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I've had this character idea for a half-orc shaman but I could never figure out how to get it to work as a front line combatant. Until I saw the mammoth spirit. Here's the build I've got so far.
Half-orc Shaman
Ability Scores
STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 08
WIS: 16 (+2 racial bonus; total 18)
CHA: 10
Traits
Fate's Favored
???
Build progression
1: Martial weapon proficiency (earth breaker), orisons, spirit (mammoth), spirit animal (goat), spirit magic
2: Hex (healing)
3: Weapon focus (earth breaker)
4: Hex (witch hex - flight), wandering spirit (battle), +1 strength
5: Toughness
6: Wandering hex (battle master)
7: Power attack
8: Hex (ward), greater spirit, +1 strength
9: Cleave
10: Hex (evil eye)
11: Great cleave
12: Hex (chant), greater wandering spirit, +1 wisdom
13: ???
14: Wandering hex 2 (hampering hex)
15: ???
16: Hex (fury), true spirit (megaloceros animal companion), +1 strength
17: ???
18: Hex (shapeshift)
19: ???
20: Hex (charm), manifestation, true wandering spirit, +1 strength
Any help is greatly appreciated.
So either the build I have so far is okay (not likely), no one cares enough about shamans (let alone one focused on going against type) to know how and/or be inclined to help, or I wasn't clear enough what aspect of the build I wanted help with.
If it is that last one then I can at least rectify it with this post. I'm looking for help with all aspects of this build to make the best melee shaman I can. This includes things such as feat selection, stat arrangement, what cleric spells to add to my list with the alternate fcb, hexes, etc. My Pathfinder/3.5 optimization skills are rusty and this is a relatively new class.
The only aspects I'm not particularly willing to budge on are 1: must use a bludgeoning weapon, while the falchion (which I'm proficient in for being a half-orc) is generally better with its 18-20 critical threat range; I like the flavour of bludgeoning weapons though I'm not married specifically to the earth breaker, it just seemed like the best martial two-handed bludgeoning weapon. 2: at least 16 levels of the shaman class if not 20, I want to upgrade my familiar from a goat to a megaloceros animal companion; the extra enhancement bonus to strength is just gravy, though it does drop me from a max strength of 26 to 24 (24 to 22 in standard point-buy).
PF Cleave is a great level 1 feat but terrible by level 9. Try Lunge instead.
A spellcaster can find a use for a crafting feat in most games, even if they're melee goons.
Quicken Spell is something you really, really want. Maybe get that at level 9, Lunge at level 11.
Useful cleric spells include Divine Favor, Blessing of Fervor, and Bloodsworn Retribution (from dwarves of golarion but not noted as dwarf-only).
Okay, I'll rethink going for the cleave feat chain. Quicken spell, I can't believe I forgot about that, yeah getting divine favor up as a swift action is definitely worth it. For other cleric spells should I bother with righteous might or just stick with spontaneous enlarge person? Also, any suggestions for a good trait to go alongside fate's favored?
I made a melee shaman using the Hair hex and a monk dip to get a warrior that needed wis dex, con and wis. By level 6 ish it seems to be functional.
Yours looks like it Can work from level 1:)
Blessing of Fervor buffs your spirit animal and the rest of the party as well as you; it would normally be my first standard action spent buffing. Righteous Might would only kick in if I had a couple of rounds to spend buffing, or maybe if I was alone, or at 17th level+ when it could be quickened. You might pick it with the FCB but only actually prepare it in situations where you have a plan to use it.
For a trait you might consider heirloom weapon (earthbreaker) to free up a feat. Maybe get Toughness or Power Attack early and then get Craft Magic Arms & Armor in its place.
Now I'm unsure whether to stick with the earth breaker or go with a lucerne hammer. On the one hand is 2d6 x3 crit on the other is 1d12 x2 crit with reach. Average-damage-wise the earth breaker wins by half a point. In terms of area control however, the lucerne hammer gets the prize no contest. Besides the mechanical considerations, there is the consideration of "which would fit my character's personality the best?" For me that seems to be leaning towards the earth breaker. I just can't see the character hiding behind reach. He'd probably say something along the lines of "that's a coward's trick!"
The long casting time (and smaller buffs) of enlarge person compared to righteous might is why I even considered righteous might in the first place. However, I have since noticed that enlarge person has a duration of 1 minute per caster level as opposed to the 1 round per caster level of righteous might. As long as the character isn't stuck in a cramped area it would be possible to pre-buff with enlarge person and reasonably expect it to apply in most fights. Anyway avr, your math on when it would be possible to quicken is slightly off. I would, assuming I go for it now, be able to quicken righteous might starting at 15th level (4th level spell + 4 increased spell slot level = 8th level spell slot).
RE: heirloom weapon I sort of feel it's a waste of a trait "slot" in that it only gives you proficiency with that specific item not all items of the same type, and it isn't even masterwork by default so you can't enchant it to have it stay up to par. Having said that, I can't think of any really appropriate traits.
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If you're already going Half-Orc, methinks you'd be best off just utilizing one of their natural proficiencies: Falchion, Greataxe, Flail, Heavy Flail, Whip, or Longsword, depending on your racial trait. The Falchion's 18-20 crit range MORE than makes up for its 2d4 damage dice, since all your bonuses get multiplied on a crit.
Also, when it comes to hexes, Healing is pretty lackluster. Something I've been finding would be very useful for my shaman is Fortune + Chant - when you need to support your party out of combat, giving them two rolls for anything they need to do is a great way to do it.
One trait you might consider is Seeker - it makes Perception a class skill, which is great for using your high Wis.
EDIT: If this is a combat Shaman, you definitely want your biggest bonus to be to Strength. Starting with 18 Strength will do you much, much, much more good than starting with 18 Wis. I would also consider taking Power Attack at 3 - it's a pretty significant boost to damage.
Masterwork Transformation makes your heirloom enchantable. You should be able to find someone to cast it for you, no need to use a favored class bonus on the spell. And I'd already suggested getting the feat to enchant it; it can sometimes be hard to find obscure weapons with exactly the magic properties you want.
If you just don't like heirloom weapon it's hard to argue with a +2 inititative bonus as an effective trait.
Righteous Might is 5th level. Maybe you were thinking of Divine Power? Anyway, as a 5th level spell it's competing for spell slots with quickened 1st level spells, True Seeing, Stoneskin, and whatever other 5th level spells take your fancy.
Also, if your spirit animal (basically a familiar) is allowed to take the Valet Familiar archetype it gets to share your teamwork feats. One very good one to take whould be Improved Share Spell.
Masterwork transformation? *looks up spell, jaw drops* Okay, that makes heirloom weapon a lot better.
Huh, I could have sworn righteous might was a 4th level spell with divine power being 5th. Oh well, I concede that you were right.
If healing really isn't that good what else should I do as far as hexes are concerned? Also, what would be a good order to take the hexes in?
As to switching strength and wisdom, would it be better to use a magic item to gain access to my highest spell slots, spend all my normal stat increases on wisdom, or combine the above approaches?
For weapons I'm still not really sold on anything yet. I mean, I can change the character concept to better work with other weapons, though I do have a distinct preference for bludgeoning weapons. Also, I'm sick of seeing every melee character gravitate to the 18-20/x2 weapons.
I think I'm going to put this idea on the back burner and rethink what it is I want with a melee Shaman. Besides that, at the moment there doesn't seem to be quite enough to support a melee build even with the awesomeness that is Mammoth spirit.
...there doesn't seem to be quite enough to support a melee build even with the awesomeness that is Mammoth spirit.
Be Samsaran. Add Divine Favor (1st), Blessing of Fervor (4th), Righteous Might (5th), Greater Forbid Action (5th). Enjoy +2 WIS, +2 INT, cry about -2 CON.
Trait Fate's Favored.
Play like Reach Cleric.
Okay, so coming back to this here's the bare bones outline for the build I've got so far.
Alternate Racial Traits: Sacred Tattoo, Shaman's Apprentice
Class: Shaman
Traits: Fate's Favored (faith), Quick Learner (equipment)
Strength: 18
Dexterity: 10
Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 8
Wisdom: 14
Charisma: 12
Level Progression
1: Improved Initiative, Spirit (mammoth), Spirit Animal (goat)
2: Hex ()
3: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (meteor hammer)
4: +1 Wisdom, Hex (witch hex: flight), Wandering Spirit (battle)
5: Weapon Focus (meteor hammer)
6: Wandering Hex I (battle master)
7:
8: +1 Wisdom, Hex ()
9:
10: Hex ()
11:
12: +1 Wisdom, Hex ()
13:
14: Wandering hex II (hampering hex)
15:
16: +1 Wisdom, Hex (), true spirit (megaloceros animal companion)
17:
18: Hex ()
19:
20: +1 Wisdom, Hex ()
I went with the meteor hammer as a way for my character to, in a sense, "mimic" the powerful trunk of a mammoth. I kind of want to go with a mammoth animal companion for my true spirit ability to better match the new flavour of my character, but I can't find a good familiar that would make sense to devolve into a mammoth.
Furthermore, I'm unsure whether or not I should drop Con to 12 so I can raise Dex to 13 in order to pick up Combat Reflexes. If I do it becomes harder to justify spending FCBs on extra skill ranks, but if I don't I'm worried I won't have enough AoO to provide a meaningful presence on the battlefield. For skills I was thinking Craft (Alchemy), Heal, Knowledge (Nature), and Spellcraft. That is if I go with my current plan to pump my skills instead of HP.
I also don't know what hexes (and at which levels) to pick other than flight because of how useful it is, but I'm open to suggestions about other witch hex options that might fit my character concept better. My wandering hexes are pretty easy picks as long as I always go with Battle for my wandering spirit.
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Frankly, 16 str and 14 dex would serve you better then 18 str and 10 dex, so you can pick up combat reflexes. I feel flight hex is a waste of time, as shamans get airwalk later. Not sure what hex you would like to take instead. You can use heirloom weapon trait to give yourself meteor hammer profeciency for that specific weapon, though I feel its no shame to use a longspear, afterall, mammoths fought with their tusks as well. I dont really feel you need charisma for mammoth shaman, the ability is based on fort save, so not too likely it will land either
Actually, Just a Mort, I can't use heirloom weapon as the meteor hammer is an exotic weapon and the heirloom weapon trait only works with simple and martial weapons. Yes the longspear would work, but it just isn't as cool as a meteor hammer.
Also, Shamans don't get Airwalk (by default), though they do get Windwalk, maybe that's what you were thinking of? I was thinking the flight hex would be useful against flying enemies that like to stay out of range in combat. That and the infinite Feather Fall means I pretty much never take falling damage.
The only reason my Shaman has any points in Charisma is so that I can get an extra use of the various abilities with 3 + Charisma modifier uses/rounds per day, but I could easily drop it to 10 and put the points into Dex.
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Flight is great for battle shamans - being able to fly around without taking a round to buff is excellent. What you really need is Power Attack - it accounts for a large minority of your melee damage. I would definitely take the weapon proficiency at 1 and Power Attack at 3 if I were you.
I would keep Strength at 17 or 18 if at all possible. Combat Reflexes is nice to have, but with Battle Master you don't need it; in most campaigns it's pretty rare to have enemies trigger more than 2 attacks of opportunity per turn.
You may want to consider Heavy Armor Proficiency, too.
Unfortunately Exotic Weapon Proficiency requires a +1 BAB, which I don't get until level 2. The soonest I can take the proficiency is level 3. That's why I've got the Quick Learner trait, it drops the non-proficiency penalty to -2 after the first attack I make with the weapon for as long as I hold it. I suppose I could delay Weapon Focus to level 7 and take Power Attack at 5.
Come to think of it, I could use a greataxe (hooray for half-orc racial proficiencies) for my first two levels (relegating it to a back-up weapon later) and then start using the meteor hammer in earnest at level 3. This would then free up a trait slot for Reactionary, possibly negating the need for Improved Initiative, letting me get Power Attack at first level. Hmm... decisions, decisions.
...there doesn't seem to be quite enough to support a melee build even with the awesomeness that is Mammoth spirit.Be Samsaran. Add Divine Favor (1st), Blessing of Fervor (4th), Righteous Might (5th), Greater Forbid Action (5th). Enjoy +2 WIS, +2 INT, cry about -2 CON.
Trait Fate's Favored.
Play like Reach Cleric.
Or be a human, a Versatile one pehaps, and use the amazing favored class option.
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Half orc can add human fcb for cleric spells.Flight hex still requires a standard action to use, so you're still spending a standard action for fly at min/lvl. Dc 15 hover check for full attacks while in the air. That heavy armor and lack of dex is going to make flying a pain too. If you use divine power, your large size makes flying even more painful. It still can be done though. How about a lucene hammer for martial wep?
Or be a human, a Versatile one pehaps, and use the amazing favored class option.
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Do both!
Human or Half-Elf or Half-Orc with that FCB use Racial Heritage to poach Samsaran Mystic Past Life.
Legal to do at third level? Neither Feat nor MPL say first level only. (Yes, number added set.)
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Do both!
Human or Half-Elf or Half-Orc with that FCB use Racial Heritage to poach Samsaran Mystic Past Life.
Legal to do at third level? Neither Feat nor MPL say first level only. (Yes, number added set.)
Mystic Past Life is an alternate racial feature...Racial Heritage neither gives it to you, nor lets you take it.
I thought that even tho the human FCB lets you add cleric spells to your spells known, but because there's this weird FAQ ruling ( that I can't find atm) that says you can't use spells known if their aren't on your actual spell list you still couldn't use the cleric spells unless said spells were added by a feature ( which the Human FCB doesn't count as). Or did a FAQ saying that you could come out?
Assuming the rules work is the first order of the Day.
And also the human FCB allow you to ad the spells to your list.
My next healer type is going to be a longbow wielding battle shaman.
This trait grants me the prof. I realize you're focused on a melee mammoth, but if you change your mind to ranged, this is a good way to get there.
If the flight hex does take a standard action to activate its value drops significantly as Feather Fall gets broken to uselessness and flight in combat becomes impractical. Would rather take the cauldron hex at that point so I can get Brew Potion for free along with a +4 bonus to Craft (Alchemy).
For a trait you might consider heirloom weapon (earthbreaker) to free up a feat. Maybe get Toughness or Power Attack early and then get Craft Magic Arms & Armor in its place.
I would go with Shoanti tattoo for best bang for buck. +1 to save vs fear and proficiency with earthbreakers, klars and bolas. Also with Ancestral arms/Heirloom Weapon or whatever it is, if is someone destroys or steals your weapon, you lose your proficiency.
On a side note there are ways to upgrade an heirloom weapon so that it can be masterworked and eventually enchanted. But that's a lot of frigging around in my opinion over a proficiency...
Flight is great for battle shamans - being able to fly around without taking a round to buff is excellent. What you really need is Power Attack - it accounts for a large minority of your melee damage. I would definitely take the weapon proficiency at 1 and Power Attack at 3 if I were you.
I would keep Strength at 17 or 18 if at all possible. Combat Reflexes is nice to have, but with Battle Master you don't need it; in most campaigns it's pretty rare to have enemies trigger more than 2 attacks of opportunity per turn.
You may want to consider Heavy Armor Proficiency, too.
I agree with this feedback too for a melee based shaman. If you tank DEX then I would spend the feat on Heavy Armor Proficiency.