I want to create a necromancer for Society play, but I'm unsure on what the best/better options are.
What are good classes and archetypes to use?
What are the spells I want to use and how do they work?
I plan to use False Focus and Blood Money to cover most costs.
You are going to have no luck doing so. If I recall correctly, in Golarion (the default world for PFS) use of animate dead and raising corpses to fight for you is an innately evil act. PFS from what I've heard does not allow you to play evil characters (probably to lessen any chances of inter party conflicts).
There was at one point a single solitary way to do so that wasn't "evil" (the old Juju oracle) but is has since been replaced with a newer version that removed that ability from PFS play. I'd suggest coming up with another concept sadly.
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A friend of mine is playing a Reanimator Alchemist and just got his zombies... He also spent every scenario collecting body parts and healing people if they signed a contract to donate their bodies when they die.
I think necromancy is incredibly controversial and that the jury is still out on the subject. For this, let's say necromancers are allowed in Society.
I think Blood Money is barred too. So maybe a Dirge Bard? Same necromancy flavour, less evil.
A friend of mine is playing a Reanimator Alchemist and just got his zombies... He also spent every scenario collecting body parts and healing people if they signed a contract to donate their bodies when they die.
I think necromancy is incredibly controversial and that the jury is still out on the subject. For this, let's say necromancers are allowed in Society.
Ah so you are playing at one of the more lenient tables, lucky.
The bump from desecrate on your minions when you create them inside the area is nice. For that reason alone clerics are probably my favored necromancer option, though it is also on an oracles spell list.
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Basics to a decent PFS necromancy is to roll s imiliar to the necromancy wizard guide in the zenith guides.
First I would like to know what kind of necromancy?
Arcane or divine?
Class preference.
Take in mind all minions disappear between sessions.
To counter the loss of minions a strategy I like to do is:
Focus on necromancy...cast magic jar....use the victim to clear other threats till he dies and you have a nice body count. Animate the fresh corpses and push them deeper in to eliminate the next room. Basically its a snowball effect. You can buy a wand of lesser restoration and blood money your material componite if you need. Sometimes on chronically sheets you can find a used wand of lesser restoration. 8 or less charges can be bought with PP.
Because you loose your minions I feel its better to be prepared for that fact.
For the love of Nethys do not play a cleric if you are going to be an "army" necromancer. The gold cost will be astronomical over the long run, but with False Focus if you are an arcane caster you could easily raise armies of burning bloody 1hd skeletons (the majority I figure of your "minions.")
If you intend to make more powerful than 1HD minions then clerics become extremely viable, if you're going to go with the army then not having to pay for expenditures below 100 gp is a definite plus.
As for a society it can exist and such societies do exist, albeit they are mostly undead societies. The whole being undead part does not sit well with most "civilized" positive energy based people, so these places are usually targets for adventurers and armies.
One of the major reasons animate dead is not allowed in society, regardless of what stipulations Paizo gives, is the power creep. Any necromancer worth his salt will have bloody skeletons at the least, and once he realizes he can have an army of bloody burning skeletons following him around ~FOR FREE if he is arcane~ the entire reason to not animate these beings is removed. If they die from positive energy damage or on hollowed ground it doesn't matter.
Bloody Burning 1hd skeletons are CR 1, at level 7 as a wizard you can cast Animate Dead, and at that level you can control 28 skeletons at the minimum. 28*400=11,200 CR 11 encounter is 12,800 XP.
So the real reason Animate Dead is banned is because it simply turns you into a godly character unless there is a good cleric in the piece of content, which, considering PFS focuses on defeating evil people, is unlikely.
Not to mention you could be an Arcanist Occultist who can have an army following him around and drop fire immune summons onto the field to tip the scale even worse in your favor.
. . . The whole being undead part does not sit well with most "civilized" positive energy based people, so these places are usually targets for adventurers and armies. . . .
Uhhmmm... fight fire with fire?
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One of the major reasons animate dead is not allowed in society
When was it banned? On archives of Nethys it says its not. Are you confusing no evil alignment with evil descriptor spells? You can come up with neutral reasons to animate dead.Spare parts...saving your groups health, not wasting resources, trap fodder. If you use ththem for good purpose and destroy them after you can come out with looking neutral.
Just reanimate only Evil creatures, and call it "preserving the balance".
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Animate Dead, the spell, is not banned in PF society. Even further, it is explicitly stated in the PFS guidebook that casting [evil] spells is NOT considered an evil act in PFS. So yes, you can be neutral and cast animate dead just fine in PFS. PFS dose, however, go a long way to make a necromancer's life anything but easy, though. The main reason animate dead is so powerful is that your minions are permanent, in PFS, there is a houserule that makes them not permanent which is why most people don't want to play a necromancer in PFS. Due to the houserules on animate dead, the spell is turned from a way to get a permanent army of minions to a very, very expensive summon monster spell that lasts all day rather then rounds/level. Thus, while cleric and oracle necromancers are powerful outside of PFS, inside PFS you pretty much have to be an arcane spellcaster(Or an ancient lorekeeper oracle, which requires you to be a sup-optimal race(elf) for your class...Sadly PF houserules prevent you taking that archtype as a half-elf like you could normally.) if you want to focus on undead animating since Animate Dead is simply not viable in PFS without access to the spell Blood Money. The fact your minions are not permanent makes things just too expensive otherwise.
So, seeing that, you really have three options(baring ancient lorekeeper Oracle) for an animation-focused necromancer: Wizard, Arcaneist and Sorcerer. In general, the choice really comes down to what you value more, versatility or the ability to utilize intelligent undead as minions. If you value versatility, then wizard or arcaneist is the best route. If you go with an arcanist, be sure to pick the archtype that gives you a wizard school(School Savant, I think it was?) as without it you'll have no way to control undead outside of animating them.(The wizard school gives you the ability to command undead like a cleric who took the feat.) If you prefer making the best use of intelligent undead possible, go for a Sorcerer as the undead bloodline arcana lets you use mind effecting spells(like, say, dominate person) on undead. Arcanist can also pick up the arcana with an archtype, but be warned that you loose out on a TON of your exploits if you take that archtype, and have them replaced with the so-so powers of the Undead Bloodline. So generally what you lose from is is not worth what you gain.
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So, seeing that, you really have three options(baring ancient lorekeeper Oracle) for an animation-focused necromancer: Wizard, Arcaneist and Sorcerer. In general, the choice really comes down to what you value more, versatility or the ability to utilize intelligent undead as minions. If you value versatility, then wizard or arcaneist is the best route. If you go with an arcanist, be sure to pick the archtype that gives you a wizard school(School Savant, I think it was?) as without it you'll have no way to control undead outside of animating them.(The wizard school gives you the ability to command undead like a cleric who took the feat.) If you prefer making the best use of intelligent undead possible, go for a Sorcerer as the undead bloodline arcana lets you...
Command Undead the feat is pretty useless for necromancers to be honest. I mean it allows a save (based on your CHA no less) and only gets you a pitiable amount of HD = to your cleric level. However, Command Undead the spell is the real hero. No save for mindless undead which is all you can animate anyway and no HD caps or limited number of commanded undead. Control truly massive hordes of mindless Undead with Extended Command Undead (use a metamagic rod) since it's base duration is *days* per level. So really the big things to look for are Command Undead (the spell), Animate Dead, and a means of getting Desecration. I usually use a single Voidstick for easy access to Desecration, though I don't know if that is PFS legal.
Based on Takhisis's point about animate dead you should never play a divine necromancer in PFS, but instead play an arcane one due to False Focus. It costs you nothing to animate dead, well, aside from Pharasma maybe intentionally sending you to Abbadon, Hell, or the Abyss just out of spite—she sort of has a thing against raising the undead.
So, wait, Raise Undead isn't banned in PFS?
Really? That is a terrible mistake on Paizo's part—say "no evil" and yet make the very reason for being evil completely legit. I wonder if Paladins insta-fall due to working with EVIL creatures if they are in the group considering mindless skeletons and zombies are neutral evil, but I digress.
If I ever play PFS and get high enough I'm totally playing a necromancer maxed out on what he can do with the spell.
I have a Bone Oracle that does this. Really High Charisma but he is REALLY creepy lol.
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I will agree that command undead the spell is worthwhile for mindless undead. However, for intelligent undead you will need command undead or thè undead bloodline arcana. Now, in standard play using command undead(the feat) on intelligent undead is a lousy idea for every class sans Oracle since they get a new save each day. However.,. This is not standard play... It is PFS. That same houserule that nerfs animate dead actually strengthens the command undead feat because it applies to all undead minions you have, not just the ones you create with animate dead. Thus using command undead the feat to seize control of the intelligent undead you encounter actually becomes viable because you will only have them for a day at most anyway meaning the drawback of the feat(daily saves) is effectively negated.
However...if you REALLY want to have intelligent undead as minions you should honestly suck it up and play a sorcerer with the undead bloodline. Dominate person and similar spells on undead are far superior a control method to both the command undead feat and spell ... So when it comes to intelligent undead sorcerers truly are the masters.
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False Focus can be used on any spell. It just needs an arcane spell as a prerequisite. Any racial SLA means a divine caster qualifies for False Focus and can use it on their divine spells.
Bone Oracles get access to the necromancer-used spells earlier than the arcane and cleric counterparts but lack in spellcasting outside of that area, such as when in non-undead areas like cities. Their winning points are the Command Undead revelation, Raise The Dead revelation, and necromancer spells early.
Necromancer Wizards also get the Command Undead channel feat, but lose in that their needed stats are seperate; Int and Cha. They also have a big advantage of getting Blood Money and other spells for adventures not involving undead.
Undead Sorcerer has the biggest spellcasting advantage by using spells that are useful in and out of undead areas. They also get Blood Money. Unfortunately, they can't get the Command Undead Feat which needs levels as well as Charisma.
Undead Blood Arcanist takes the biggest advantages of each and can use them all; Undead arcana and Undead School. Its disadvantages come from problems balancing all of the spells and uses, and along with the other arcane casters, receives the Necromancer spells late. If it drops its defenses, it can use the Int and Cha stats very well.
The last contender is the Undead Cleric. It gains the Necromancer spells later than Oracle but earlier than the arcane casters. It can take the Command Undead feat as well. Its disadvantages come from using two stats again (Wis and Cha), a constrained spell list, roleplaying requirements, and no Blood Money. It makes up for this easily by being able to heal all Undead that it controls. This means the cleric doesn't need to rely on all of their spells to maintain undead control and animation, opening the spell list for more versatility.
These all sound right?
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It dose, except for several key points. First of all, the Blood Arcanist is a sup-par option from an optimization standpoint for arcanists. It takes away a bunch of your exploits for bloodline powers that work off a stat you'd normally be dumping(cha), and then has the gall to not provide you with the bonus spells from your bloodline. Arcanists still make great necromancers, don't get me wrong, but your not going to be a Blood Arcanist unless you have a very high point buy and access to items that boost both cha and int at the same time. An Arcanist Necromancer is better served by being a School Savant, taking the Undead sub-school of the Necromancy school, as you still get the command undead feat, plus several other useful abilities that work off your primary stat(Int) as well as bonus spells prepared AND more exploits then a Blood Arcanist. You function pretty much the same as a necro wizard, except with exploits and the awesome arcanist spellcasting mechanic.
As a result, if your want to use the Undead Bloodline Arcana, you are much better served by being a Sorcerer then an Arcanist from an OP standpoint. Mainly because your bloodline powers as a Blood Arcanist will be nigh-useless due to not having strong enough saves(You'll never get the cha to make them worthwhile in PFS...the point buy is too low without Peri-Blooded Aasimiar being in play and items that boost both int and cha will be hard to come by with the lack of high level play and ban on crafting.), but also because Sorc has a few other advantages. The most noteworthy one is that Sorcerers can have stronger enchantment save DCs(and thus be better at controlling intelligent undead) then an arcanist with minimal-no feat investment if you play a Kitsune and use their favored class bonus. If you never take a single spell focus enchantment, but use the favored class bonus from Kitsune for every level your lookng at having +3 to your enchantment DCs at level 11 on top of your charisma, and this is with 0 feat investment. If you take spell foci in enchantment, this becomes even stronger, meaning that you'll be the absolute best at commanding intelligent undead, bar none. Even further, the secondary role of enchanter gives you something to do when undead aren't a viable option. Another good thing about sorcs is that the Razmirian Priest/False Priest archtype is extremely good for a necro sorc, as it both gives you false focus as a bonus feat for free at 1st level, and also gives you some very useful bonuses to UMD and the use of divine wands and scrolls, which is extremely helpful if you plan on using Blood Money in conjunction with wands/scrolls of restoration and similar spells.
Also, your incorrect on one point on Cleric vs. Oracle. Clerics actually get animate dead BEFORE Bones Oracles, though Oracles are still better at Necromancy overall due to the fact they use the same stat for casting and commanding undead and have the ability to acquire normally arcane exclusive spells like the much-lauded Blood Money via paragon surge abuse and/or the ancient lorekeeper archtype. They also, unlike clerics and arcane necromancers, can learn both blood money and restoration, allowing them to use blood money with impunity without the need for wands/scrolls and UMD.
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It dose, except for several key points. First of all, the Blood Arcanist is a sup-par option from an optimization standpoint for arcanists. It takes away a bunch of your exploits for bloodline powers that work off a stat you'd normally be dumping(cha), and then has the gall to not provide you with the bonus spells from your bloodline. Arcanists still make great necromancers, don't get me wrong, but your not going to be a Blood Arcanist unless you have a very high point buy and access to items that boost both cha and int at the same time. An Arcanist Necromancer is better served by being a School Savant, taking the Undead sub-school of the Necromancy school, as you still get the command undead feat, plus several other useful abilities that work off your primary stat(Int) as well as bonus spells prepared AND more exploits then a Blood Arcanist. You function pretty much the same as a necro wizard, except with exploits and the awesome arcanist spellcasting mechanic.
As a result, if your want to use the Undead Bloodline Arcana, you are much better served by being a Sorcerer then an Arcanist from an OP standpoint. Mainly because your bloodline powers as a Blood Arcanist will be nigh-useless due to not having strong enough saves(You'll never get the cha to make them worthwhile in PFS...the point buy is too low without Peri-Blooded Aasimiar being in play and items that boost both int and cha will be hard to come by with the lack of high level play and ban on crafting.), but also because Sorc has a few other advantages. The most noteworthy one is that Sorcerers can have stronger enchantment save DCs(and thus be better at controlling intelligent undead) then an arcanist with minimal-no feat investment if you play a Kitsune and use their favored class bonus. If you never take a single spell focus enchantment, but use the favored class bonus from Kitsune for every level your lookng at having +3 to your enchantment DCs at level 11 on top of your charisma, and this is with 0 feat investment. If you take spell foci in...
You make a lot of extremely good points and correct me on much. Thank you.
Luckily, I have a few grandfathered Level 1 Aasimars.
Won't the School Understanding exploit get the needed power so taking the School Savant archetype is unneeded? Also, I don't need an optimized arcanist; I need an optimized necromancer. I have no problem trading exploits for, essentially, a wizard with the undead arcana. Do I still have this wrong?
and Headband of Mental Prowess? A Headband of Vast Intelligence or Alluring Charisma can upgrade right into it.
But regardless, which of the classes and archetypes should I even bother considering? What are the real advantages and disadvantages of each in the long run?
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Ummm..Even with 16 starting cha, you'll be losing a lot of thunder on your bloodline abilites as a blood arcanist as you level up. The reason I don't recomend Blood Arcanist, even with the undead arcana, is because while you are a necromancer, you'll also need be at least a semi-compitent member of your class. Sometimes, you have to do something other then Necromancy, and as an arcanist you are expected to be able to fill the role of "arcane fullcaster" in addition to that of "Necromancer." Unlike 3.5e's dread necromancer class, you are not a hyper-specalized character. Yes, your specalized in necromancy, but unlike the DN you don't get tons and tons of class features that make your hyper specalization into something extremely powerful and, likewise, since your not a class like Dread Necromancer, other players will be expecting you to do more then Necromancy. At least in 3.5e, when you where playing a dread necromancer people didn't expect you do do anything other then necromancy because thats really all you could do(while that and melee at low levels anyway.)
As an arcanist, other players will expect you to be able to do more then just be a necromancer. Your class is all about versatility and as a result when you sit down at that PFS table full of strangers those strangers will be expecting you to be able to play the role of arcanist as well as necromancer. Telling them "Sorry...I have all necromancy spells prepared and my 0 useful class features because I took Blood Arcanist and don't have high cha" is not a good enough excuse in many player's minds for failing to fulfill at least the basic functions of an arcane caster when playing a class, like arcanist, that is all about being versatile. Thus, while you can specialize in necromancy, you will also have to be at least semi-competent at doing -something else- beyond necromancy; whether that be acting as God Wizard, being a buffer/debuffer, having utility spells at the ready or something else entirely is up to you but you have to remember; your not a Dread Necromancer, your not a death mage. You have versatility and will be expected to use it.
A Blood Arcanist with the undead bloodline, in most instances, is not even semi-competent at being an arcanist unless built with an ungodly high point buy played in a game with FAST, AND I MEAN FAST access to + cha & + int items, and trust me, your access in PFS will not be fast enough. You essentially trade away a vast chunk of your exploits, which, IMO, are the main thing that keep you on par with wizards, for a ton of abilities that will literally be 100% absolutely and totally useless to you due to having crap for save DCs. Let me put it this way; Playing a Blood Arcanist is essentially playing a sorcerer with no class features except his bloodline arcana, but the ability to switch out his spells known each day. If having virtually no class features what-so-ever other then the undead bloodline arcana and your spellcasting is not too much a sacrifice for you, then by all means, go ahead and play a Blood Arcanist with the Undead Bloodline. However...a very competent and powerful Arcanist Necromancer can be made without the Blood Arcanist archtype, and thus actual useful class features beyond the undead bloodline arcana and his spellcasting...and seeing this there really becomes no reason to take Blood Arcanist beyond some kind of strange RP concept that would be best left for home games with friends instead of the combat-focused world of PFS in which you play with total strangers who may not be as kind to the guy playing a very poorly optimized character "For RP!" as a group of friends would.(and don't get me wrong, I love my under-optimized RP builds, and they can work in PFS to an extent, you just have to balance the RP with some level of playability...the main one I am guilty of is taking 14 cha on wizards/arcanists/prepared int-based casters, dumping wisdom along with str something high level OPers would consider a sin since wis is "more useful" then cha, but I like social skills and I enjoy charismatic geniuses, and I still get my post racial 18 int and can run away with 14 dex and 12-14 con depending on how much str I decide to lose, which means I still have a very playable wizard/arcanist despite the fact he invested in an ability score high-end OPers consider a waste for his class.)
As for the school understanding exploit, it's OK, but again, not optimal, since the school powers you get are level 1 and don't actually level; you'll be commanding undead as a level 1 wizard at level 20 if you use that exploit for the necromancy school UNLESS you spend points from your arcane pool to boost the level of your school powers.
School savant, meanwhile, gives you the actual school, with the full ability to command undead without having to spend pool points, and even further gives you bonus spells prepared, which, for an arcanist is a godsend as they are the most strapped for spells prepared-per day of any caster class. A school savant arcanist necromancer is essentially a Necromancer wizard BUT with extra class features and the arcanist spellcasting mechanic, which actually makes it a better necromancer then a straight-up necromancer wizard in my mind, and since you get to keep more of your exploits and get class features that are actually useful to you(wizard school powers work off of int, not cha, meaning they'll actually have strong enough save DCs to be worth using, and you'll have plenty of uses per-day), making School Savant LEAGUES more competent at being a general arcanist then a Blood arcanist with the undead bloodline will ever hope to be, while also remaining an optimized necromancer on par, if not better then a necromancer wizard at what he does.
As for all the options, it depends on what you value as a necromancer. I will advise against any divine class that isn't oracle for PFS due to the animate dead houserules. That leaves the following classes, which I'll break down pros and cons with below..
Necromancy Specalist Wizard
Pros:
- You get your spells faster then any other arcane caster; and have plenty of spells per-day during your carrier.
- Command Undead feat for free which allows you to make use of intelligent undead with impunity due to PFS houserules making command undead's drawback(daily saves) a non-issue
- Spell Focus(Necromancy) as a free feat from PFS houserules allows you to save feat room for other things and makes qualifying for feats easier
- The Necromancer's Anthema, which you can get as a bonded item, is pretty darn awesome, and makes a Necromancer Wizard a VERY versatile caster....as of now, there is no way for non-wizards to pick this up.
- Versatility: As a wizard, you can do tons of stuff. Even being "specalized" in necromancy, you will be able to do a whole lot more then just necromancy. You are a tier 1 class. Take this for what you will.
- You have Access to the spell Blood Money and the feat False Focus, which can negate the main drawback of animate dead in PF society: the GP cost.
Cons:
- MAD: A Necromancer wizard needs some cha to use command undead, and cha is usually a dump stat for wizards. You only need 14 since feats can pick up the slack, but that means you'll have to lose out on some places, most likely wisdom, and you quite possibly may have to go down to 7 str if your one of those people who think anything less then 14 con is a sin.(though in all honestly you can live with 12 con just fine as a wizard...it won't hurt you at all.)
- Other then the necromancer's anthema, everything you can do can be done by an arcanist, and the arcanist can do other things that you can't.(You do however get your spells faster then them, and get more casts per-day then an arcanist...so thats something I guess. Oh, and the Necromancer's anthema is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY good...seriously, go look that thing up.)
Undead Bloodline Sorcerer
Pros:
- The Undead Bloodline Arcana is an AMAZING ability for a necromancer. You get to dominate intelligent undead without the command undead feat. Thats right. No mucking around with saves off a dumb stat, you just use your spell DCs against those intelligent undead. This ability is honestly THE reason to play an undead bloodline sorcerer, it's that good for a necromancer character.
- Tons of spells per-day
- Access to Blood Money, which is good for you for the same reasons it's good for wizards
- Use Magic Device as a class skill, plus cha as your casting stat means you'll be able to make UMD checks reliably, which in turn allows you to negate the main drawback of blood money by using wands of restoration and simmilar spells
- Access to the False Focus feat
- Access to the Razmirian Priest/False Priest archtype which gives you False Focus as a bonus feat, freeing up other feat slots. The archtype also grants you some very useful bonuses that help with using divine wands/scrolls, which as a necromancer can be useful for you you(Restoration to offset blood money ability drain, scrolls of desecrate for the time before you can afford better desecrate items etc...)
- If your an Otaku like me and like your Japanese mythology and moe fox girls, Kitsune is actually an optimal race for you. Yeah, this may not actually be a pro for you, but it is for me so I'm listing it because why not.
Cons:
- Limited spells known means less versatility; you won't be able to do nearly as many cool things as a wizard or arcanist will and will have nowhere near as many spells that you know.
- Slower spell access then wizard
- Other then the Bloodline Arcana, the Undead Bloodline's powers are rather underwhelming. They arn't totally useless, mind you, but they are nothing to write home about either.(Note that an archtype can mitigate this by swapping out some of your more meh bloodline powers for more useful features; rasimirian priest/false priest and tattooed sorcerer are both great archtypes for a necromancer, and if you want to deal with traps you could even consider seeker)
- Your bloodline spell list regrettably includes some real stinkers and is generally not the best. There are some gems there, though so not all is lost.
School Savant Arcanist
Pros:
- You have all the school powers of a necromancy specalist wizard, including the ever important command undead ability; you can literally do everything a necromancy specalizt wizard can do other then anthema shenanigans ON TOP of having arcanist exploits and other class features Oh, and just to rub salt into the wound, you can get an arcane bond just like a wizard.
- Versatility- Like a wizard, you can do a lot of things. Even further, your spellcasting mechanic is even more versatile then a wizard's. You are the undisputed king of versatility and (arguably) the most powerful class in the entire game.
- Access to Blood Money and False Focus
- Access to UMD as a class skill, and unlike wizards you have some(not so optimal) uses for charisma beyond command undead. You will be able to reliably make UMD checks to get that wand of restoration online and negating the drawback of blood money.
Cons:
- You have the worst spells per-day and "spells known" progression of any arcane caster; you get your spells at the same speed as a sorcerer, but have less casts per-day then even a wizard.
- MAD: Like the wizard, you want both Int and Cha, as command undead needs some cha to be useful. In addition UMD and some of your class features want cha as well.
- While you can poach the Bloodline Arcana of the Undead Bloodline Sorc, doing so requires a sacrifice that significantly gimps/harms your character's viability as a member of their class.
and those are the main three arcane caster classes that can be necromancers in pathfinder society. If your interested in the pros/cons of Oracles and Dirge archtype Bards, I can post those up too. Hope that helped some.
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Hmm... Thank you for your points. I too am an otaku but prefer the moe characters be played by my girlfriend :P
I am interested in the Oracle pros and cons, but most importantly, I still have no idea how the spells work exactly. The spells I need to know how they work are:
Animate Dead, Lesser
Animate Dead
Create Undead
Create Greater Undead
I need to know everything about these spells and how they work. If I cast one, what are all the mechanics going into these?
EDIT: Also, what are the spells would a caster with the Undead arcana use instead of those?
Completely third party here can you do the dirge bard lol I love bards more than other casters
Dunno why lol
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Animate Dead : Lesser is the simplest raise spell. You spend 25gp/HD of onyx, and raise one corpse as either a skeleton or zombie. The corpse must be either small or medium, and you cannot apply templates like bloody or fast.
Animate Dead is the up-grade to Lesser, allowing you to raise as many corpses in one casting as you like, up to double your caster level in HD, and at the 25gp/HD of onyx.1) Note that you can only control undead equal to 4HD * your caster level. so at 4th level, you can control 16HD worth of undead, and raise 8HD at a time with Animate Dead.
Create Undead and Create Undead : Greater allow you to create intelligent undead, giving you better undead as your caster level increases.
Note : The only way to control Intelligent undead is by using either the Command Undead spell, or the Command Undead Feat. You must beat their will save to control them this way. Using the feat, intelligent undead get a new saving throw every day to break the enchantment. The spell lasts for one day per caster level.
Can any corpse work for Animate Dead? It seems silly to animate a Human Skeleton from a dog corpse. How do I calculate HD on these Undead?
Can any corpse work for Animate Dead? It seems silly to animate a Human Skeleton from a dog corpse. How do I calculate HD on these Undead?
Any corpse can work, but you are unable to combine dead creatures to artificially increase the HD of the undead created. This means that most of your skeletons and zombies that are humanoid are going to be 1hd.
However, wolves are 2hd, and there are plenty of creatures out there that are higher HD as well.There is a monster that is an amalgamation of corpses, but I don't remember what it is called.
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Can any corpse work for Animate Dead? It seems silly to animate a Human Skeleton from a dog corpse. How do I calculate HD on these Undead?Any corpse can work, but you are unable to combine dead creatures to artificially increase the HD of the undead created. This means that most of your skeletons and zombies that are humanoid are going to be 1hd.
However, wolves are 2hd, and there are plenty of creatures out there that are higher HD as well.There is a monster that is an amalgamation of corpses, but I don't remember what it is called.
If I understand this right, the corpse used kinda acts like a pool of HD points to use to making the undead and I can't combine pools? How do I know a creature's HD outside of a knowledge check?
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Note that with the Create Undead line that Command Undead, both the spell and the feat are not the only way to control the undead you create. If you have the undead bloodline arcana, you can use domnate person and similar enchantment spells to dominate the undead you create with those spells as long as their corporeal and you used a humanoid to make them. Thats why I was saying the undead bloodline arcana is so good...it's a far more reliable way of controlling intelligent undead.
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the creature is called a necrocraft ** spoiler omitted **
Also I'd feel remiss if I don't add that the shaman class also has access to necromancy as well as even a bone spirit and with the hexes and what not you'd be a debuffing/undead army summoning machine.
This... This is a beautiful creature!!
Also, the bone shaman suffers from not being able to specialize in necromancy as well as other options.
If I understand this right, the corpse used kinda acts like a pool of HD points to use to making the undead and I can't combine pools? How do I know a creature's HD outside of a knowledge check?Can any corpse work for Animate Dead? It seems silly to animate a Human Skeleton from a dog corpse. How do I calculate HD on these Undead?Any corpse can work, but you are unable to combine dead creatures to artificially increase the HD of the undead created. This means that most of your skeletons and zombies that are humanoid are going to be 1hd.
However, wolves are 2hd, and there are plenty of creatures out there that are higher HD as well.There is a monster that is an amalgamation of corpses, but I don't remember what it is called.
This is where you end up getting partial GM knowledge about monsters post mortem.
How do variants affect HD cost?
I know certain variants have clauses stating they count as twice as many HD for purposes of being raised (bloody skeletons for example). This is where desecrate (?) can shine as it allows you to raise twice as many HD when you use create undead within the spell area.
We've always played if it is a variant and doesn't state creation rules we weren't allowed to build it as a PC.
Can I create a plague fast zombie?
Yes. Though, I'd recommend Bloody Burning Skeletons instead, they do 1d6 damage on hit, as a 5-ft aura, when hit in melee, and when they die to all in a 5-ft radius while also having fast healing 1 and the Deathless quality that just means they return to life 1-hr later. The aura, deathlessness and explosive death is what really makes them shine.
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Can I create a plague fast zombie?Yes. Though, I'd recommend Bloody Burning Skeletons instead, they do 1d6 damage on hit, as a 5-ft aura, when hit in melee, and when they die to all in a 5-ft radius while also having fast healing 1 and the Deathless quality that just means they return to life 1-hr later. The aura, deathlessness and explosive death is what really makes them shine.
Without a doubt, those are much better. I was unsure if you can double variants of they both remove the same ability.
Zombie Fun Fact: You can add zombie variants without increasing HD cost.
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Also... As crazy as this sounds learn the spell fireball. Why? Things you kill with them can be transformed into blast shadows with create undead.. Which are the only undead that are automatically be under your control that you can make with create undead( they are intelligent, too). Any aoe fire spell will work, but fireball is likely the best one.
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Also... As crazy as this sounds learn the spell fireball. Why? Things you kill with them can be transformed into blast shadows with create undead.. Which are the only undead that are automatically be under your control that you can make with create undead( they are intelligent, too). Any aoe fire spell will work, but fireball is likely the best one.
Magical Lineage Intensified Fireball work? Fire AoE spells, third priority