I have an upcoming Skull and Shackles campaign in which I will be playing the parties caster. I am unsure of what is exactly needed in this CS as I have never played it before but our group at the moment is as follows:
Siege Engineer; Oracle; Monk;
I have been waffling between making a Blade Adept and going the EK route and trying to go the route of blaster with energy admixture so my fireballs don't destroy ships we are capturing. With that being said I was wondering:
1.) If I go the EK route, would still have enough casting power to fill the role of the parties only arcane caster?
2.) I have heard of a crossblooded sorcerer dip then going in to Arcanist build, as well as the Blade Adept in to EK build, but I haven't been able to find much in terms of discussion on them. Have any of you seen any build posted anywhere or decent discussion on the Arcanist in to later levels?
I have found this optimization guide which is pretty bare bone from this thread. It has some decent insight in to the first few levels but I am trying to get a feel for the class before building it. Thanks for reading and your help!
Blockbuster Wizard Guide and Eldritch Knight Guide
We have a 25 pt buy in this campaign and are allowed to use core and featured races. I think my DM would OK a Drow Noble as well. i think the two I am looking at right now are Peri-blooded Aasimar and Drow Noble depending on which build I go for.
Blade Adept screws you out of early-access to EK, as you want to get to the level where you can actually get an Exploit so you can track your blade by caster level. So I'd ignore that one; you can certainly go Arcanist -> EK but you don't want it to be a Blade Adept.
Arcanist gets spells after the Wizard as-is, and you have to eat two levels with no spell progression to get into EK. Magical Knack can keep you at full caster level, but your actual spell slots will be two behind. So if your party demands the upper crust of spells immediately... then no, it's a poor choice.
Crossblooded Sorc is basically eating a dead level of spells in exchange for all your spells of a given element doing +2 damage per die. You then take the Bloodline Development exploit and get to progress your bloodline powers as normal.
kestral287 wrote: Blade Adept screws you out of early-access to EK, as you want to get to the level where you can actually get an Exploit so you can track your blade by caster level. So I'd ignore that one; you can certainly go Arcanist -> EK but you don't want it to be a Blade Adept. Hmm I thought Aasimars SLA for Daylight granted access to EK. From this FAQ thread here
Quote wrote: Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?
Yes.
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.
Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6). Given that prestige classes are usually a sub-optimal character choice (especially for spellcasters), the design team is allowing this FAQ ruling for prestige classes. If there is in-play evidence that this ruling is creating characters that are too powerful, the design team may revisit whether or not to allow spell-like abilities to count for prestige class requirements.
I'm thinking that I am probably going to end up going the Blockbuster route with how much martial investment I would probably have to put in to the BA+EK to make it viable.
Are there any alternate archetypes for the Arcanist worth taking for a blockbuster? Also with a cross-blooded sorcerer dip that would just be a single level investment at first, and then you go on your merry way into Arcanist right?
I'm thinking crossblooded Draconic/Marid because of the campaign setting, or is Draconic/Orc really worth it?
StackOverflow wrote: kestral287 wrote: Blade Adept screws you out of early-access to EK, as you want to get to the level where you can actually get an Exploit so you can track your blade by caster level. So I'd ignore that one; you can certainly go Arcanist -> EK but you don't want it to be a Blade Adept. Hmm I thought Aasimars SLA for Daylight granted access to EK. From this FAQ thread here Kestral isn't saying that you can't take early EK access, just that if you are going for a Blade Adept you would want to hold off for at least level 5 when you can finally take the Eldritch Blade exploit. Otherwise you are stuck with a low level Black Blade for the rest of your career.
d20pfsrd.com wrote: Eldritch Blade: A blade adept with this exploit uses her caster level instead of her class level for the purpose of advancing her bonded sword's powers.
CyderGnome wrote: StackOverflow wrote: kestral287 wrote: Blade Adept screws you out of early-access to EK, as you want to get to the level where you can actually get an Exploit so you can track your blade by caster level. So I'd ignore that one; you can certainly go Arcanist -> EK but you don't want it to be a Blade Adept. Hmm I thought Aasimars SLA for Daylight granted access to EK. From this FAQ thread here Kestral isn't saying that you can't take early EK access, just that if you are going for a Blade Adept you would want to hold off for at least level 5 when you can finally take the Eldritch Blade exploit. Otherwise you are stuck with a low level Black Blade for the rest of your career.
d20pfsrd.com wrote: Eldritch Blade: A blade adept with this exploit uses her caster level instead of her class level for the purpose of advancing her bonded sword's powers. Oh wow, I completely whiffed on that, thank you both for clarifying.
Hmm, as flavorful as the EK would be for a pirate game, I think I am going to try something along the lines of a Peri-Blooded Aasimar with 1 Level in crossblooded sorcerer and then going in to School Savant choosing Energy Admixture so I can change the energy types of fireballs and whatnot so I don't light ships on fire in the campaign.
StackOverflow wrote: kestral287 wrote: Blade Adept screws you out of early-access to EK, as you want to get to the level where you can actually get an Exploit so you can track your blade by caster level. So I'd ignore that one; you can certainly go Arcanist -> EK but you don't want it to be a Blade Adept. Hmm I thought Aasimars SLA for Daylight granted access to EK. From this FAQ thread here Daylight does grant early entry, but Peri-blooded don't get Daylight.
Thank you all for your comments so far. I have dropped the idea of going BA->EK and instead have been trying to think of a decent Arcanist Blockbuster.
With a 25 point buy and Peri-Blooded Aasimar I have the following rough outline:
Crossblooded Sorcerer 1(Draconic/Orc)/School Savant 19
Traits: Magical Lineage + other
1: Feat:Spell Focus(Evocation)
2:
3: Feat:Spell Specialization(Burning Hands)
4:
5: Feat: Greater Spell Focus(Evocation)
6: Exploit:Dimensional Slide
7: Feat: Extra Arcanist Exploit(MetaMagic Knowledge(Intensified Spell))
8:
9: Feat: Spell Penetration
10: Exploit: Potent Magic
11: Feat:Dazing Spell
12: Exploit: School Understanding(Void:Reveal Weakness)
13: Feat: Quicken Spell
14: Exploit: Quick Study
15: Feat: Spell Perfection(Fireball)
16: Exploit: Redirect Spell
17: Feat: Greater Spell Penetration
18: Exploit: Counterspell
19: Feat: Maximize Spell
20: Exploit: Greater Counterspell
It seems very awkward in a few places though. Having to use feats to get more exploits early on because of School Savant seems to hurt as my access to Spell Penetration/Greater Spell Penetration is extremely late. Also I couldn't find a good place to slot in the Consume Magic Items exploit which seems like a core component of the Arcanist. Lastly, having a familiar seems like it would be one of the best exploits to get, but again with School Savant I found myself lacking low level exploits.
I guess the main question would be is dipping a level in to Crossblooded Sorcerer even worth doing, seeing as Arcanists get access to Fireball one level later than Wizards already. That mixed with school savant gimping my early game exploits seems to really make it awkward.
I slightly favor blaster of the two. Having said that if you want to be an aasimar I'd go blade adept because its a little better at that role.
Renegadeshepherd wrote: I slightly favor blaster of the two. Having said that if you want to be an aasimar I'd go blade adept because its a little better at that role. Ah I picked Peri-Blooded Aasimar for the +4 to INT and +2 CHA. I suppose Human would never be a bad choice with how feat starved I seem to be. It would let me have Spell Specialization at first level.
Human is definitely the best for blasters and similar builds. Any blaster is feat starved for a long time.
Renegadeshepherd wrote: Human is definitely the best for blasters and similar builds. Any blaster is feat starved for a long time. I threw something like this together for a 20 level School Savant Human. The extra feat seems to really help out, but I am trying to decide if the familiar is worth having over Reveal Weakness from School Understanding and if using the Bloodline Development(Orc) exploit at some point to gain an addition damage per dice rolled regardless of element. I am worried with this campaign being Skull and Shackles that I will effectively light all of our ships on fire and sink our loot, which is why I went admixture from School Savant.
School Savant 20 – Human
1: Feat:Spell Focus(Evocation) Feat:Spell Spec.(Burning Hands)
2:
3: Feat: Extra Arcanist Exploit(Potent Magic)
4:
5: Feat:Greater Spell Focus(Evocation) Exploit:Dimensional Slide
6:
7: Feat: Extra Arcanist Exploit(MetaMagic Knowledge(Intensified Spell))
8:
9: Feat:Dazing Spell Exploit: School Understanding(Void:Reveal Weakness)
10:
11: Feat:Quicken Spell Exploit:Greater Metamagic Knowledge(Empower Spell)
12:
13: Feat:Spell Penetration Exploit: Something
14:
15: Feat:Spell Perfection(Fireball) Exploit: Something
16:
17: Feat:Greater Spell Penetration Exploit: Something
18:
19: Feat:Something Exploit: Something
20:
Bloodline Development does not grant you a bloodline's arcanas, so Orc won't give you bonus damage. Just a thought.
kestral287 wrote: Bloodline Development does not grant you a bloodline's arcanas, so Orc won't give you bonus damage. Just a thought. Oh oops, it's just the bloodine power at 1st level. My bad.
Right. A couple of notes now that I've had time to look in more detail:
-Extra Arcanist Exploit is unavailable until you actually have the Exploit class feature. With School Savant, that's not until level 5.
-Greater Metamagic Knowledge is a nice exploit, but it's not how you want to pick up Empower Spell. Empower is one of your go-to damage boosts for a Blaster and needs to be always-on. You'd do better taking something more situational, like Piercing Spell or Silent Spell.
-You need Spell Penetration before level 13.
-You need Maximize Spell at some point. Too good of a damage boost to not use.
kestral287 wrote: Right. A couple of notes now that I've had time to look in more detail:
-Extra Arcanist Exploit is unavailable until you actually have the Exploit class feature. With School Savant, that's not until level 5.
-Greater Metamagic Knowledge is a nice exploit, but it's not how you want to pick up Empower Spell. Empower is one of your go-to damage boosts for a Blaster and needs to be always-on. You'd do better taking something more situational, like Piercing Spell or Silent Spell.
-You need Spell Penetration before level 13.
-You need Maximize Spell at some point. Too good of a damage boost to not use.
Thanks for the reply Kestral! I was being silly and looking at the base Arcanist on D20PFSRD, so I would think swapping Greater Spell Focus and the Extra Arcanist feat could work.
As for your other two points with Spell Penetration and Empower/Maximize, I am having a hard time finding a place to slot them in. If I replaced Empower from Greater Metamagic Knowledge by picking a more situational one, I don't know where I would get Empower/Maximize from outside of Rods. Would having those two come exclusively from rods be ok?
StackOverflow wrote: Renegadeshepherd wrote: I slightly favor blaster of the two. Having said that if you want to be an aasimar I'd go blade adept because its a little better at that role. Ah I picked Peri-Blooded Aasimar for the +4 to INT and +2 CHA. I suppose Human would never be a bad choice with how feat starved I seem to be. It would let me have Spell Specialization at first level. Where does the +4 Int come from? Peri-blooded normally get +2 Int.
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