Is there any way to make a 1st-level spell into a Cantrip?

[Harliquinn Whiteshadow]

I'm curious if there are any trait/feat/etc combinations that allow an arcane caster to turn a 1st level spell into a cantrip or a multiple use/day feature?

[LazarX]

No... there isn't one on the first, I believe there are Prc's or other effects that may achieve the second.

[Xethik]

Not sure if it was errata'd, but Wayang Spellhunter trait + 1st level spell + 0-level increase metamagic means 1st level spell as a cantrip.

[Imbicatus]

Xethik wrote:

Not sure if it was errata'd, but Wayang Spellhunter trait + 1st level spell + 0-level increase metamagic means 1st level spell as a cantrip.

It should be. A Magus with unlimited Merciful Shocking Grasps is a little scary.

[justaworm]

There is always the "research a spell of your own creation" method that could make a less powerful version of a 1st level spell into a cantrip.

[Wheldrake]

Even Wayang Spellhunter can't reduce a spell below its initial level, can it?

If so, that trait is even more broken than it at first appears. Another good reason to houserule it out of existence.

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Hey there Folks,

Magical Lineage was never intended as a way for you to actually lower a spell's level. It was put in to allow you to reduce the increase from a metamagic feat. So, no unlimited magic missiles. I will see to it that the language of this ability is clarified soon and I will get this added to the FAQ.

There should be no way in h@ll to reduce a 1st level spell to a cantrip. Your quest is futile.

[LazarX]

Xethik wrote:

Not sure if it was errata'd, but Wayang Spellhunter trait + 1st level spell + 0-level increase metamagic means 1st level spell as a cantrip.

You can not decrease metamagic costs below zero.

[Claxon]

Wayang Spellhunter reduces metamagic cost. It cannot effect the base spell level. The best it can do is reduce a spell back to the original spell level.

I can think of no way that allows you to cast 1st level spells as cantrips. If you want something close pickup a staff that has your desired 1st level spell in it and you will be able to cast it much more often at your caster level. If caster level isn't important just buy a wand.

Or you could bother with picking up staff-like wand ability.

[Imbicatus]

The exact wording of wayang spellhunter allows it RAW. It sure as hell isn't RAI.

Wayang Spellhunter wrote:

Source Dragon Empires Primer pg. 14 (Amazon)

Category Region
Requirement(s) Minata
You grew up on one of the wayang-populated islands of Minata, and your use of magic while hunting has been a boon to you. Select a spell of 3rd level or below. When you use this spell with a metamagic feat, it uses up a spell slot one level lower than it normally would.

It doesn't reduce the cost of metamagic, it allows you to prepare/cast that spell at one level lower when you cast it with a metamagic feat.

[Xethik]

Thank you for explaining it more clearly, Imbicatus. And yes, it's super dumb and should not happen, especially in Pathfinder.

[Dread Knight]

With that wording it would turn it into a 0 level spell but not a cantrip so it could still only be used as many times as you have it prepared.

[Hawktitan]

There is this FAQ -

Magical Lineage (trait): Can I use this trait to adjust a spell's effective level below the unmodified spell's original level?
No. For example, it won't allow you to alter a wizard's fireball into 2nd-level spell.

Yes the FAQ applies directly to Magical Lineage and not wayang spellhunter, but if you think the FAQ wouldn't apply to both then you are fooling yourself.

[claudekennilol]

Dread Knight wrote:

With that wording it would turn it into a 0 level spell but not a cantrip so it could still only be used as many times as you have it prepared.

There is no difference between a 0 level spell and a cantrip. They are the same thing.

PRD, Wizard wrote:

Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day . . .

[Harliquinn Whiteshadow]

I didn't think there was a way but wanted to at least ask. Thanks all!

[Dread Knight]

claudekennilol wrote:

Dread Knight wrote:

With that wording it would turn it into a 0 level spell but not a cantrip so it could still only be used as many times as you have it prepared.

There is no difference between a 0 level spell and a cantrip. They are the same thing.

PRD, Wizard wrote:

Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day . . .

A spell that has been reduced in level may go to the 0 level spell but it still wouldn't be a cantrip but a modified first level spell and could only be used a certain number of times per day. Cantrips have a defined list and if that spell isn't on it it isn't a Cantrip and therefor can't be cast an infinite amount of times.

[Artoo]

There is a way to gain the ability to cast a first level spell as a spell like ability 2/day. So the answer to your second question is yes. Take a look at the Minor Spell Expertise feat.

[claudekennilol]

Dread Knight wrote:

claudekennilol wrote:

Dread Knight wrote:

With that wording it would turn it into a 0 level spell but not a cantrip so it could still only be used as many times as you have it prepared.

There is no difference between a 0 level spell and a cantrip. They are the same thing.

PRD, Wizard wrote:

Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day . . .

A spell that has been reduced in level may go to the 0 level spell but it still wouldn't be a cantrip but a modified first level spell and could only be used a certain number of times per day. Cantrips have a defined list and if that spell isn't on it it isn't a Cantrip and therefor can't be cast an infinite amount of times.

Spell levels can't be reduced beyond their initial spell level so everything you're saying doesn't matter.

A level 0 spell is a cantrip. That's as simple as it gets. (unless it's an orison).