override this?

That undersized mount thing is funny. Says they might not be able to lift the character...4 legs. The rules are very forgiving for creatures lifting things with 4 legs. Double normal carry weight, I think.

Scarab Sages

Murdock Mudeater wrote:


That undersized mount thing is funny. Says they might not be able to lift the character...4 legs. The rules are very forgiving for creatures lifting things with 4 legs. Double normal carry weight, I think.

Not quite.

Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Multiply the values corresponding to the creature's Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine ×1/4, Diminutive ×1/2, Tiny ×3/4, Small ×1, Medium ×1-1/2, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12, Colossal ×24.

So a Medium Mount can only carry 1.5 it's normal value its str. If you give it Barding, your Weight, and your gear, it adds up fast.

Scarab Sages

For example, here are the stats for a pony companion:

prd wrote:

Pony

Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack 2 hooves (1d3); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 4; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

4th-Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2; Special Qualities combat trained (see the Handle Animal skill).

With Str 13, normal carry capacity is

Light: 50 lbs. or less Medium: 51–100 lbs. Heavy: 101–150 lbs.

Quadraped only make the final numbers

Light: 75 lbs. or less Medium: 76–150 lbs. Heavy: 151–225 lbs.

There is no way a Dwarf in heavy armor doesn't weigh more than 225 pounds.

Scarab Sages

Your doing 1st level stuff. The characters shouldn't be able to afford heavy armor at 1st level. Maybe with traits.

Anyway, building a character for 10th level. Decided against heavy armor because I can't sleep in it, it really doesn't add much needed AC (only 3 ac more), and it's heavy (weight). Character is using a tower shield, so weight is a factor. Looks like 164 - 262lbs is base weight range for dwarves (I haven't rolled yet). I'm carrying about 100lbs of gear, so 264 - 362lbs of carry weight.

Mount wise, I'm looking at +3 STR for animal companion Str/dex increases, then another +2 STr for the 4th level advancement, and another free 2 ability points to spend on whatever. So, the pony can have up to 20 strength. Light load is 133 normally, 199.5lb a light load on a 4-legged medium creature. Should be 399lbs for a medium load (max) and 900lbs for heavy load (max).

As for barding, the plan is more directed at transportation, not combat, so probably light barding. I think I'll use Wooden armor, which is light armor (with no swim check penalty). As a medium non-human 1x weight multiplier. So 25 lbs.

387lbs, assuming I'm the fattest dwarf you can find. I still have 12 lbs for additional gear without becoming a heavy load. Was wrong about double, but 4 legs is still very forgiving.


Ask the GM if he allows the pack mule feat (3pp) for mounts. Adds 4 strength for carrying purposes.

Scarab Sages

Umbranus wrote:
Ask the GM if he allows the pack mule feat (3pp) for mounts. Adds 4 strength for carrying purposes.

Saw that one, very nifty. Amazed there aren't more feats for altering carry weight. Magic items, certainly, but just that feat.


Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Umbranus wrote:
Ask the GM if he allows the pack mule feat (3pp) for mounts. Adds 4 strength for carrying purposes.
Saw that one, very nifty. Amazed there aren't more feats for altering carry weight. Magic items, certainly, but just that feat.

There is a trait that does half what this feat does. Muscle of the society.

Scarab Sages

Umbranus wrote:
There is a trait that does half what this feat does. Muscle of the society.

Thank you. That is very awesome. Though, can mounts have traits? I suppose a feat to add traits is a thing, but do they get the normal trait access?

Sczarni

NPCs cannot acquire Traits without the Additional Traits feat.

Scarab Sages

Nefreet wrote:
NPCs cannot acquire Traits without the Additional Traits feat.

Thanks.

Then additional traits really does add traits to NPCs?

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