StackOverflow's page

Hmm won't let me add this to my previous post.

Do you think Wayang Spellhunter is good enough to warrant a feat for additional traits? My DM is requiring that we all take at least one trait from the Campaign setting for S&S. It would mean slowing feat progression though and subsequently MM access, but it seems really worthwhile to have along with magical lineage.

Thelemic_Noun wrote:

StackOverflow wrote:

Could this just be a case where a Wizard or Sorcerer would be better for the role of an Evoking Wizard?

Nope. Potent Magic is that good.

The whole point of the blockbuster wizard is to both be good at blasting and to have *versatility.* Stacking two bloodlines for +2 damage per die with one elemental damage type is the opposite of that.

And if you dump Charisma like you're supposed to, School Understanding (admixture) is only usable once per day.

And an arcanist has a one-up on the admixture wizard in the versatility department: in addition to being able to switch out his energy damage type on a whim, the arcanist can also change metamagic feats on the fly and doesn't need to guess ahead of time exactly how many fireballs he needs to prepare.

(emphasis mine) unless you're a wordcaster.

Wow Thelemic_Noun thanks so much for the writeup and sample build! I think I was getting away from the blasting roots by trying to fit in Dimensional Step and School Understanding(Void). While those things are good, they made the overall build weaker.

@AndIMustMask - Wordcasting looks really strong. I think my DM might be a hard sell on a lot of that though.

StackOverflow wrote:

Has anyone seen any builds that seem viable for simulating the blockbuster wizard but with using an Arcanist? I have tried different builds using School Savant and I find myself lacking feats as if I had just gone Crossblooded Sorcerer.

I tried one build with a dip in to Crossblooded Sorcerer as well as one that was pure School Savant once I realized the delay to level 7 before getting 3rd level spells seemed harsh.

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...

two things, 1 your school savant can't pick up school understanding.

2. I suggest you go normal arcanist and just grab school understanding admixture. that way it uses up 1 exploit instead of 3.

The more I look at it the more I am in agreement with giving just the base Arcanist a go. I am currently working on putting something together with what FuzzyIllogic said:

A possible good use for the Arcane Weapon exploit would be with a 1-level dip in Wizard Spellslinger.
Lose another spell level vs wizard, but for a potential +5 DC on some spells. With the right spells and/or metamagic and the Potent Spell exploit could be devastating.

I am thinking perhaps just Spellslinger 1/Arcanist 19 although Blood Arcanist is really appealing with this build. Dealing with the delayed spell progression is the sacrifice though, and it is a big one.

Has anyone seen any builds that seem viable for simulating the blockbuster wizard but with using an Arcanist? I have tried different builds using School Savant and I find myself lacking feats as if I had just gone Crossblooded Sorcerer.

I tried one build with a dip in to Crossblooded Sorcerer as well as one that was pure School Savant once I realized the delay to level 7 before getting 3rd level spells seemed harsh.

I seem to always be stuck with an inability to take Spell Penetration until very late in addition to only being able to take a few key MM feats, leaving the rest to rods. Also I can never seem to find a slot for a familiar which is always a great thing to have.
Could this just be a case where a Wizard or Sorcerer would be better for the role of an Evoking Wizard?

Right. A couple of notes now that I've had time to look in more detail:

-Extra Arcanist Exploit is unavailable until you actually have the Exploit class feature. With School Savant, that's not until level 5.
-Greater Metamagic Knowledge is a nice exploit, but it's not how you want to pick up Empower Spell. Empower is one of your go-to damage boosts for a Blaster and needs to be always-on. You'd do better taking something more situational, like Piercing Spell or Silent Spell.
-You need Spell Penetration before level 13.
-You need Maximize Spell at some point. Too good of a damage boost to not use.

Thanks for the reply Kestral! I was being silly and looking at the base Arcanist on D20PFSRD, so I would think swapping Greater Spell Focus and the Extra Arcanist feat could work.

As for your other two points with Spell Penetration and Empower/Maximize, I am having a hard time finding a place to slot them in. If I replaced Empower from Greater Metamagic Knowledge by picking a more situational one, I don't know where I would get Empower/Maximize from outside of Rods. Would having those two come exclusively from rods be ok?

Bloodline Development does not grant you a bloodline's arcanas, so Orc won't give you bonus damage. Just a thought.

Oh oops, it's just the bloodine power at 1st level. My bad.

Human is definitely the best for blasters and similar builds. Any blaster is feat starved for a long time.

I threw something like this together for a 20 level School Savant Human. The extra feat seems to really help out, but I am trying to decide if the familiar is worth having over Reveal Weakness from School Understanding and if using the Bloodline Development(Orc) exploit at some point to gain an addition damage per dice rolled regardless of element. I am worried with this campaign being Skull and Shackles that I will effectively light all of our ships on fire and sink our loot, which is why I went admixture from School Savant.

School Savant 20 – Human
1: Feat:Spell Focus(Evocation) Feat:Spell Spec.(Burning Hands)
2:
3: Feat: Extra Arcanist Exploit(Potent Magic)
4:
5: Feat:Greater Spell Focus(Evocation) Exploit:Dimensional Slide
6:
7: Feat: Extra Arcanist Exploit(MetaMagic Knowledge(Intensified Spell))
8:
9: Feat:Dazing Spell Exploit: School Understanding(Void:Reveal Weakness)
10:
11: Feat:Quicken Spell Exploit:Greater Metamagic Knowledge(Empower Spell)
12:
13: Feat:Spell Penetration Exploit: Something
14:
15: Feat:Spell Perfection(Fireball) Exploit: Something
16:
17: Feat:Greater Spell Penetration Exploit: Something
18:
19: Feat:Something Exploit: Something
20:

I slightly favor blaster of the two. Having said that if you want to be an aasimar I'd go blade adept because its a little better at that role.

Ah I picked Peri-Blooded Aasimar for the +4 to INT and +2 CHA. I suppose Human would never be a bad choice with how feat starved I seem to be. It would let me have Spell Specialization at first level.

Thank you all for your comments so far. I have dropped the idea of going BA->EK and instead have been trying to think of a decent Arcanist Blockbuster.

With a 25 point buy and Peri-Blooded Aasimar I have the following rough outline:

Crossblooded Sorcerer 1(Draconic/Orc)/School Savant 19
Traits: Magical Lineage + other

1: Feat:Spell Focus(Evocation)
2:
3: Feat:Spell Specialization(Burning Hands)
4:
5: Feat: Greater Spell Focus(Evocation)
6: Exploit:Dimensional Slide
7: Feat: Extra Arcanist Exploit(MetaMagic Knowledge(Intensified Spell))
8:
9: Feat: Spell Penetration
10: Exploit: Potent Magic
11: Feat:Dazing Spell
12: Exploit: School Understanding(Void:Reveal Weakness)
13: Feat: Quicken Spell
14: Exploit: Quick Study
15: Feat: Spell Perfection(Fireball)
16: Exploit: Redirect Spell
17: Feat: Greater Spell Penetration
18: Exploit: Counterspell
19: Feat: Maximize Spell
20: Exploit: Greater Counterspell

It seems very awkward in a few places though. Having to use feats to get more exploits early on because of School Savant seems to hurt as my access to Spell Penetration/Greater Spell Penetration is extremely late. Also I couldn't find a good place to slot in the Consume Magic Items exploit which seems like a core component of the Arcanist. Lastly, having a familiar seems like it would be one of the best exploits to get, but again with School Savant I found myself lacking low level exploits.

I guess the main question would be is dipping a level in to Crossblooded Sorcerer even worth doing, seeing as Arcanists get access to Fireball one level later than Wizards already. That mixed with school savant gimping my early game exploits seems to really make it awkward.

StackOverflow wrote:

kestral287 wrote:

Blade Adept screws you out of early-access to EK, as you want to get to the level where you can actually get an Exploit so you can track your blade by caster level. So I'd ignore that one; you can certainly go Arcanist -> EK but you don't want it to be a Blade Adept.

Hmm I thought Aasimars SLA for Daylight granted access to EK. From this FAQ thread here

Kestral isn't saying that you can't take early EK access, just that if you are going for a Blade Adept you would want to hold off for at least level 5 when you can finally take the Eldritch Blade exploit. Otherwise you are stuck with a low level Black Blade for the rest of your career.

d20pfsrd.com wrote:

Eldritch Blade: A blade adept with this exploit uses her caster level instead of her class level for the purpose of advancing her bonded sword's powers.

Oh wow, I completely whiffed on that, thank you both for clarifying.

Hmm, as flavorful as the EK would be for a pirate game, I think I am going to try something along the lines of a Peri-Blooded Aasimar with 1 Level in crossblooded sorcerer and then going in to School Savant choosing Energy Admixture so I can change the energy types of fireballs and whatnot so I don't light ships on fire in the campaign.

Blade Adept screws you out of early-access to EK, as you want to get to the level where you can actually get an Exploit so you can track your blade by caster level. So I'd ignore that one; you can certainly go Arcanist -> EK but you don't want it to be a Blade Adept.

Hmm I thought Aasimars SLA for Daylight granted access to EK. From this FAQ thread here

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?

Yes.
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.

Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6). Given that prestige classes are usually a sub-optimal character choice (especially for spellcasters), the design team is allowing this FAQ ruling for prestige classes. If there is in-play evidence that this ruling is creating characters that are too powerful, the design team may revisit whether or not to allow spell-like abilities to count for prestige class requirements.

I'm thinking that I am probably going to end up going the Blockbuster route with how much martial investment I would probably have to put in to the BA+EK to make it viable.

Are there any alternate archetypes for the Arcanist worth taking for a blockbuster? Also with a cross-blooded sorcerer dip that would just be a single level investment at first, and then you go on your merry way into Arcanist right?

I'm thinking crossblooded Draconic/Marid because of the campaign setting, or is Draconic/Orc really worth it?

We have a 25 pt buy in this campaign and are allowed to use core and featured races. I think my DM would OK a Drow Noble as well. i think the two I am looking at right now are Peri-blooded Aasimar and Drow Noble depending on which build I go for.

I have an upcoming Skull and Shackles campaign in which I will be playing the parties caster. I am unsure of what is exactly needed in this CS as I have never played it before but our group at the moment is as follows:
Siege Engineer; Oracle; Monk;
I have been waffling between making a Blade Adept and going the EK route and trying to go the route of blaster with energy admixture so my fireballs don't destroy ships we are capturing. With that being said I was wondering:
1.) If I go the EK route, would still have enough casting power to fill the role of the parties only arcane caster?
2.) I have heard of a crossblooded sorcerer dip then going in to Arcanist build, as well as the Blade Adept in to EK build, but I haven't been able to find much in terms of discussion on them. Have any of you seen any build posted anywhere or decent discussion on the Arcanist in to later levels?
I have found this optimization guide which is pretty bare bone from this thread. It has some decent insight in to the first few levels but I am trying to get a feel for the class before building it. Thanks for reading and your help!
Blockbuster Wizard Guide and Eldritch Knight Guide

After looking through some more stuff it seems like a Peri-Blooded Aasimar is the way to go for the +2 Int and +2 Cha, or I suppose just Human for the feat and +2 to Int or Cha.

The more I have looked at the archetypes, the more the school savant seems like it would be potential a decent choice for a blaster, but losing the 1st, 3rd, and 7th level exploits seems harsh. On a side note, more thematically, the Blade Adept seems like it would be fun, but has the same issues of exploit loss.

I will try and make a few level 10 builds in the next few days for people to judge so I am not just asking for people to do work for me of a blaster, generalist, and a blade adept when I can find the time.

Hey everyone, I am starting up a Skull and Shackles campaign with three others and they thought that the Arcanist that just came out in the ACG would be something that I'd like. I used to play a fair amount of DnD3.5 in college and just recently started playing Pathfinder, but don't know a lot of the material yet. With that being the case I had a few questions:

1. Can I even discuss this class yet? I bought the PDF(AdvClassGuide), but I am unsure if it has been officially released.

2. With regards to the above I'll try and be generic; Do any of the archetypes stick out as being decent compared to the cost of losing the early game arcane exploits? The Arcanist seems to take a few levels to get going and those early exploits seem like they would be worth it to put in to maybe one of the elemental ones?

3. I am trying to figure out a way to create an engine to re-fill the arcane reservoir outside of using Runestones of Power to cast spells in to it. The best thing that I have seen could maybe involve some sort of Resistance Drain abuse, however that requires a spell to be cast by a foe, so I don't think it is actually feasible.

4. I have seen debate from the bit of investigation I have been able to do between having dedicated blasters and more traditional casters with a spread of spell types. Do you think a dedicated blaster role would fit the Arcanist better than a generalist?

5. Post your ideas! I haven't seen much regarding this class outside of playtest materials. I hope to maybe start compiling some good info on it in this thread :D

oops, reread the bomb section for alchemist.

Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus.

I was dumb and didn't realize that it only matters for feats that require you to take a full attack action, like TWP and RS.

Thanks, I understand what you mean now. It just moves it forward or back one square in the order of the d8. So if you rolled a 6 you could have it land in the 5 or 7 square.

I also was curious about how feats work with alchemist bombs. The bomb usage is a supernatural ability, so does that mean you have to wait until you get fast bombs before ANY feat is able to affect bombs? I am interested because I am trying to work out using Kirin Strike with bombs to amp the damage from the int modifier and it seems to me that the feats can't even work with the bombs until you get fast bombs.

Fast Bombs:

Benefit: An alchemist with this discovery can quickly create enough bombs to throw more than one in a single round. The alchemist can prepare and throw additional bombs as a full-round action if his base attack bonus is high enough to grant him additional attacks. This functions just like a full-attack with a ranged weapon.

The wording on Targeted Bomb Admixture is as follows:

When you throw bombs, they can only hit a direct target; they do not splash. However, the bomb deals its base damage plus double your Intelligence modifier instead of just its base damage plus your Intelligence modifier.

And the wording on Splash Weapon Mastery is as follows:

When throwing a splash weapon, you act as if you had the Far Shot feat. When you hit with a splash weapon, select one additional square adjacent to the splash area; creatures in this area also take splash damage. When you miss with a splash weapon, you may adjust the miss direction on the grid by +1 or –1. This feat counts as Far Shot for the purpose of qualifying for other feats, but only in regard to splash weapons.

My question is for Splash Weapon Mastery, on a miss are you able to move the bomb splash grid in any direction by 1 or is it just towards you by 1 or further away from you by 1?

Secondly, if you use Targeted Bomb Admixture and miss, if you roll a 5 on the d8 for the miss square, could you potentially have the 5 ft square that the bomb lands in be the enemies square? Instead of taking dice damage + int modifier would it just be minimum dice roll plus modifiers with a reflex save for half?