The Kineticist, The Medium, and the Scorned Classes

[Helcack]

I like Kineticist because I like at will magic, I like the Occultist because I like the following: Supernatural, Dresden Files, Constantine. I like the Medium because channeling spirits and getting their powers is hella rad, although I would prefer their spells to be at will and for them to get less of them that's just because I loved the 3.5 Binder.

[graystone]

Myself, it was a combo of limited time to read the playtest and liking the class but seeing a lot that needs fixed. Kineticist needed some love before I moved on to other classes. The other classes looked more or less ok after a quick skim. I plan to move on to the Medium next after the Kineticist gets ironed out.

Cranky Bastard wrote:

Kineticist - most people immediate think Avatar. I think El Hazaard. Miz Mishtal, Shayla-Shayla, and Afura Mann have long needed love beyond being shoehorned into magery and/or sorcery.

Those work, but Kaze no Stigma is what I first thought of. ;)

[Psyren]

Kineticist is also the first class in the playtest document, so it will naturally get a lot of attention. Psychic by contrast is the last one.

People here like at-will magic and warlocks. People also like Con-based casting (if it can be balanced well, which it seems is being done here.) And lastly, people like Avatar:TLA. I don't see anything wrong with lavishing attention on the Kineticist. I for one am choosing to focus on the Psychic.

[Romanus]

The Game Master wrote:

Since the playtest began, I have started to notice a (unfortunate) trend. Out of all of the classes, the Kineticist has gained the most attention, followed up by the Medium.

But, why?

In reading posts and the actual classes themselves, I think most people are put off by the Spiritualist, Psychic, Mesmerist, and Occultist because they have the least "fantasy fullfillment", as opposed to the Kineticist. The Medium brings forth this strange and unique opportunity to become, I daresay, the most versatile class (with work).
The Kineticist allows people to further various roleplaying fantasies, such as playing characters from various shows. That is at the core of roleplaying, fantasy fullfillment.
I respect all of the new classes, and yes they all have a basis for inspiration, but I feel they are all overshadowed by the popularity of The Kineticist and Medium.

Do you believe there is a flavor issue? Maybe an overwhelming difference in playstyle? Maybe there is simply more to fix with the Kineticist and Medium? What are your thoughts?

Kineticist has a vibe which works for my love of superheroes and some anime and takes me back to my Saturday morning cartoons in the 80s. I've playtested it and it was a fun character.

For me personally, I'm not all that interested in the Mesmerist, in PFS I've encountered way too many animals, undead, and other stuff to want to devote time and energy into a class which could potentially be useless in my encounters.

Psychic was a big "yawn" for me mostly because I played a lot of psionic characters back in the day. I had the same reactions someone else posted on here, it's a sorcerer with a different spell selection. Didn't really draw me in, although in some ways it's better written than the kineticist.

Spiritualist, Occultist, Medium all honestly go against my own personal views and I won't even consider playing them. Sorry, not messing around with characters who are locked into that kind of stuff. It's a personal choice for me, but an answer to your question. I was cringing the entire time I read those classes.

[Lavawight]

Not that I question your personal views or reasons for not playing those classes, and I can definitely see Spiritualist and Medium making some people cringe, but Occultist is pretty different in theme from those two. Occultist is a focus-themed caster-lite, and I've seen Harry Dresden and even Hellboy given as possible examples of Occultists, and arguably the movie version of John Constantine.

[mplindustries]

There's definitely something to this. The Kineticist is only technically psychic. Most people just see Avatar or Anime or Master of the Unseen hand. Psychic stuff is a small niche, and kineticist is the one class that transcends that niche into other kinds of fantasy.

Combine that with the fact that the kineticist is, mechanically, a reskinned 3.5 warlock plus the burn thing added on top, and you get all the people who loved the warlock, which was immensely popular because, let's face it, most people only tolerate vancian magic. More hate it than actively like it.

In a similar vein, I also wager people strongly associate psychics in d&d with spellpoints. Outside of a setting like Dark Sun, I wonder how much traction psionics would really have had over the years if it was still vancian in 2e/3rd, just like spells.

I know, for example, my groups were big into psionics, but only because we hate vancian casting. We could not care less about the flavor or alternate powers of psionics, we just don't want the pressure to memorize what we want ahead of time.

The other classes, including Medium, which I think is just complicated, not especially popular, are just reskinned magic. They don't get spell points like "classic" 3e psionicists and don't let you copy awesome cartoons or free yourselves from the shackles of Jack Vance's tedious system.

So, yeah, kineticist is out of place and that's precisely why it's the most popular.

[Vrog Skyreaver]

I think there are plenty of people who don't mind vancian spellcasting. I know it doesn't bother me in the slightest, and I enjoy the task of trying to figure out what spells will be needed for a given day.

That aside, however, I do think it's possible to replicate more types of characters using the kineticist (superman), medium (vodoun), or occultist (I'm surprised that no one mentioned green lantern as a occultist, cause it fits really well) than it is with the standard pathfinder classes.

[Romanus]

Lavawight wrote:

Not that I question your personal views or reasons for not playing those classes, and I can definitely see Spiritualist and Medium making some people cringe, but Occultist is pretty different in theme from those two. Occultist is a focus-themed caster-lite, and I've seen Harry Dresden and even Hellboy given as possible examples of Occultists, and arguably the movie version of John Constantine.

It's nothing to do with game mechanics as much as the flavor of the class. I'm kinda averse at this point to the whole "occult/made up ceremonial magick" thing. *shudder*

plus I admit that the more I thought about it, it really was just another way to be an arcane caster. "Hey look, I'm carrying a big staff and am an evoker". Meh. Didn't speak to me as a class. But it's not as creepy to me as the spiritualist and medium now that I think about it.

And if you see me here, please, never be afraid to question me. I encourage you from time to time, and always in a respectful manner, to question my logic. If you're unconvinced a particular post if mines is the wisest, tell me so, but allow me to convince you, and I promise you, right here and now, no subject will ever be taboo.... Yes, I just went all O-Ren.

[Lavawight]

Admittedly, I had no interest at all in Occultist until I saw the Dresden possibilities. Possession creeps me the hell out, so I sympathize about Medium, but Spiritualist struck me more like Beyond: Two Souls that came out a while ago, or like Tesla from Clive Barker's Everville. Still little to no interest, though.