So my players have asked me to GM a new campaign since the last one was completely awesome, and I'm planning on having them travel all around the planet through a long vanished Arcanist: Occultist's teleportation nexus.
The skinny: they find a teleportation sphere in a dungeon that is being worshiped by kobolds as an altar to the chromatic dragons. Turns out this dais mounted sphere is a teleporter and anything that touches it is teleported down the chain unless they know how to activate the sphere properly. One of the spheres is on a tower about a mile (roughly 2 KM) above the surface of Golarion's moon (not in the demon infested area) and the other is around 90 feet from the entrance of the ancient occultist's lunar underground mansion. So, at best, the PCs will have to spend 1 round exposed to the environment (space is absolute zero, real people pass out after 3 seconds due to the blood cycling oxygen out of the blood, radiation from the sun, .etc.) so what I am thinking is this:
2d6 cold damage/round
High Radiation High radiation level, Fort save 22, 2d4 Con drain immediately, 1d6 Str damage/day until saved.
Players must make fort saves to not fall unconscious after 3 rounds.
Radiation Damage
Radiation Level--Fort Save--Primary Effect--Secondary Effect
Low--------------13---------1 Con drain-----1 Str damage/day
Medium---------17---------1d4 Con drain---1d4 Str damage/day
High-------------22---------2d4 Con drain---1d6 Str damage/day
Severe---------30---------4d6 Con drain---2d6 Str damage/day
What do you guys think? How should I run this?
I guess it depends on how you want to play your world's moon.
In our world's moon, the temperature is not absolute zero. The ground can even be quite hot, if it is "daytime".
But more importantly is how temperature works in a vacuum. Fast freezing in space is a bit of a Hollywood myth, because while empty space is "cold", there is nothing like moisture or gas in the air to radiate the heat away from your body. The bigger danger of "space" is that there is a lack of outside pressure, which our bodies aren't well protected against. Think along the lines of explosive decompression.
Of course all of that aside, a fantasy moon can play by any rules you want it to.
I guess it depends on how you want to play your world's moon.
In our world's moon, the temperature is not absolute zero. The ground can even be quite hot, if it is "daytime".
But more importantly is how temperature works in a vacuum. Fast freezing in space is a bit of a Hollywood myth, because while empty space is "cold", there is nothing like moisture or gas in the air to radiate the heat away from your body. The bigger danger of "space" is that there is a lack of outside pressure, which our bodies aren't well protected against. Think along the lines of explosive decompression.
Of course all of that aside, a fantasy moon can play by any rules you want it to.
Space itself is considered absolute zero last I checked but this is mostly due there being nothing to touch and how heat actually transfers.
Current studies suggest that death from exposure to a hard vacuum would kill due to asphyxiation and subjects would pass out after 15 seconds or so.The human skin very effectively insulates the body from a hard vacuum. You would not explode, but all of the air in your lungs would be sucked out, or if you tried to hold in your breath your lungs could rupture. Luckily we haven't tested this on any humans yet, even if it has happened before.
Spacecraft are both burning and freezing in space constantly due to the sun and due to space.
The teleportation sphere is on the day surface of the moon. From this I am thinking that maybe the PCs would take
2d6 cold.
2d6 fire.
High Radiation High radiation level, Fort save 22, 2d4 Con drain immediately, 1d6 Str damage/day until saved.
Able to remain conscious for 15 seconds, then must make fort saves each round, per drowning, to not fall unconscious.
This is more thematic than lethal since the PCs are starting at level 7 instead of 1.
I'm in a hurry as I type, gotta go.
Heat does radiate away from the body in space in the form of light. We all glow in the infrared spectrum whereby we would rapidly lose heat in space. The water in the oil of our skin would boil, but since I skin is covered in tiny scales it doesn't go much deeper than that unless the subject has a cut.
That said, your entire body is technically open in several areas. The water in your eyes, ears, mouth, privates, and even pours begins to boil. Though, due to death by suffocation these do not kill you or even really hurt you. The body does go limp eventually even if your can breath.
Heat can travel 3 ways; conduction, convection and radiation. Convection and conduction both require a transfer media, such as air or water or something else in contact with the object that is transferring heat. In space, the vaccuum means that these first two are almost unavailable. The side of your object that's towards the sun will be receiving heat in the form of solar radiation. This is why materials such as gold foil with a high reflectivity are often used.
The other side will be losing heat to the 2.7K degree background of deep space via a similar mechanism.
As an upside, you'll weigh 1/6 normal and your carrying capacity will increase.
You should check out the old spell jammer series for I think it was 2nd E D&D not all moons are lifeless chunks of rock.
I don't think a "high" radiation level is appropriate at all. For reference, let's look at the radiation levels on earth's moon:
Annual dose on earth: 2.4 mSv
Annual dose on moon: 110 - 380 mSv (let's call it 250 mSv)
Now, the health effects of radiation exposure:
So for the purposes of developing cancer, one round (6 seconds) of exposure to lunar radiation levels would account for:
5.5 %/Sv * 250 mSv/year / 365 days/year / 24 hours/day / 60 minutes/hour / 10 rounds/minute = .00000026% chance of developing cancer
Granted, cancer is not the only threat radiation poses, but I think if we're talking about 2d4 Con drain that's pretty much cancer. The "high" radiation level might be appropriate somewhere like the surface of the sun, but not on the moon.
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Since the moon is made of green cheese, you have to be careful not to kick up a dust cloud of cheese spores. And watch out for the giant robotic rats that lurk behind every caldera.
Seriously, the atmosphere on the moon is whatever you want it to be. Maybe it's asphyxiating on the surface, but becomes breathable underground. Maybe the Ishtar worshipers have an extensive cavern complex.
Go with the flow and make it fun.
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If your player is on the moon, he'll probably suffocate before anything else happens. :-)
If his character is on the moon--yeah, what Wheldrake said.
Distant Worlds has a few rules pertaining to the hazards of interplanetary environments. It may be of use. There's also a Paizo module that takes the players to the moon, but it only covers the demon-infested area IIRC.
I'd go with environmental dangers as appropriate from the CRB.
Cold: Extreme cold (below –20° F) deals 1d6 points of lethal damage per minute (no save). In addition, a character must make a Fortitude save (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage.
Suffocation:A character who has no air to breathe can hold her breath for 2 rounds per point of Constitution. If a character takes a standard or full-round action, the remaining duration that the character can hold her breath is reduced by 1 round. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check in order to continue holding her breath. The check must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success.
When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates.
As far as radiation goes? Ignore it. I just assume magic healing fixes cancer too.
Instead of regular suffocation rules, you could treat space like the suffocation spell "sucking out the air" so you can't hold it in. Or a fort save to hold your air in.
The target can attempt to resist this spell's effects with a Fortitude save—if he succeeds, he is merely staggered for 1 round as he gasps for breath. If the target fails, he immediately begins to suffocate. On the target's next turn, he falls unconscious and is reduced to 0 hit points. One round later, the target drops to –1 hit points and is dying. One round after that, the target dies.
Space itself is considered absolute zero last I checked but this is mostly due there being nothing to touch and how heat actually transfers.
Not quite. Space is not absolute zero, it is close, but it is not absolute zero. The background radition of the universe keeps it above that, at the darkest blackest farthest part fo the universe its about 3 Kelvin. But for all intents and purposes it is close enough. You are however right about the next part. There are only 3 methods of transferring heat out of the body. Conduciton, convection, and radiation. Space is as near a perfect vacuum (though there are some stray hydrogen molecules surfing around) so there is very little to interact with. No gases, no liquid. The surface area of your body is mostly not in contact with anything, except for maybe your feet. So there is much to exchange hit with, except to emit it via radiation. Which is the slowest and weakest method of heat exchange. So before you worry about freezing....
Current studies suggest that death from exposure to a hard vacuum would kill due to asphyxiation and subjects would pass out after 15 seconds or so.
The human skin very effectively insulates the body from a hard vacuum. You would not explode, but all of the air in your lungs would be sucked out, or if you tried to hold in your breath your lungs could rupture. Luckily we haven't tested this on any humans yet, even if it has happened before.
Spacecraft are both burning and freezing in space constantly due to the sun and due to space.
You die from a lack of oxygen. Mostly because the lack of atmosphere actually forces the oxygen out of your blood, out through your lungs (in the reverse of their normal operation) and you start exhaling all of the oxygen you need to survive into space. You can't hold your breath against this. You have roughly 15 seconds of conciousness, not until death. Then it's basically the same as asphyxiation due to drowning. You can be saved, but every moment brings you closer to permanent brain damage and death.
The teleportation sphere is on the day surface of the moon. From this I am thinking that maybe the PCs would take
2d6 cold.
2d6 fire.
High Radiation High radiation level, Fort save 22, 2d4 Con drain immediately, 1d6 Str damage/day until saved.
Able to remain conscious for 15 seconds, then must make fort saves each round, per drowning, to not fall unconscious.
Honestly, there should be no energy type damage the body just isn't going to change temperature enough to be significantly hamred before something else will kill them.
I would suggest 15 seconds of conciousness, just make it 3 rounds. Each round they must save against high level radiation. The radiation should really probably just be lethal, but were talking Big Damn Heroes so...a little leeway.
So my players have asked me to GM a new campaign since the last one was completely awesome, and I'm planning on having them travel all around the planet through a long vanished Arcanist: Occultist's teleportation nexus.
The skinny: they find a teleportation sphere in a dungeon that is being worshiped by kobolds as an altar to the chromatic dragons. Turns out this dais mounted sphere is a teleporter and anything that touches it is teleported down the chain unless they know how to activate the sphere properly. One of the spheres is on a tower about a mile (roughly 2 KM) above the surface of Golarion's moon (not in the demon infested area) and the other is around 90 feet from the entrance of the ancient occultist's lunar underground mansion. So, at best, the PCs will have to spend 1 round exposed to the environment (space is absolute zero, real people pass out after 3 seconds due to the blood cycling oxygen out of the blood, radiation from the sun, .etc.) so what I am thinking is this:
2d6 cold damage/round
High Radiation High radiation level, Fort save 22, 2d4 Con drain immediately, 1d6 Str damage/day until saved.
Players must make fort saves to not fall unconscious after 3 rounds.What do you guys think? How should I run this?Radiation Damage
Radiation Level--Fort Save--Primary Effect--Secondary Effect
Low--------------13---------1 Con drain-----1 Str damage/day
Medium---------17---------1d4 Con drain---1d4 Str damage/day
High-------------22---------2d4 Con drain---1d6 Str damage/day
Severe---------30---------4d6 Con drain---2d6 Str damage/day
This is what happens if you're out in space without protective gear, actually.
This is what happens if you're out in space without protective gear, actually.So my players have asked me to GM a new campaign since the last one was completely awesome, and I'm planning on having them travel all around the planet through a long vanished Arcanist: Occultist's teleportation nexus.
The skinny: they find a teleportation sphere in a dungeon that is being worshiped by kobolds as an altar to the chromatic dragons. Turns out this dais mounted sphere is a teleporter and anything that touches it is teleported down the chain unless they know how to activate the sphere properly. One of the spheres is on a tower about a mile (roughly 2 KM) above the surface of Golarion's moon (not in the demon infested area) and the other is around 90 feet from the entrance of the ancient occultist's lunar underground mansion. So, at best, the PCs will have to spend 1 round exposed to the environment (space is absolute zero, real people pass out after 3 seconds due to the blood cycling oxygen out of the blood, radiation from the sun, .etc.) so what I am thinking is this:
2d6 cold damage/round
High Radiation High radiation level, Fort save 22, 2d4 Con drain immediately, 1d6 Str damage/day until saved.
Players must make fort saves to not fall unconscious after 3 rounds.What do you guys think? How should I run this?Radiation Damage
Radiation Level--Fort Save--Primary Effect--Secondary Effect
Low--------------13---------1 Con drain-----1 Str damage/day
Medium---------17---------1d4 Con drain---1d4 Str damage/day
High-------------22---------2d4 Con drain---1d6 Str damage/day
Severe---------30---------4d6 Con drain---2d6 Str damage/day
You wear a T-shirt featuring various cheeses and gesticulate wildly?
First, I would suggest you stop inserting real-world science into your fantasy roleplaying game, as others have also suggested. This is a game in which Dragons are real, the Gods actually work, and little wooden boys will cut you if you talk smack about their dad one more time. Science has no place here.
Second, since you've specifically mentioned Golarion in your posts, I would guess that you're using the published game world. In which case, you might want to check out the official rules supplements for Golarion that touch on the manners in which the non-Golarion worlds are handled. I just tried to get over to the pathfinder wiki site but it's apparently down... So I can't provide you with data on that in this post. But I believe that the Distant Worlds supplement in particular will have appropriate rules for non-Golarion environments.
Personally I would say that whatever the myths of the game world indicate about the other worlds (in this case, the moon) should have a grain of truth. If your myths say that the moon is peopled by anthropomorphic rabbits who make milk, then by golly, there ought to be some rabbit people up there, somewhere. And they have to breathe, right? So there must be air.
Remember: In a fantasy game, you don't "breathe the atmosphere" you breathe the air. You don't explosively decompress, you freeze. You don't suffer from scientific principles, you say a few words and turn a tiny ball of bat guano into a massive magical fireball.
If you're using the RAW for Golarion, then use the supplements for Golarion and let them be your guide. Eschew real world science, you've got magic.
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This is what happens if you're out in space without protective gear, actually.
Extremely interesting, actually.
Ok, what I'm thinking is this:Radiation level: low (mimics effect of terrible sunburn, isn't a problem since there is plenty of food in the lunar mansion and plenty of skeletal servants to tend to the PCs.)
Save: Fort 13 (This shouldn't be a problem for level 7 characters.)
Failure: 1 con damage, 1 str damage until saved against.
Players must make fort saves to not fall unconscious after 3 rounds.
Space Suffocation effect: (Also isn't a problem, since the PCs can just touch the orb again.)
Per suffocation spell treated as auto-failure, but the character is able to act for 3 rounds until needing to make saves to fall unconscious.
No other damages.
More or less this is to give the PCs the sensation that they are on a strange and alien world. A cartography or geography check while looking at Golarion would inform the character that the planet above them is the planet.
I would suggest you stop inserting real-world science into your fantasy roleplaying game
Oh, now what fun is that? We're playing Shadowrun right now and it is going into orbit sooner or later. I'd think they'd be disappointed if things weren't just a little realistic.
Though, I'm waiting to find out how the party will react to automatically resetting summon monster traps making the majority of the encounters they face in dungeons while using an objective based system of XP and gold.
=^_^=
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I refuse to let any players that are on the moon join my games. The lag time and low bandwidth just makes for an unsatisfying experience.
I refuse to let any players that are on the moon join my games. The lag time and low bandwidth just makes for an unsatisfying experience.
Dude, the last time I let a player on the moon into one of my games he spoke in Lunaneese or something. All Yak Yak and stuff. Plus, his connection was terrible, disconnects galore!
I would suggest you stop inserting real-world science into your fantasy roleplaying gameOh, now what fun is that? We're playing Shadowrun right now and it is going into orbit sooner or later. I'd think they'd be disappointed if things weren't just a little realistic.
Though, I'm waiting to find out how the party will react to automatically resetting summon monster traps making the majority of the encounters they face in dungeons while using an objective based system of XP and gold.
=^_^=
Shadowrun is based in the real world, our world, and has its basis in a world grounded in actual physics - which are then disrupted in certain ways by the return of magic. Going into orbit in Shadowrun requires you to overcome physics and get off the planet by way of science and technology. Big freaking rockets or super-engineered elevators.
It's not Golarion, where the Gods work, we can reattach your freakin' limbs, return you to life from a pile of rotten bones, and the like. To get off of the planet in Pathfinder, you only need to fly high enough. Take enough air with you or find a way to magically turn off your need to breathe, and you can fly to the freaking moon if your world's cosmology says you can. Heck, there doesn't even need to be an air requirement if your cosmology says that there is no such thing as "space" or "vacuum."
Realism has its place in games where realism is a part of the mythos. Shadowrun. Call Of Cthulhu. Delta Green. Chill. Supernatural. Blah Blah Blah Yakkity Shmakkity. But the typical fantasy RPG isn't one of those places, in my view. If they were, then fireballs wouldn't work, because flinging a ball of bat poo and saying a word doesn't result in a fireball. Rubbing a little bit of wool against a brass rod doesn't unleash one point twenty one gigawatts at your foes. I mean, I know we can go back and forth about this all day, so let me say: You're the GM, not me, so what you say goes in your game. Not arguing that.
Just saying that I think "maintaining realism" really has no place in a game where the entire premise is based on the absolute suspension of disbelief in the first place. (If I wanted absolute realism I'd play Phoenix Command. Don't make me play Phoenix Command. :( )
I suppose I could accuse you of Killing Catgirls, but I won't. ;)
Of course, all that being said, I think the solution you spell out above is pretty good, based on what you're going for. Thumbs up. :)
And by the by, that Summon Monster trap trick? Genius. :)