Goblin Squad Member
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
Over the last few months there have been a lot of opinions going back and forth, and a good many solid threads have gotten bogged down in negativity, spite, and the need to have the last word. That being said, I would like to start off this thread as a place for everyone to express their views, opinions, suggestions, and anything else you want to add, but there is catch:
You get one post, and only one. You can not respond to anyone else's post, you can't come back and add something you have forgotten, correct someone's way of thinking...etc..
This is a place where everyone gets their voice heard, on equal footing, a place where if you have been lurking in the shadows, you now have a chance to say your piece. I implore EVERY SINGLE PERSON on these boards to come and have their say.
Rules:
You may only make ONE post.
You may not talk about any other group in the game (specifically or even alluding to them).
Everything you write must pertain to the game.
You can compare game features to other games.
There is no limit on how big of a post, or how small of a post you want to make.
Suggestions of topic:
The state of the game.
The direction of the game.
What you feel are positives and negatives of the game.
How you feel about the process of Alpha to EE.
Suggestions for the game.
Time lines for what you feel should be added.
Anything pressing about the game that you feel needs to be addressed.
What you feel is MVP.
What you feel ins't MVP.
Basically anything pertaining to the game.
The simple fact is, I can't enforce any of these rules, the only person that can is you. I ask though, if anyone trolls this thread, or breaks these rules, that you ignore that person, and do not respond. We can only police ourselves, and if you can't do that simple task, then I guess you show your true colors.
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I think that GW needs a more structured quality assurance and testing plan.
There should be more engagement with players or at the very least direction on things to test or mess with to look for bugs. Some players are programmers and would get a kick out of helping point things out - you'd be surprised.
Feedback on what bugs are known about would be nice so we know if something we have been mentioning is broke for weeks is actually getting through. A bug log would be nice. Are the bug reports I submit even being looked at? I would stop pointing out things if I knew they were known.
If the Zog server that I've read about still exists, it should be utilized for testing critical features before deployment.
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The Alpha War of Towers patch built up a lot of excitement. Then when it was discovered that it was bugged to irrelevance I think it all deflated.
Better to take your time, code things right, engage testers - rather than rush through things and deploy broken features.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In short:
1. Fix what is in already, and maybe polish it all for easier access/use, before you add larger new features. I am aware that many features are intertwined. Code them for adaptability, with that in mind.
^^^(This, up there, is several months of work and the most important, IMO)^^^
2. No time lines. Implementation list with the goal to be "It Works", next please!
3. I feel that the risk/reward PVP fans deserve risk/reward PVP for MVP. I think that working towers and lootable husks might be enough for that.
4. Pretty happy with the model and working parts of the economic system (the whole process). We simply need a larger population for it to "come alive" as intended.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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My opinion is very simple, I do not see what this game is offering, that is not already in and better, in an other game.
And I don't see the point of using the Pathfinder brand, since the world is basically a big no man's land to be conquered by the players. The references to Golarion tend more towards the Easter eggs, than an actual game setting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Though I am neither a lady nor a gentleman...
The state of the game.
We are getting close to actually having a game here. Due to the (in my opinion too) heavy push for EE GW currently has their hands full of with getting the many features that are already in game working in a somewhat sensible manner. Some of the most significant challenges relate to the inability to reliably manage character related data which is (at least for me) a big concern.
The direction of the game.
The direction is fine. It is true to the original vision. If anything I wish that some of the side tours (such as WoT) would have been avoided and that time would have been spent implementing final features such as feuds.
What you feel are positives and negatives of the game.
Positives
GW has showed the ability to roll out a lot of "world" which while not blowing anyone's mind is more then adequate for its purpose.
Resource diversification means that location and distance will matter.
There is a wide enough variety of escalations to ensure we actually have to stay on the ball and cannot ignore them for extended periods without consequences.
Negatives
Though a lot improvement (from my perspective at least) came to the character responsiveness/UI feedback relating to combat with Alpha 11.0, I am still not overly impressed. For example some conditional effects are applied with 100 % reliability. Some practically never. I have no clue why. Is it broken or working as intended? Had GW stuck with the original plan to fine tune the basic combat with pit fight this game might look a lot different than it is today.
Uncertainty as to when/if certain things will be fixed mean it is very difficult with good conscience to start hyping the game to anyone. That includes my own company.
Too much of the design seems to be driven by the technical side of systems and too little attention seems to be paid to the user experience. For example the decision to design the first iteration of the auction house without at least a "hide unavailable" or similar toggle seems mind boggling for anyone who has actually tried to use it.
How you feel about the process of Alpha to EE.
I believe there are enough features / systems. Maybe even more than we would actually need.
Way too much stuff is too badly broken right now. I would prefer GW to let everyone if the staff breathe for a moment and push EE somewhere in the beginning of next year with the confidence that by that time the current features would by fully up and running. Provided of course that financials would allow this.
Suggestions for the game.
Reputation systems needs to be adjusted so that you will not ruin your reputation by accidentally hitting your friends. Either turn of reputation loss for hitting party (and preferably "raid”) members or provide a toggle which allows the same or provide the possibility to "forgive" reputation loss. A toggle would probably be best solution long term (IMO).
Time lines for what you feel should be added.
Announce a clear and realistic timeline when you know you will have the game ready (whatever it is). No more last day delays or putting things indefinitely on hold with a go-live with two days notice.
Anything pressing about the game that you feel needs to be addressed.
Major bugs and reputation loss for friendly fire must go.
What you feel is MVP.
For me personally MVP would have included basic player controlled settlements and points of interest along with some kind of ability for player groups to initiate hostilities against each other (i.e. feuds and wars). I know it is not going happen and I am over it but that would have been the true MVP for me.
What you feel ins't MVP.
What we have today. Fix the bugs and reputation and I can live with it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is actually rather fun I spend more time in PFO lately than I do in EVE.
I am really enjoying the freedom in Alpha of pretty much making whatever you want and not caring about the long-term consequences (the only long-term consequence of Alpha is your personal/characters long-term reputation for honesty/reliability/helpfulness/attitude etc).
Late Alpha could have done with more involvement and more active settlements but that is the choices people make.
I am going to take a break from the game when EE starts and let the dust settle, I may log just to start collecting XP but it is possible I will not come in for a month or two. My current logic on late start:
- longterm I am not too bothered about 2 months XP
- at present EE looks like being a madhouse of new players who never bothered learning anything in Alpha spamming the chat and complaining about how confusing it is :D
- until WoT works properly we will quickly hit training caps
- the PvP aspects will hopefully be functioning by then
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Goblin Squad Member
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Overall, I think Alpha began too soon. Alpha brought momentum from the KS player base, and that momentum has done whatever it could and seems spent. The emerald spire superdungeon making its debut as one of those wax sculptures you watch being made in a machine at the museum is terrifying. That big blob is not a good response to the disenchanted players. MVP would be a great response.
Since PvE = boring grind. The MVP = PVP.
<waves wand>
Encumbrance, player looting, player training into tier 2, player crafting into tier 2 and towers with working windows/capture mechanics, Go !
I don't even care about the bugs at this point, just let me have fun between teleports.
ps
I can tell from this post that I have completely lost sight of this being an Alpha. I am expecting a game when I log in, probably because it has been 2 years since the KS. I'm not quitting, not yet. Just lurking more and more.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My expectation is that I'm not the only one who's likely to see a post in this thread that I want to respond to and will forget what thread I'm in since I don't always check thread titles before responding.
My opinion is that Early Enrollment will be a fairly rough experience for the players, but I'm ready for it to start yesterday - teleports, rollbacks, and all.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The state of the game.
The game has a long way to go before OE - but a few months of sustainable march from EE too, I think. The core systems just need some iteration and then we're gold.
The direction of the game.
Spot on. EVE is a terrible game filled with terrible people, but I played it for the comradery and the politics. Both of those are absoutely already in place, and the game is just an excuse for them to happen. It may not be a good excuse yet, but it will be.
What you feel are positives and negatives of the game.
Vaguely covered this above. The largest positive so far has been meeting the folks in Braccas (another company in Sunholm), grouping up to kill some escalation bosses and begin to gather the information and build the tools we want for EE. This is an MMO, and the joy is the people.
Negatives: The game itself. It just isn't there yet. But it really doesn't bother me - I've been labelled fanboy for simply maintaining the assumption that everything will turn out fine, but that assumption has rarely failed me in the past.
How you feel about the process of Alpha to EE.
The EE hold was exactly what was needed. No more dates. Setting a date and then having to miss it just builds and breaks expectations. Have a patch every fortnight of the quality that has been occuring so far, and in time you'll see the general sentiment around here shift positive - and THAT is when EE should begin.
What you feel is MVP.
Player looting is very important. Threading itself can wait, but I don't think WoT itself provides enough incentive to engage in PvP (especially for off-TZ players such as myself, who will rarely find an open window). Solving the PvP incentive structure will make EE more viable, as PvPers generate content for everyone they encounter.
What you feel isn't MVP.
Pretty much everything. There are very few new features we need for MVP, but the ones that we have need to be reliably functional.
As the game is now, considering I've only been here since the beginning of the stress test, it's more or less what I was expecting from Alpha. I'm eager for EE to start, but I'd like for every player to be on equal ground at the beginning. If someone's getting teleported/rolled back, everyone should, and if someone's lucky enough to not experience those bugs, no one should. I understand that bugs exist and will likely persist through EE, but I trust GW will know when it's acceptably "fixed."
With regards to direction, the gameplay is what I was hoping for after reading so many of the dev blogs. I really do like the idea of EVE, but I tried it once and just couldn't get into it. I realize now that the solution was to join a good group of people, and I've found that in PFO. My choice now is to stick with PFO and the people I've met or to attempt to find decent people in EVE for a similar experience.
My above "choice" is irrelevant because I absolutely adore the Golarion setting. EVE will never have this world, and it keeps me bound to PFO because I love it so much. Therefore, I must admit that I could overlook a million smaller issues if I felt like I'm playing in the River Kingdoms. I know it's still early and a lot of that content can wait, but I want to vocalize my support for fleshing out gods, races, neighboring countries, etc.
As for MVP, I'd like to see the bugs relatively "fixed," encumbrance on, player looting, and tower pvp windows working properly. Everything else (and some of the above) can wait.
...Or just let me play an angel and you can go in any direction you want, GW!
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The state of the game - The teleport/desync issue, imho, needs to be fixed as soon as possible. Other than that, any UI, role, feature, graphics, and similar "issues" are not surprises or game-killers for me. I don't necessarily expect a polished product right now. The impending switch to EE is really the only thing keeping me from playing more right now.
The direction of the game - Seems good. There seem to be pretty consistent changes, fixes, and so on. I'm more interested to see what direction the game takes than able to comment on the current direction. I'm sure I have about as many gripes and likes as the next person. It is way less Pathfinder-y than I had originally thought, but it seems interesting and I'm going with it.
Fix teleport/desync/server whatever, reactives, finish encumbrance and looting, and I'm ready for EE. I may well be in the minority, but I think we can stumble through a couple of months of figuring out PvP, combat, and eq issues.
No matter how long it waits, I agree that EE will be a madhouse. It takes a lot of out-of-game reading and a couple of weeks of game time to catch on to many of the game details. I think it will be frustrating for many people, but there is a pretty good in-game community to help out.
Personal gripes - Rogues and Shortbows need some love. Basic recipes at the trainers please (didn't we just switch to paying them more anyway? teach me shortsword already!).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I only logged in once, and it was for about 20-25 minutes. Backgrounds loaded randomly, I had to click on every NPC to see if they were quest/tutorial related, and the coolest thing I could do was jump, frankly. I did not enjoy the experience, so I logged out and uninstalled.
Nothing was intuitive. My first experiences in other MMOs have not required a player-written guide to follow.
I will most likely not try this game again for a while. I'll wait and see if more things get filled out/revamped. As is, it is not enjoyable enough for me to dedicate what little gaming time I have to it's current incarnation.
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I spent way too much time defending the game to friends, so much so that I had to even convince myself to keep playing it.
The list of issues is massive
grinding
number of feats per weapon
uselessness of shields
armor speed (a Ryan problem really, sorry but opinions do not make a great game)
Lack of PVP (a Ryan problem again)
deserted landscape, seriously no one is playing
Delayed attacks, wtf?
No training if you PVP, WTF??? Really, pay for a game that allows you to pvp but takes away your ability to train skills if you do. Piss poor, Ryan if you do not want pvp in the game, then take it out. Do not say you like pvp and want it in the game, this alone proves you do not. I dont even want to hear about WoT, that is capture the flag sillyness found in any game.
Cannot build settlements, yeah yeah a later feature, bah
Can only train to level 8, yeah yeah its increased later only in PC settlements that play a lot of capture the flag and only if you are a member, Horse Apples, pure lame
Only 6 in a group, cmon, how stupid is that
Escalations running out of control, but working as intended
Graphics are lacking, can be worked out later but is sure turning off players now, something tells me it will stay lacking
The biggest problem of them all!!! Ryan plays favorites with the people who kiss his @ss, and ignores everyone else. That alone will not bring me back once my two months is up.
I dont see the game improving with him at the helm.
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Goblin Squad Member
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careful Bluddwolf, the forum police is strong with the TEO group :)
Broke the rules.... ;-)
If I had to describe PFO in one word: Shallow; Soulless; Lackluster; Blah; Meh; Ho-hum; etc.... you can pick one.
This is my biggest problem with PFO. There is nothing new here.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Having played since Alpha 1, the game is improving each Alpha release so you can see the hard work of the team. For that, I congratulate the whole team and the leadership group keeping it on track.
However, I am not sure what PFO wants to be; and additionally if it will get there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Good to be able to do my say without it being buried in endless discussion.
TL;DR: The game is still on a track that I like, they are following a path true to their (kickstarter) word but I have serious doubts if they can pull it off and make this game truly shine.
Answering Cheatles Bulletpoints:
The state of the game.
Would have expected it to be in much better shape by now.
The direction of the game.
Good, still in line with what I am expecting.
What you feel are positives and negatives of the game.
POsitives: the colors of the sky during Dusk and Dawn. The Keyword system. The tiered crafting and the random + with Refining. The look of Ogres and Goblins. The vastness of the lands. The one-world concept.
Negatives: horrible Combat, ultra clunky animations, convoluted equipment and Feat system, featureless landscape, boring architecture, everything barebone, barebone, bugs, bugs, clunky stuff not being polished.
How you feel about the process of Alpha to EE.
I am ok with the delays and the feedback. Ryan could be a bit less curt in his posts but I guess he will never be flowery.
Suggestions for the game.
Get a producer who has delivered MMO's before.
Time lines for what you feel should be added.
Not up to us, if you ask me. See below.
Anything pressing about the game that you feel needs to be addressed.
The desync, teleporting and clunky combat.
What you feel is MVP.
Actual Settlements, fast Travel, looting, caravans, sad, feuds, factions. The only thing that can wait is wars and sieges. We are talking Viable here, not Playable, and I think unless those things are in, we will NEVER reach 20k players, ever. Or even a thousand. Viable means pretty much most features that are the core of PFO. After that you can polish, add and beautify.
What you feel ins't MVP.
Wars and Sieges.
Basically anything pertaining to the game.
See below.
I still see the huge potential of this game, but lately lose faith from time to time. There is this nagging feeling that sais that a team of 18 people should have accomplished more by now. I have seen more interesting and better looking games from 3-man teams with zero funding working for 2 years in an attic, then what PFO is currently offering.
I soothe my mind by telling myself that we only see the tip of the iceberg of the work that has been done so far, and that PFO is a game that needs a huge foundation, that simply does not show itself to us yet, even though a lot of groundwork already has been done.
Then suddenly I get thoughts about how there really aren't any true veterans on the development team when it comes to *producing and delivering* a MMO and that they are most likely missing a real producer who can whip this team into shape and make it more efficient in producing content, squashing bugs and setting goals and priorities. Ryan is an idea guy, a motivator and initiator, but I do not see a great producer in him. Who is the producer? Lisa? Mark? Not sure. Doesn't matter. It is obvious there is individual talent here, and experience in certain fields. I am just not seeing the results of 2 years, 18 folks and 2 million yet. I am also not so sure about crowdforging. Fans really suck at making games imo.
If a guy like Scott Hartsman would have been at the helm from the beginning, I have a feeling GW would have more to show by now, though Hartsmans salary probably would have eaten up 1/3rd of the Kickstarter money. :) I also realize that Hartsman has had the luxury of working with multimillion dollar budgets, but that is not my point. I just think more could have been accomplished by now. Is it the lack of funds for some really good hardware?
I know I am rambling here, I do not know half of it, I am an amateur and so forth. But these are my feelings, and I am MIGHTY glad that this thread does not allow discussion. :D I hope this also goes for the developers!
Sometimes I suddenly see the Gem shine through that PFO could become, but with the current pace I am afraid that none of the real *shine* will ever make it into the game. The features, yes, but not all those wonderful details that will make it into this true gem of a game.
How long does it take to implement scrolling in the AH UI? How long before someone decides that every texture should *not* have to look as if it is covered in oil? How long before we get some water in the rivers? How long before they can start remodeling Thornkeep and not have these completely unrealistic bridges over the water that start with HUGE stairs(poor merchants with their carts) just because the river banks are on a different height and nobody apparently has the time to actually sculpt the landscape into believable architecture?
There are so many small things like that and they say two things to me:
- Too little time, not enough money and too few developers;
- Too little experience with the devs, and not efficient with resources;
I am afraid that lately I am inclining more to the latter.
I have this (unrealistic?) hope that once EE begins, the money can start flowing in, and we will start to see an increase in the pace of delivering content, of polish, of adding fun little features. I am hoping for a post where Ryan tells us that they were able to hire 4 new developers/artists to work on <insert feature>.
But with the current pace of content and bug-squashing I feel we will never reach that turningpoint: that it will fizzle before GW reaches that critical mass where development can start to follow a much steeper curve. And even then, I am still not sure about Crowdforging. TBH, I have not seem any crowdforging so far anyway: all I have seen is devs realizing that certain things are not working well, based on criticism of the players and then adjust things accordingly. To me that's not crowdforging but rather a game that is so early indevelopment that players can actually point some stuff out and devs adapting to it.
One could say this may also be because of inexperience of the dev-team, but since I feel that a LOT of new ground is being broken with PFO and its features(keywords to name one), I think that is not the case here. Though I was kind of surprised that the whole Ranged vs Melee thing had to be pointed out by the players: it's not that this conundrum hasn't come up like a million times before in the last 15 years of MMO development(a typical thing where I felt there is some inexperience with MMO-making with this team).
Anyway, since I am not a fan of true crowdforging (players prioritizing features) I am actually ok with how things have fared so far, when it comes to the input of players.
So, I am still very much in line with where PFO is heading, not so hopeful anymore if they will manage to pull it off.
Hire Scott! ( I just read that he is the Trion CEO so I guess that's not gonna happen)
(I am so glad nobody can respond to this).
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Goblin Squad Member
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The Competition
Star Citizen Overview Trailer
Star Citizen Persistent Universe
Star Citizen FPS Demo
Life is Feudal Promo
Black Desert Features
Archeage Features
I've also heard positive things about Gloria Victus, Everquest Next, The Repopulation, and Camelot Unchained.
PFO is up against a tide of promising sandboxes and sandparks. It itself feels dated with features and gameplay as uninspired as its graphics. It would have a hard time succeeding at the point even with a great captain at the helm. An ex-marketing guy with no MMO development experience has proven not to be a great captain.
While a decent idea in 2011 the time for PFO to shine is past.
This game is dead on arrival.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is premature to deliver judgment, as the project is incomplete. The artist hasn't signed his painting. The book has not been published. The game is still being built.
The design is complete enough to evaluate, allowing that I am not privy to its entirety.
Design Impressions:
- There is overemphasis on cooperative-competitive play and too little emphasis on individual play.
- PvE is monodimensional. The potential of emerald spire and player-made dungeons offers respite to this condition, but even there the restriction on material rewards seems to emasculate the potential.
- Not counting character development, there is very little appeal in the game for the builder unless he or she is a community leader.
- There is little for the explorer to do except map resource nodes and map advantageous/dangerous battlegrounds.
- Escalations ramp up and spread much too quickly.
- Efforts to reduce and eliminate escalations should be more effective, and that effort should pay off over time so that a settlement has some time to do other things than 'mow the lawn' continuously... and there should be other things to do than mow the lawn lest we become ruminants perpetually chewing escalatory cud.
- The commonality and universality of achievements renders achievement mostly meaningless. If everyone does them where is the achievement?
- The political game, again, is one of those 1% deals, just like settlement building.
- Settlement designs, at least at the start, seem terribly shortsighted in terms of specialization. A community would not naturally specialize into such dependent relationships.
- The vast array of feats, conditions, consumables, etc. in combat are obstructive and should be more deeply placed rather than just spread out for the player to micromanage while in combat. Agreed, the complexity and variety helps offset the lack of 'builder' elements observed above, but these things should not get in the way of an active fight. Provide an interface the player can drill-down to manipulate while preparing for action rather than erecting abilities as obstructions to combat.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Really TL;DR - PFO will succeed, but changes are needed on the initial focus.
TL;DR - GW needs to deliver the content and features most beneficial to keep their core user base excited about the game. I posit that it is actually meaningful PvE content, and not player Politics and Wars, that is most needed early in the PfO's life-cycle. Put another way, predators need prey. Attracting only the wolves won't make for an interesting world. Get some sheep, the wolves will follow.
Pathfinder Online is at the teeter-totter stage of product development, and a few choices will tilt the future to success or failure.
The design vision has been tested against the reality of the budget, timing and skills of the team producing it. As is always the case in product development projects like this one (it just happens to be a game this time), there are gaps between the vision and what the project team can deliver due to the real-world constraints. Some of those constraints are imposed. They just have to be dealt with. Other constraints are the result of choices and should be re-evaluated. It is the choices made during this critical moment that will largely determine the ultimate outcome of PFO.
This is a low-budget project using a slow-ramp growth model. This is very important to remember. The consumer target for this game is substantially different than the target that the block-buster sand-box games are going after. Targeting that smaller core requires _really_ understanding the features that group is looking for, and then maniacally focusing on delivering it early in the ramp.
I worry that GW has forgotten that EVE's initial target was NOT their ultimate user base. The political maneuvering and heavy PVP wars were not how that game began. While it was built into the mechanics and planned for the future, the game's initial game-play was largely exploration, PvE and trade (mining.) Make those three things compelling in PFO Early Enrollement, and a large group of Golarion fans will take up residence just to explore and live in the world.
Then, once you have a thriving community inhabiting the world, allow the politics to develop naturally. Wars always follow politics.
I fear that GW has targeted the current state of EVE as the initial state of PFO, and have targeted the wrong initial consumers. They had a great initial user-base of people who love the setting. But by focusing on the conflict aspects, they've failed to get the mass of Pathfinder players excited about their one competitive advantage..the developed setting with a loyal fan-base. Focusing the initial development on content would have attracted a lot of Pathfinder players, who then would have made the world a place where politics naturally develop.
Put another way, GW was fooled by the vocal PVP community into focusing on that aspect of game-play initially. Look, I'm a PvP fan, but I'm not fooled into thinking it is the only meaningful type of play. The typical militant PvPr is impatient and easily bored...it's why they don't like 'unexciting' PvE play.
To expect them to go on this journey of joint-development and early game creation was a _fundamental_ mistake. They'll be full of excitement early as they imagine dominating their opponents; but will be the most vocal in declaring the death of the game when it doesn't meet their expectations during EE.
Enrolling rabid fans of Golarion as a setting (rather than PvP players) would have played into the tendencies of the target segment instead of against it. Golarion-loving players are invested in the success of the game as a way to experience their love of Golarion, and will be patient as the game goes through the many inevitable growing pains. Once the game has a stable core, the PvPrs will join the game just like they did EVE.
If I were writing the business proposition for this game, I would have focused on "Golarion-loving Creators" as my initial design target (small population that will be the early adopters), with "Conflict-loving Players" as my strategic target (ultimate large population from which I'll draw customers after growth inflection.)
My suggestions: Let the PvP meta-game develop over time. Refocus on creating a reason to care about the world. Give us something to fight _for_ and we'll fight. Putting us out in a soul-less paintball field and saying 'go at it' isn't a sandbox game, it's a large MOBA without the smooth mechanics and Nintendo-inspired finishing moves.
I believe that it can grow to have a meaningful and long-lasting place in the sandbox world. But survival in the next 6 months will be the key, and keeping the core engaged and excited is absolutely required.
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bunny hops thru thread favorite-ing.
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Teleporting and duping bugs need fixing. BEFORE EE, or GW will embarass itself.
I worry that the graphics looking like a 1994 game will make it impossible for me to recruit friends to play. Many people I've spoken with who have seen the game in Alpha or on youtube have panned it for the graphics.
I love the xp while you sleep idea (as a casual player who works two Real Life jobs). I love it so much, I play Eve-Online. :-)
There are a lot of competing games (as well as expansions for existing MMOs) vying for our attention. I'm just not sure that PFO will be the one to win me over, long-term.
I do like the whole crowd funding thing, though, and consider my money well spent just to see the process over the next couple of years.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Can I just point to Dogan's post? In particular, this:
TL;DR - GW needs to deliver the content and features most beneficial to keep their core user base excited about the game. I posit that it is actually meaningful PvE content, and not player Politics and Wars, that is most needed early in the PfO's life-cycle. Put another way, predators need prey. Attracting only the wolves won't make for an interesting world. Get some sheep, the wolves will follow.
I haven't been around much lately as I'm not much of an alpha tester. More troublingly, I'm not that enthused about playing, and I can't get any of my group (except hubby, and then only grudgingly) to log in with me. We're all MMO veterans, and tabletop veterans going back close to 30 years; we tend to stick with one game, and one community, for years. We should be excited about playing in Golarion, but we aren't (not even me, and I've been hanging around the forums for going on two years now), and I think it's a combination of things that tie back to Dogan's post.
Please follow Dogan's suggestion. Make exploration, PvE and trade compelling. Add the extensive PvP bells and whistles after we've figuratively and literally rooted ourselves in the landscape.
Getting the permanent forums up and running would help as well.
(Edit: OK, cheating a bit by editing this in, but a very BIG thank you to Cheatle for starting this thread!)
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I'd evaluate the game as being a touch less than the original Everquest at the moment. NPCs and quests aren't really implemented. Monsters don't even wander. PvP isn't implemented. The character start is very similar to EQ. "Here's a club; go kill goblins."
Crowdforging is a positive. I like that the Devs are attempting to build what the crowd is asking.
I cannot yet tell if I think the combat system is a positive or a negative. For me, it has signs of both. I generally do not do well when there are lots of different kinds of attacks and careful timing is needed to hit windows of opportunity. IMO, that turns combat into split-second minutia that gets really boring. I'd rather watch the game play instead of watching for tiny icons. Basically, I'd rather trade blows than deal with some strange form of electronic fencing. I suspect that puts me in the minority.
I like the approach of bridging between levels of development: Alpha to EE. I wonder if perhaps there needs to be a few more steps before EE, and I suspect that is perhaps more a matter of funding than it is consumer patience.
The most pressing thing I could see solving would be desynch/teleport/item duplication. It is a fundamental issue that without resolution undermines all forms of game play. To launch a phase requiring monthly payment with these flaws could mean disaster.
MVP means what exactly? Minimum Viable Product for the cult following to have some fun, or minimum for widespread commercial adoption? If you mean a cult following, that could be achievable by offering the cult incentives. By that, I mean simple things like (for example) the ability to name landmarks. MVP for widespread commercial adoption is a ways off.
Once EE starts, some future perspective players are going to compare their starting XP to that of characters who started a year before them. They will then conclude it is too much to make up, and move on. I've done this with Eve several times. I read that it doesn't matter, but eventually still conclude I missed the boat and shouldn't even start. There needs to be some proof that a character that is 1 month old can fight productively against a character 2 years old.
My last item is just something I'll throw out for the heck of it. I liked LotRO's "Monster Play" very much. Monsters had at most a handful of powers to use and started viable to fight, albeit at a disadvantage until they got some experience. The downfall of Monster Play was it was limited to just one "zone." World-wide Monster Play in PFO would be rather cool, even if there was no advancement system. Perhaps it would be tied to escalations and/or monster hexes. Maybe monsters could claim towers?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'll pipe in because I can, not that I really want to.
Dogan brought up some good points.
Yes, I'll give some original thought here.
I see the game as in constant development and wish to not judge the progress nor the direction the game is going. I continue to spew out a similar message across many threads, maybe someday that will change.
I look at PFO as if I were painting it. The first few strokes, lines are ragged and incomplete, but the more I stroke the canvas the more detail comes to light. With another year of painting, I am eager to see what it becomes.
I don't fully understand EE or its intent, nor do I really care if GW explains it to me or not. It is an optional part to me. What I care about is what the game is at full release. When i see a forum revolve around the thoughts and ideas of 20-50 people who regularly post, I simply remind myself the game is indeed but an infant. It needs time to mature, and the constant crying of all the other infants (yes us forum posters) does little to elevate the game because nothing can be created by the tug of war through words that exist only to represent the many different individual approaches that GW could never in their dreams compensate for.
This means we must trust GW in their framework. In their plan of action. Do I wish to know what this plan is? Its agenda? Sure I do. And should we focus our efforts here, in persuading Ryan to help us see what they are building week after week, then maybe that alone will answer, and quiet down many of our own questions and thoughts.
If GW relies on player feedback as much as some of you believe, I think they should stop!
I look at the combat mechanics, or pvp functionality, as just one piece of the puzzle that GW is trying to get right. For myself, I do not care if it is done first or last.....but they have chosen to put it as a priority early on. Who's to not say that while us PVP and crafting nerds are playing over the next 4 months, that a slew of other PVE elements won't be introduced?
I would not sell anyone on this game at this point. That might change in two weeks, three weeks or 2 months down the road. People will come, and people will go. But for those that leave, the vast majority will pop in from time to time to see how the game is progressing. And every time, if the game has improved, a small percentage will stick around. And heck, they might just invite their friends to come along. We got a long road ahead of us.
To conclude my pointless rant, I can only ask Ryan if he would be so kind as to inform me as to their internal agenda. They must have a "to-do" list and while I'm not asking for dates on when they will be completed, just simply a list of things they want to achieve over the next couple months, and support that with maybe a weekly or even bi-monthly report. Sometimes knowing what might be around next month is worth more than knowing might fix the teleport issue tomorrow! :)
Ha, and you thought I was done...fools!
Seriously, what is up with the shield feats? Whose idea was that? That person should be shot in the calf with a paintball gun, just once, and then sent to rework them to truly represent the traditional shield play that we all know and love.
I'm not worried about the graphics right now. The content, if done properly, will draw people to play and the graphics can be upgraded over time.
Well, time for some TF2, it's just one thing I do while I wait on PFO to progress further. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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The WoT combat isn't consequence free. We are fighting for the ability of our settlements to train higher levels. People can see the status of the PvP as soon as they enter the hex, and chose not to go there.
The adjustments to the rep recovery are just that, adjustments, the second such adjustment. If needed, they'll be adjusted again. And again. And again.
The crafting system is inadequate for long-term play, but I think it meets MVP, which is the criteria for Early Enrollment. It has to improve, and I think it will.
I'm one of the most anti PvP people around, and I think you're wrong about it being anything close to a gankfest.
If we could have full-time game-masters controlling the critters, with the energy to play them as opponents that truly test us, we could get by with no PvP, but we can't have that. other players, who want to take our stuff and are prepared to kill us to do it if need be will make the game richer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The state of the game -
I believe people are finally realizing what MVP really means and its hitting some like a punch in the gut.
The direction of the game -
Dogan and Loko Loki have already expressed my feelings better then I could on this.
What you feel are positives and negatives of the game -
Positive -
I was able to sell one of my two accounts to recoup a chunk of my initial investment.
The game has a lot of promise and potential
Negative -
The game will not survive long enough to fulfill that potential without some drastic changes and a lot of improvement on things GW does not seem to think matter.
What you feel is MVP -
Obviously a lot more then what GW feels in MVP and is most likely different then what anyone else feels is MVP which is part of GW's current stumbling block, each person has a different view of what they consider MVP based on there goals and desires in the game.
Suggestions for the game -
Free to play until OE. Honestly this game is a year away if not more at the rate they are going to being worth the subscription fees I believe they were looking to charge. Its one thing to do an EE with a MVP that doesn't include many of the games most important long term features and no truly engaging short term content if its free and quite another to charge more money for it.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The WoT combat isn't consequence free. We are fighting for the ability of our settlements to train higher levels. People can see the status of the PvP as soon as they enter the hex, and chose not to go there.
The adjustments to the rep recovery are just that, adjustments, the second such adjustment. If needed, they'll be adjusted again. And again. And again.
The crafting system is inadequate for long-term play, but I think it meets MVP, which is the criteria for Early Enrollment. It has to improve, and I think it will.
I'm one of the most anti PvP people around, and I think you're wrong about it being anything close to a gankfest.
If we could have full-time game-masters controlling the critters, with the energy to play them as opponents that truly test us, we could get by with no PvP, but we can't have that. other players, who want to take our stuff and are prepared to kill us to do it if need be will make the game richer.
So much for respecting others' opinions and not responding, lol.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is premature to deliver judgment, as the project is incomplete. The artist hasn't signed his painting. The book has not been published. The game is still being built.
The design is complete enough to evaluate, allowing that I am not privy to its entirety.
Design Impressions:
...
- There is overemphasis on cooperative-competitive play and too little emphasis on individual play.
- PvE is monodimensional. The potential of emerald spire and player-made dungeons offers respite to this condition, but even there the restriction on material rewards seems to emasculate the potential.
- Not counting character development, there is very little appeal in the game for the builder unless he or she is a community leader.
- There is little for the explorer to do except map resource nodes and map advantageous/dangerous battlegrounds.
- Escalations ramp up and spread much too quickly.
- Efforts to reduce and eliminate escalations should be more effective, and that effort should pay off over time so that a settlement has some time to do other things than 'mow the lawn' continuously... and there should be other things to do than mow the lawn lest we become ruminants perpetually chewing escalatory cud.
- The commonality and universality of achievements renders achievement mostly meaningless. If everyone does them where is the achievement?
- The political game, again, is one of those 1% deals, just like settlement building.
- Settlement designs, at least at the start, seem terribly shortsighted in terms of specialization. A community would not naturally specialize into such dependent relationships.
- The vast array of feats, conditions, consumables, etc. in combat are obstructive and should be more deeply placed rather than just spread out for the player to micromanage while in combat. Agreed, the complexity and variety helps offset the lack of 'builder' elements observed above, but these things should not get in the way of an active fight. Provide an interface the player can drill-down to
Whether you intended it or not, this is an indictment of the "Vision" and I completely agree.
There are too many constraints on how the sand can be used, in this supposed sand box.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Fail early ain't such a bad thing.
The major issue is:-
1. Things have to work correctly.
AND
2. Things have to be fun to the players
Atm, the bugs and stuff sound like it does not work correctly. This is not adequate to charge for.
Next, it has to be fun for the players as well (being not just software application to use, but to use AND have fun using.
And here I think is one direction to increase this second problem solution:-
Gotta quote:
While it was built into the mechanics and planned for the future, the game's initial game-play was largely exploration, PvE and trade (mining.) Make those three things compelling in PFO Early Enrollement, and a large group of Golarion fans will take up residence just to explore and live in the world.
1/ Exploration: I envisage a large wilderness that I want to safari in. Now this is beyond safari, I want to roguelike my way around this world. One way to do this is for characters to have to SURVIVE in the outback. bring survival supplies and food etc if away from town and train to skill up in hunting etc. This to differentiate explorers from other types. This changes the psychological size of the map from the geographical size of the map.
2/ Idk about PvE I guess this is the nodes and resource acquisition where it should be dangerous either other players or surviving.
3/ Trade: It should be beasts of burden to carry stuff of size/weight significant distances from different settlements.
=
I think to me that is what I would enjoy as per those space games where you spend time exploring and a run back to settlement is a major achievement itself and all about logistics and organization. Effectively that is aping space-trading sims? This should be the early wilderness Frontier phase or part of the map of the game. The Development Settlment Cosmopolitan part should be later with thieves and other social roles active there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So much for respecting others' opinions and not responding, lol.
A) It was my opinion, and my first post in the thread.
B) I respect everyone's opinion*, even when I disagree and/or choose to correct factual errors of earlier posts without quoting them.C) I didn't even notice what thread the comment was in, and might not have responded if I had. I apologize if someone feels oppressed by my opinion
*With one or two glaring exceptions
D) Why are you still here? (Edit: I probably should marked that as Rhetorical. I'm well aware of why you're still here, so don't feel obliged to rant again unless it makes you feel better)
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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A) It was my opinion, and my first post in the thread.
B) I respect everyone's opinion*, even when I disagree and/or choose to correct factual errors of earlier posts without quoting them.
C) I didn't even notice what thread the comment was in, and might not have responded if I had. I apologize if someone feels oppressed by my opinion*With one or two glaring exceptions
D) Why are you still here? (Edit: I probably should marked that as Rhetorical. I'm well aware of why you're still here, so don't feel obliged to rant again unless it makes you feel better)
I'm here so people can ask me that and complain when I answer them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Before I start I'd like affirm that I want this game to succeed, and I'm on board with the vision presented during the kickstarter: hybrid MMO, competing player kingdoms, etc.
However I do have some concerns and agree with some of the earlier posters, notably Dogan and Tynecale.
In the time the game has been under development and considering the money that has been spent: 4.9M by end 2014 according to the infographic, it should be in a better state and with more content that we're seeing. Other unity games are doing better with less. This suggests to me poor productivity and/or poor project management in the GW team.
A few scenarios as an outsider that make me question their project management skills:
- game of towers: spending time and resources developing gameplay which will only be in use for a few months and then be obsolete and replaced (or so we're told), seems inefficient - why not spend the war of towers resources accelerating settlements or developing nascent gameplay in another area such as faction warfare
- Mr Dancey, goblin works CEO, clearly spends a lot of time reading and communicating on the PFO and other forum boards. Presumably Mr Dancey is one of GW's most expensive employees. Therefore I question why there isn't a community manager doing what much of what Mr Dancey and associated alts do on the forums. Shouldn't he be doing CEO things? In my projects I have to add value commensurate with what clients are charged for my time. It is poor value for the business for me to be doing a job that could be done by a junior employee.
- the MVP branding. I think it breeds complacency, laziness and an acceptance of mediocrity. I'm worried that the statement 'it's good enough for MVP' has infected goblinworks. I see the auction house as an example of this. There are so many basic ease of use features that could be added but haven't been done. As a consumer the MVP sounds like a Minimum Value Product, and I'm not sure that's what I want to be buying.
Process of alpha to EE.
As far as I'm concerned MVP is when I and others are willing to pay 15 dollar/month for the game. I think we're a long way from that. I personally want to play PFO, not game of towers.
What I feel isn't MVP:
Game of towers. I know this is happening and is some kind of filler until settlements have been developed sufficiently to be implemented. But until that time (6 months to a year away?), PFO is essentially a PVP game about fighting over a few towers scattered on the landscape. There is a crafting element in that you can make the weapons and armour you'll use to compete in the game of towers. There are also some static mobs of PVE monsters that will attack you if you approach them. PFO: game of towers isn't the PFO game I want to be playing (or an early/beta implementation - it) and I don't expect there is a great market for it.
What I feel should be MVP:
Factions (at a basic level in the first instance). There is no pathfinder or golarion currently in PFO. I know some Paizo/table top fans who put funds into the kickstarter and are disappointed. GW want to have a cashstore and sell cosmetic products. I expect PVE/builder/character development type gamers are the biggest market for these products. GW should be trying to keep them engaged rather than solely PVP crowd. There is little purpose or drive in the game. Little to aim for. Introducing some level of faction membership would help create content, a reason to play the game, competition between players, and allow the project to make use of Golarion material.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The state of the game.
Well, it's an alpha. It plays and looks like I expect an alpha to look and play, not well.
The direction of the game.
They lost me at single server PvP only. After that, the esoteric character advancement, corpse looting, etc were simply nails in the coffin.
What you feel are positives and negatives of the game.
Positive, hmm, they have something to show for their work versus vaporware. Negatives, too many to list, but I'll say this. I'm a game PLAYER, not a game DESIGNER. Myself and others similar to my lack of game design knowledge should never be given the helm for game direction. Crowd design sounds like a horrible idea.
How you feel about the process of Alpha to EE.
Looks like this are moving in a forward direction...
Suggestions for the game.
I'm not a game designer, don't take any of my suggestions. All I need to know about a plane is it will stay in the air and get me from point A to B in one piece. A sincere Good Luck / Best Wishes on getting this game soaring
Time lines for what you feel should be added.
Um, PvP - never.
Anything pressing about the game that you feel needs to be addressed.
Nothing that hasn't already been mentioned. De-sync, random ports. Etc
What you feel is MVP.
Server integrity
What you feel ins't MVP.
PvP
Basically anything pertaining to the game.
Again, I wish the Devs the best of luck and as smooth sailing as possible. I don't see the point of all the vitriol being spewed here and there. There are plenty of other options out there. On Thursday, the new WoW expansion drops, so that's where I'll be. If you feel there's better out there, go play it. Stop wasting time here.
I also decide to not sell my account and have had several friends and acquaintances use my second account to try the game. Perhaps I'll find someone who enjoys it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A little bit of background - so you might easier understand where I'm coming from.
I belong to the older group of players. Actually I'm old enough to have a son who now plays with me. But I'm the driving force behind PFO in this household. Computer gaming goes back 30 years with my first C64 - but I also did PBM (Play by [snail-]mail), PbeM (Play by e-mail), board games and table top RPG.
My focus has shifted over 40 years gaming - yes - I count from early days when board games was the only option to play with friends. Sometimes I missed complete mainstream gaming (never played WoW or another such game online) - sometimes I was way ahead of general adoption (was in the very first Geramn PBM game and started TT RPG while still in school and when I had to translate the rules from English to German for my younger brother.
I rergard myself as a competetive player. In TT boardgaming I was a member of 'Die Legionaere' - a team that dominated the competitive boardgaming scene for several years and was a multiple German board game Champion and we came second in the European Bordgame Championships. In TT RPG Pathfinder was actually my very first RPG where I started to play organized games - and became the first European 5-star GM. In PBM/PBeM I was an alliance leader in several different games and in more then one we dominated - sometimes replacing the 'old guard' that knew everything and regarded me and players I atracted with disdain amd laughed about us.
Off course all these games have been a lot smaller as what is planned for PFO even at start. But then my goals are a lot smaller - no world domination - just a viable settlement that will be unique in it's way and that won't be overrun.
Having no MMO experience has it's disadvantages - I can't compare with other games. At the same time it has a large advantage - I look at the game without prejudice how it 'should' be because of game zx or y.
The state of the game.
I have spend many hours glued to the screen, too many nights I went to bed well past midnight. So no matter of any shortcomings - at least for me there are aspects that are addictive as a good game should be.
Having said this - I see a majority of my settlement members staying on the sidelines right now. This indicates to me - what is good enough for me isn't necessary interesting enough for others. So trying to take a step back and look at it from this perspective.
This is a sandbox game. It is meant to be driven by players. But this means different things to different people. As pioneer and settlement leader I'm one of the first for which the game has reached MVP. I have a settlement, I have players who want to settle their (eventually). Politics, learning the game, analysing it to have the edge with our settlement, ensuring we deal positive with neighbours, knowing how to help others - all of this I'm doing since week 1 of the landrush and it has given me a purpose - I have 'meaningful game time' even if the game hasn't started yet.
For my members this is different. Unless they want to learn the game or are interested as alpha testers to contribute there isn't much to do for them. There is a wipe coming soon - why bother to play and be wiped.
For all of these players the game needs to start EE to become meaningful. As such the later EE starts - the longer they have time to start other games, lose their interest.
Now this only related to the need of EE for these players to be meaningful. There are reasons to delay for them even if EE starts tomorrow. Some bugs like teleport can be soul destroying. You suddenly spawned half an hour realtime away from your settlement and need to get there first. This is the opposite of meaningful game time.
You can ignore graphics issues, clunky handling, indirect ways to get something done - if you can still do something meaningful. But if it isn't meaningful then you will concentrate on the failings.
One more aspect I realized - a lot of players are not pioneers and builders. For these the first few weeks of PFO will always fail as they need to have player generated contents to have fun - be it players who already craft x or who can tell you how to do y, etc.
This part is worst for PvP. PvP won't be ready until there is something worthwhile to fight for. And this part first needs to be generated by the players.
Summary - the game needs to start as soon as possible to allow settlements to build up economies. Teleport and desync need to be sorted out prior to this as it is just unacceptable.
PvP will be secondary in the first month as there isn't anything to really fight over and destorying the first steps of someone building up might be seen by a few as close to griefing. So the lack of PvP now is no reason to delay the start in my view. But it has to come eventually or the game will get stale once a basic economy has been build.
So ideally I would love if PvP would be possible to be tested in alpha right now - seen as working - switched off for EE and then switched on after a few weeks. Well - everyone can dream.
The direction of the game.
I see a lot of developments and engagement from Paizo and Goblinworks. I had a personal chat with Lisa at GenCon about dungeons and I was very positivly suprised that the Emerald Spire appeared a week ago - even if it is 'non-functional'. It gives me hope there will be a dungeon eventually.
GW is listening. I was one of the people here suggesting higher levels for refining for + items. This has been implemented. Graphics are improving. More contents gets added.
I'm suprised how much it improved since alpha 7 when I first joined. So I'm confident in the direction this game is going. It has a solid foundation.
What you feel are positives and negatives of the game.
Positive:
A good foundation
A great community that tends to welcome people and accepts different play styles
A company that is listening to players and takes suggestions on board
Some aspects of the game that make it addictive to me even at this early state
Negative:
Teleport is unacceptable
Player density too low
Meaningful content limited because of wipe prior to EE
Some GUI aspects are just poor and a turn off
Starting players don't know what to do
Memory and resource intensive game
See suggestions for the game below how to tackle negatives
How you feel about the process of Alpha to EE.
It was great that settlement leaders have been allowed to join alpha. This was invaluable for the active ones (like me) without alpha backers in the alliance to test out the system and to prepare for EE.
I'm less sure if the complete opening of the game was as good. It helped to get more people in - but I feel to many of these didn't distinguish between an unfinished game (alpha) and a game ready to start.
It produced a lot of feedback - but it also produced a lot of negativity. I hope it didn't discourage too many players. I know from my son who tried early and then didn't wanted to play again for several weeks - but now was very happy again with a more advanced game and more he felt he could do.
Other players might not necessarily come back that easily.
Suggestions for the game.
This is a folllow up on the negatives
The teleport needs to be fixed prior to EE - no discussion here
Player density and more meaningful play: Start EE. This should fix the player density and the lack of meaningful play.
GUI: Include a filter in the AH that lets you find only auctions with something to sell. I timed it and it takes me 5-8 minutes to check the listings of all recipes to find 2-5 that I like to buy. I should be able to do this in <1 minute with a better GUI option.
Overall look at GUI from a player view. If I need a spreadsheet to advance (which of my recipes is common, uncommon) then something is missing in the game. Doing everything to try out is not an option.
New players: This is something where both experienced players and GW can help. The announced help channel will be a great step in the right direction. GM features as well. Other players already try to help by building spreadsheets, give advice in the general channel, advice their own settlements, generate open accessible webpages. But this needs a commitement from GW at start of EE and can't be left to players alone.
Memory and resources: Not sure if code can be optimized. But a laptop that is at 80% of max CPU during the sign in screen does seem something not necessary is being done. This game has attracted a number of non-MMO players. Not everyone is willing to buy a new computer just to play PFO.
Time lines for what you feel should be added.
Start of EE as soon as possible. A filter for the auction house - don't undertand why this isn't the default anyhow only to show what is available.
PvP should be ready for EE +4 to EE +6 weeks. Off course there is a danger if it isn't ready at EE that you miss the timeline.
Anything pressing about the game that you feel needs to be addressed.
The AH filter - or a reason why it is too difficult to implement. Ryan said once he would want it himself but the programmers felt it unnecessary. I haven't seen a single poster yet agreeing with that. So just be a boss and overrule them on this tiny detail.
What you feel is MVP.
A game that I have fun playing and that allows me to build up Emerald Lodge persistent.
A game that doesn't crash / teleport.
A game that allows you to populate the sandbox
A solid foundation
What you feel ins't MVP.
All bells and whistles
Optimizing of some parameters
Basically anything pertaining to the game.
Enough said already
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Goblin Squad Member
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Some observations that don't match the OP's list, and are really just very personal observations/thoughts/opinions:
There seems to be little Golarion in PFO. I agree with everything Dogan said.
I have no understanding of the point of War of Towers, in game or as a out of game-world game player strategy.
Esoteric character advancement is a turnoff.
Life is Feudal looks beautiful but is about as interesting as watching a hole get dug.
I want to find a bug log. What kind of bugs are edible, and can any be used to make dyes?
I am amazed folks find crafting a positive.
If combat is clunky, just what are folks looking at.
I tried to find a game to watch on Twitch two nights ago, but I couldn't find any PFO.
I am waiting for Obsidian to NWNerise Pathfinder/Golarion. I want to run a Slayer/Occultist or Inquisitor. Like in Pathfinder. To run around more than the prosaic River Kingdoms. This does not mean I should not post here or that I have not paid attention to the blog (which I haven't) or the aims of the KS. I hoped for a closer emulation of Pathfinder. This is not Pathfinder, only Online. It is something else again. River Kingdoms Online - as there is such a focus on Settlements. Which bore me.
Emerald Spire was a ho-humic adventure "superdungeon" so I'm not enthused by its inclusion here, but dungeon delving is a fantastic addition, currently functional or not
Just because I have left spaces between my points doesn't give them graivitas or a sensible reason for existing, but they are visually clearer.
I wish the graphics were better. Much better.
Some folks are very good at saying quite negative things. I am not one of them.
Good luck.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not an MMO player, I'm a Pathfinder player. I'm also older and don't play many computer games, so some of my thoughts may be different than most.
1) Character customization: A big part of what I like in Pathfinder is creating a character. In PFO there is basically no customization at the start. You get a few choices of hair color and body type for each race and that's it. My daughter has more options on her 3DS Harvest Moon game. I would love to be able to take hours customizing my character so I don't look like everyone else that is playing a male elf.
2) Trees: Like I said I'm not an MMO player, but I'm already sick of the trees. They are always in my way. I get stuck and have to turn way away from my path to get around them and they seem to funnel me towards monster groups that I can't beat on my own. You should just slide off them if you run into them.
3) Monsters: There seems to be two types of encounters: easy to defeat foes and foes that kill me very quickly with nothing in between. Another problem is that the monsters teleport. Once they give up on chasing someone, they teleport back to their original location, surprising anyone who was standing in a safe area one second and then surrounded by a large group of monsters the next. Also, monsters are able to reach places players can’t, especially around mountain terrain.
4) Travel: My settlement is way away from any starter town. I shouldn't have to spend two hours of real time just to travel between a starter town and my settlement. If you add in the 'blocking trees' and other terrain changes it takes forever to get where I want to go. There needs to be mounts or teleportation gates or something. Another thing that makes travelling difficult is the limited amount of spaces where a player can pass through mountains. Instead of being able to head straight towards a destination, you have to go out of your way to find a passage that you can actually cross.
5) Party mechanics: There needs to be a better way to find friends to join a party and to communicate and keep track of party members while playing.
6) Chat: You should be able to scroll back on the chat screen. You should have buttons where you can call up a 'whisper window' instead of having to use commands and re-type a character's name every time you want to say something.
7) It doesn’t have anything to do with pathfinder. I came to PFO through the Pathfinder RPG and had hoped it would have something to do with the RPG.
8) WoW: I’ve watched my daughter and son play World of Warcraft and it has more options and better graphics with a cost that is the same or less than PFO does, and I’m expected to start paying for PFO in the not too distant future?
9) Small Text: Most of the text in the game is too small to read. You can’t even see the text that says you’re too far away from something until you get closer.
10) Mini Map: The guards are labelled as monsters, which is confusing if you’re looking at the mini map. Also, if you’re in a party and a member of your party leaves the area shown in the mini map, they just disappear.
All the above being said, I still have hopes that PFO will pull through, but I begin to wonder if it has enough to bring in and keep people before everyone moves on to something else.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My apologies for the second post but I wanted to emphasize something said by Kelpie Previously as I think it is really that important.
"- the MVP branding. I think it breeds complacency, laziness and an acceptance of mediocrity. I'm worried that the statement 'it's good enough for MVP' has infected goblinworks. "
I can not help but wonder if they had concentrated on the best possible product and set their goals higher instead of setting the goal on the minimum possible product if the game might be in better shape right now.
Goblinworks Founder
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I hear you, Mourn Blackhand: I don't play MMOs, I play Pathfinder RPG.
I'm enormously annoyed with PFO right now. I want to be out there bashing goblins. I can only take one goblin at a time, otherwise I die. Instead I'm messing around trying to make ... woollen mittens (actually I'm trying to make a longbow and some armour. It's so boooorinnng!)
PFO is a serious disappointment. I want to play a game not stuff about on such minute trivia! I just don't have the time to waste on this inane make-work.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hear you, Mourn Blackhand: I don't play MMOs, I play Pathfinder RPG.
I'm enormously annoyed with PFO right now. I want to be out there bashing goblins. I can only take one goblin at a time, otherwise I die. Instead I'm messing around trying to make ... woollen mittens (actually I'm trying to make a longbow and some armour. It's so boooorinnng!)
PFO is a serious disappointment. I want to play a game not stuff about on such minute trivia! I just don't have the time to waste on this inane make-work.
That does not sound right.
Unless you are just running up with no armor and whacking them with a starter club even a new character with only starting XP should not have any trouble with groups of goblins.
Hints:
Without armor you need ranged attacks for mobs. Start with the free shortbow (girl near rogue trainer gives you one) and train distant shot to shoot from 35m. Snipe away.
Now look for one of three things to drop:
1. heavy armor - allows you to survive melee
2. longbow - works like the shortbow with distant shot, only more damage
3. wizard staff - best weapon for a beginner, train wilting surge and wraiths cry and drop entire mobs in one or two hits