Alarm over Disarm

[Pipquin Goldtufts]

Ranged Disarm

Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Deadly Aim, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit(s): As a full-round action, you can attempt to perform a disarm combat maneuver with any ranged weapon at a -2 penalty. Add your Dexterity modifier to your CMB in place of your Strength modifier and apply range penalties to your combat maneuver check, doubling the penalties from range increments. If your target is more than 30 feet away, you take an additional -2 penalty. If the disarm attempt is successful, the target also takes damage as if you had made a successful attack with that weapon. You cannot be disarmed by failing this disarm attempt

Situation, a 16th level medium-sized fighter targets a combatant wielding a greatsword, which has an armor class of 35 and a CMD of 33. The 16th level medium-sized fighter attempts to disarm him, as a full round action he makes a single attack roll with his longbow; is this calculation correct:

BAB +16
DEX +5
Weapon Training (Bows) +3
Greater Weapon Focus (Longbow) +2
Composite Longbow +2
Within 30 feet -2
Deadly Aim -4

1d20+22, a roll of 11 or more exceeds the CMD (33) which would disarm the opponent and also inflict arrow damage.

Thoughts?

[darth_gator]

Pipquin Goldtufts wrote:

Ranged Disarm

Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Deadly Aim, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit(s): As a full-round action, you can attempt to perform a disarm combat maneuver with any ranged weapon at a -2 penalty. Add your Dexterity modifier to your CMB in place of your Strength modifier and apply range penalties to your combat maneuver check, doubling the penalties from range increments. If your target is more than 30 feet away, you take an additional -2 penalty. If the disarm attempt is successful, the target also takes damage as if you had made a successful attack with that weapon. You cannot be disarmed by failing this disarm attempt

Situation, a 16th level medium-sized fighter targets a combatant wielding a greatsword, which has an armor class of 35 and a CMD of 33. The 16th level medium-sized fighter attempts to disarm him, as a full round action he makes a single attack roll with his longbow; is this calculation correct:

BAB +16
DEX +5
Weapon Training (Bows) +3
Greater Weapon Focus (Longbow) +2
Composite Longbow +2
Within 30 feet -2
Deadly Aim -4

1d20+22, a roll of 11 or more exceeds the CMD (33) which would disarm the opponent and also inflict arrow damage.

Thoughts?

The maths check out. I see no reason that wouldn't work; unless Deadly Aim isn't usable with an action that requires a full round action. I don't see that as the case, though.

[Pipquin Goldtufts]

darth_gator wrote:

Pipquin Goldtufts wrote:

Ranged Disarm

Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Deadly Aim, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit(s): As a full-round action, you can attempt to perform a disarm combat maneuver with any ranged weapon at a -2 penalty. Add your Dexterity modifier to your CMB in place of your Strength modifier and apply range penalties to your combat maneuver check, doubling the penalties from range increments. If your target is more than 30 feet away, you take an additional -2 penalty. If the disarm attempt is successful, the target also takes damage as if you had made a successful attack with that weapon. You cannot be disarmed by failing this disarm attempt

Situation, a 16th level medium-sized fighter targets a combatant wielding a greatsword, which has an armor class of 35 and a CMD of 33. The 16th level medium-sized fighter attempts to disarm him, as a full round action he makes a single attack roll with his longbow; is this calculation correct:

BAB +16
DEX +5
Weapon Training (Bows) +3
Greater Weapon Focus (Longbow) +2
Composite Longbow +2
Within 30 feet -2
Deadly Aim -4

1d20+22, a roll of 11 or more exceeds the CMD (33) which would disarm the opponent and also inflict arrow damage.

Thoughts?

The maths check out. I see no reason that wouldn't work; unless Deadly Aim isn't usable with an action that requires a full round action. I don't see that as the case, though.

Thanks, I always have issues calculating those CMB/CMD checks. Much appreciated.

[Caderyn]

First your Deadly Aim Calculation is wrong Deadly Aim is -5 at BaB 16 as it goes -1 at BAB 1, -2 at BAB 4, - 3 at BAB 8, -4 at BAB 12, - 5 at BAB 16 and -6 at BAB 20

Second you did not include Point Blank Shot (which would actually give you +1 to hit and Damage)

Third you have not taken either Improved or Greater disarm which would still apply to the check even with a ranged weapon.

For Example Fighter Ranged stats you should have

BAB + 16
DX +5 (24 DX is basically Mandatory at this level so this should be +8)
(Get Improved and Greater Disarm for + 4)
Weapon Training +3 (Get Gloves of Dueling for another +2)
GWF + 2
Weapon +2 (Why is your Weapon only +2? either have the Cleric GMW it up to +5 using Bead of Karma, or buy a higher bonus)
-5 Deadly Aim
+1 Point Blank
-2 within 30 feet

Total +22, could be (+34 with the listed items above and thus auto pass)

Optimisation rant, ignore if needed:

The question would be why someone who is against a level 16 fighter has a CMD of only 33, CMD's at your level should be in the low 40's to 50's

Also your Current attack chain would leave alot to be desired, you would be +22 with your primaries?

Your Primaries as a fighter at level 16 should be much higher at +30 with both Rapid shot and deadly aim on, This makes the Disarm actually much less effective as you are talking 1d8+30 damage amd disarming them vs +30(2 Arrows)/+30 (Rapid) /+30 Haste from boots of speed) /+25 / +20/ +15 against the same target for 1d8 + 30 each arrow, vs AC 35 you should have 4 hits on average for a total of 4d8 + 120

[darth_gator]

Caderyn wrote:

First your Deadly Aim Calculation is wrong Deadly Aim is -5 at BaB 16 as it goes -1 at BAB 1, -2 at BAB 4, - 3 at BAB 8, -4 at BAB 12, - 5 at BAB 16 and -6 at BAB 20

Second you did not include Point Blank Shot (which would actually give you +1 to hit and Damage)

Dang it...I completely missed those. Sorry OP. Although the missing penalty and bonus in the original calculation DO still bring the total to +22. (I'll avoid the rest of the discussion regarding making it better...)

*sheepishly exits the room*

[wraithstrike]

Pipquin Goldtufts wrote:

Ranged Disarm

Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Deadly Aim, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit(s): As a full-round action, you can attempt to perform a disarm combat maneuver with any ranged weapon at a -2 penalty. Add your Dexterity modifier to your CMB in place of your Strength modifier and apply range penalties to your combat maneuver check, doubling the penalties from range increments. If your target is more than 30 feet away, you take an additional -2 penalty. If the disarm attempt is successful, the target also takes damage as if you had made a successful attack with that weapon. You cannot be disarmed by failing this disarm attempt

Situation, a 16th level medium-sized fighter targets a combatant wielding a greatsword, which has an armor class of 35 and a CMD of 33. The 16th level medium-sized fighter attempts to disarm him, as a full round action he makes a single attack roll with his longbow; is this calculation correct:

BAB +16
DEX +5
Weapon Training (Bows) +3
Greater Weapon Focus (Longbow) +2
Composite Longbow +2
Within 30 feet -2
Deadly Aim -4

1d20+22, a roll of 11 or more exceeds the CMD (33) which would disarm the opponent and also inflict arrow damage.

Thoughts?

You also do not get to disarm and do damage. Just like the melee version a CMB gives you an alternate thing to do instead of doing damage. Otherwise most people would just use CMB's so they can get a "2 for 1" deal.

[Devilkiller]

What's the "Alarm" here? Was that just thrown in to make the title rhyme, or do you have some actual concerns about Disarm? As combat maneuvers go it seems pretty weak.

[kinevon]

wraithstrike wrote:

Pipquin Goldtufts wrote:

Ranged Disarm

Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Deadly Aim, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit(s): As a full-round action, you can attempt to perform a disarm combat maneuver with any ranged weapon at a -2 penalty. Add your Dexterity modifier to your CMB in place of your Strength modifier and apply range penalties to your combat maneuver check, doubling the penalties from range increments. If your target is more than 30 feet away, you take an additional -2 penalty. If the disarm attempt is successful, the target also takes damage as if you had made a successful attack with that weapon. You cannot be disarmed by failing this disarm attempt

Situation, a 16th level medium-sized fighter targets a combatant wielding a greatsword, which has an armor class of 35 and a CMD of 33. The 16th level medium-sized fighter attempts to disarm him, as a full round action he makes a single attack roll with his longbow; is this calculation correct:

BAB +16
DEX +5
Weapon Training (Bows) +3
Greater Weapon Focus (Longbow) +2
Composite Longbow +2
Within 30 feet -2
Deadly Aim -4

1d20+22, a roll of 11 or more exceeds the CMD (33) which would disarm the opponent and also inflict arrow damage.

Thoughts?

You also do not get to disarm and do damage. Just like the melee version a CMB gives you an alternate thing to do instead of doing damage. Otherwise most people would just use CMB's so they can get a "2 for 1" deal.

Actually, this feat, if D20PFSRD has it correct, does, indeed, also do damage on a successful disarm attempt. Bolded the relevant text, above.

[wraithstrike]

kinevon wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

Pipquin Goldtufts wrote:

Ranged Disarm

Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Deadly Aim, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit(s): As a full-round action, you can attempt to perform a disarm combat maneuver with any ranged weapon at a -2 penalty. Add your Dexterity modifier to your CMB in place of your Strength modifier and apply range penalties to your combat maneuver check, doubling the penalties from range increments. If your target is more than 30 feet away, you take an additional -2 penalty. If the disarm attempt is successful, the target also takes damage as if you had made a successful attack with that weapon. You cannot be disarmed by failing this disarm attempt

Situation, a 16th level medium-sized fighter targets a combatant wielding a greatsword, which has an armor class of 35 and a CMD of 33. The 16th level medium-sized fighter attempts to disarm him, as a full round action he makes a single attack roll with his longbow; is this calculation correct:

BAB +16
DEX +5
Weapon Training (Bows) +3
Greater Weapon Focus (Longbow) +2
Composite Longbow +2
Within 30 feet -2
Deadly Aim -4

1d20+22, a roll of 11 or more exceeds the CMD (33) which would disarm the opponent and also inflict arrow damage.

Thoughts?

You also do not get to disarm and do damage. Just like the melee version a CMB gives you an alternate thing to do instead of doing damage. Otherwise most people would just use CMB's so they can get a "2 for 1" deal.

Actually, this feat, if D20PFSRD has it correct, does, indeed, also do damage on a successful disarm attempt. Bolded the relevant text, above.

I made one of these before and still missed that text. I will assume d20 is correct. <facepalm>

edit: I did not know it was a feat. I thought it was the ability of the ranged fighter archetype that was being discussed.

edit2: It is a full round action meaning you only get one attack. You are better off just using a full attack to try to kill the creature unless you are taking prisoners.

[Pipquin Goldtufts]

Thanks all. How about this one, does this also look correct?

A 16th level medium-sized fighter is using the following feats combat expertise, improved disarm, greater disarm and power attack, with his +2 halberd his attack bonuses are determined as:

+24/+19/+14/+9 melee (2 HND): +2 Halberd (1d10+37/19-20/x2)

Am I calculating his CMB correctly as:

+16 BAB
+9 Strength bonus
+3 weapon training: pole arms
+2 weapon enchantment
+2 greater weapon focus
+2 improved disarm
+2 greater disarm
-5 combat expertise
-5 power attack

+26/+21/+16/+11

Here’s the question, said fighter is flanked by two barbarians and uses a full round action to try and injure and disarm these targets, his intent is to attack/disarm/attack/disarm them.

Are his rolls:

First target.
1. +24 melee, if hits inflicts normal damage followed by
2. +21 disarm attempt, success exceeds CMD, target is disarmed and weapon hurled 15’ away (greater disarm)

Second target.
3. +14 melee, if hits inflicts normal damage followed by
4. +11 disarm attempt, success exceeds CMD target is disarmed and weapon hurled 15’ away (greater disarm)

[zza ni]

if your main goal is to disarm. you don't have to use the deadly aim in this shot (it is a needed to gain the feat. not have to be used with it).

totaling your attack roll at +26

[Pizza Lord]

It's also possible that the line 'the target also takes damage' could refer to the weapon or object that's being disarmed, rather than the wielder of the target.

So instead of picturing it as your disarm attempt knocking the the targeted object from its owner's hand and then 'blowing through' to the creature, it could read as striking the weapon and damaging it. So that would still be a possible benefit to using the ability, even if the wielder of your 'target' had weapon cords or a locking gauntlet, though I believe ranged attacks also only do half damage to objects (I might be misremembering.)

I admit that's just an optional read and, being the Rules section I'd have to point out that Disarm itself typically uses 'target' to mean 'the creature whose weapon you're targeting' and also since a typical disarm, such as a sword slamming into a sword doesn't appear to damage either object, but it would seem possible to make that argument if you feel the ability seems too overpowered as a free disarm/damage maneuver.

There's always a chance that the writer of that ability didn't double-check their wording and weirder things have been 'clarified' before.

[_Ozy_]

Nah, the target is the creature you are making the CMB roll against, the creature. The fact that you also do damage indicates that the 'disarm' fluff likely involves actually shooting the targets hand(s) that are holding the weapon.