So I have joined a new group where everyone is animalistic in the party. I choose to play a sorcerer kitsune and I am looking at this, maybe its just me, but it seems kinda flawed. The official (no 3rd party.DM wont allow it) race can only use simple weapons, which means it can't even use a katana, and can't even use its claws. I was hoping to use those to make up for my lack of spell in the lower level, plus a monster of Asian mythology, not being able to use a Asian blade is just wrong. Can anyone help me not be so weak at lower levels.I am not really used to this whole, "magic known" stuff. I chose to go with the shadow bloodline and chaotic neutral to rift of the nogitsune, since that doesn't exist either.
Why it is flawed? Usually your class determines what weapons you use, not your race. Do the same things as a kitsune that you would as a human, or half-elf, or gnome, or halfling as a sorcerer at lower levels.
Ah...well thats a little embarrassing... I forgot about that weapon thing.... I guess ignore my flub-up...
I have never been a sorcerer before so I really don't know what to do...
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You can use the Heirloom Weapon trait to give yourself katana proficiency.
That and a race is always proficient with any natural weapons it has.
according to paizo, it doesn't have claws
"Natural Weapons (Ex) In her natural form, a kitsune has a bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage."
If you want a weapon proficiency in an eastern blade, try heirloom weapon trait. (Katana is exotic, 1 handed martial so i think you'll have to settle for wakzashi without blowing the feat)
Creatures are automatically proficient with their natural attacks.
You really don't want to be using either of those as a sorcerer.
You can use the Heirloom Weapon trait to give yourself katana proficiency.
good to know! Do you think use of my only feat at lvl one would be good to use that on?
If you want a weapon proficiency in an eastern blade, try heirloom weapon trait. (Katana is exotic, 1 handed martial so i think you'll have to settle for wakzashi without blowing the feat)
Creatures are automatically proficient with their natural attacks.
You really don't want to be using either of those as a sorcerer.
What would you recommend? =)
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Since this doesn't seem to be PFS specific, I've flagged to be moved to advice thread.
As others have said, you are automatically proficient in your bite, and you can gain proficiency in a martial weapon via a Trait, but those are poor options for a sorcerer. You generally do not want to be in melee range to use either one of them. You don't have the defenses to not die in melee, or the offense to make a difference with a poor STR modifier.
You are generally best served by having a light crossbow or a cantrip enchanced with an alchemical focus.
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In my mind, Kitsune are one of the least flawed races out there. They get all kinds of good stuff.
A kitsune can take realistic likeness at first level, and turn into any human they've ever seen. Add the 200 g Sleeves of many Garments, and you can turn yourself into a 2 year old to slip through small spaces, or a tall person to reach high shelves. You can run around a corner away from guards, change, and then say, "They went that away!"
Plus, sorcerers get that awesome bonus to enchantment DCs as a favored class bonus...
As a sorcerer, you are not the weapon guy. You are the magic guy. Still, you can use a simple spear to aid others in combat and stay at a distance, or take advantage of attacks of opportunity.
Here are some combat ideas for you:
1) crossbow -- yeah, it's not great, but it's a distance weapon that doesn't require strength;
2) acid splash with an acid flask as a focus -- +1 to your damage with acid splash, and you can do that cantrip endlessly
3) daze cantrip (trade it out at fourth level) -- as a kitsune, your DC would be hard to resist;
4) grease -- cause bad guys to fall, and then skewer them with your spear when they get up, and your team can skewer them too!
5) silent image (make fake walls, boxes with arrow slits to protect your party, etc.) I enclosed an enemy caster in a box of mirrors while my combat guys dealt with his horde of undead. He was stuck there for THREE rounds, not being able to see or get out. That was three rounds of him not casting at us. By the time he got out, my guys were in position and finished him off. It was great!
In addition, Charm Person is a great out of combat spell that remains useful for a long time.
Hmm
Since this doesn't seem to be PFS specific, I've flagged to be moved to advice thread.
As others have said, you are automatically proficient in your bite, and you can gain proficiency in a martial weapon via a Trait, but those are poor options for a sorcerer. You generally do not want to be in melee range to use either one of them. You don't have the defenses to not die in melee, or the offense to make a difference with a poor STR modifier.
You are generally best served by having a light crossbow or a cantrip enchanced with an alchemical focus.
Opps sorry, thanks for the move and advice!
You can use the Heirloom Weapon trait to give yourself katana proficiency.good to know! Do you think use of my only feat at lvl one would be good to use that on?
It's a trait, not a feat, so you don't need to use a feat for it if you're in a game that allows traits. Though you can also use a feat to gain proficiency in one weapon.
It's a trait, not a feat, so you don't need to use a feat for it if you're in a game that allows traits. Though you can also use a feat to gain proficiency in one weapon.You can use the Heirloom Weapon trait to give yourself katana proficiency.good to know! Do you think use of my only feat at lvl one would be good to use that on?
Wow, I am all kinda of blonde today XD
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Other ideas...
Flagbearer feat -- Cast with one hand, hold the flag (attached to your spear) with another, give your allies a bonus to hit and to damage, that stacks fully with bardic buffs. It does not stack with bless though, so if you have a divine caster in your party, talk with them before taking this feat.
Hmm
In my mind, Kitsune are one of the least flawed races out there. They get all kinds of good stuff.
A kitsune can take realistic likeness at first level, and turn into any human they've ever seen. Add the 200 g Sleeves of many Garments, and you can turn yourself into a 2 year old to slip through small spaces, or a tall person to reach high shelves. You can run around a corner away from guards, change, and then say, "They went that away!"
Plus, sorcerers get that awesome bonus to enchantment DCs as a favored class bonus...
As a sorcerer, you are not the weapon guy. You are the magic guy. Still, you can use a simple spear to aid others in combat and stay at a distance, or take advantage of attacks of opportunity.
Here are some combat ideas for you:
1) crossbow -- yeah, it's not great, but it's a distance weapon that doesn't require strength;
2) acid splash with an acid flask as a focus -- +1 to your damage with acid splash, and you can do that cantrip endlessly
3) daze cantrip (trade it out at fourth level) -- as a kitsune, your DC would be hard to resist;
4) grease -- cause bad guys to fall, and then skewer them with your spear when they get up, and your team can skewer them too!
5) silent image (make fake walls, boxes with arrow slits to protect your party, etc.) I enclosed an enemy caster in a box of mirrors while my combat guys dealt with his horde of undead. He was stuck there for THREE rounds, not being able to see or get out. That was three rounds of him not casting at us. By the time he got out, my guys were in position and finished him off. It was great!In addition, Charm Person is a great out of combat spell that remains useful for a long time.
Hmm
Hmm, Guess i was looking at it all wrong, I have never been a magic main focus player before. Thank you :)
p.s. your name is fun ;)
What would you recommend? =)If you want a weapon proficiency in an eastern blade, try heirloom weapon trait. (Katana is exotic, 1 handed martial so i think you'll have to settle for wakzashi without blowing the feat)
Creatures are automatically proficient with their natural attacks.
You really don't want to be using either of those as a sorcerer.
Kitsune are really good at enchantment spells and have a bonus to charisma.
Getting off a charm spell before hostilities start can sometimes save you from the other guy getting a +5 bonus to their saves, so initiative is good.
I would focus on that. hitting things As a sorcerer with a strength penalty is something you'd have to specifically build for.
Then where are you getting the claws from? The Bloodline?That and a race is always proficient with any natural weapons it has.according to paizo, it doesn't have claws
"Natural Weapons (Ex) In her natural form, a kitsune has a bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage."
Kitsune are anthropomorphic/humanoid foxes. The anthropomorphic/humanoid cats and dogs get claw attacks, and foxes are related top both more closely to dogs. Even in Kitsune lore they have claws
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My name is fun! The letters "Hmm" are my initials in real life, as well as my attitude towards interesting questions.
I'm playing a kitsune sorcerer as well, and having a blast with it. I've discovered that I am really excellent at battlefield control. While my personal damage sucks, I make things work great for my team.
My recommendations... Get grease as one of your first spells. Grease the weapons of bad guys. Grease the squares outside of doorways so that your team can hold position and take advantage of attacks of opportunity.
You'll need mage armor, but if you can get it as a wand, do so. That'll free up room for another spell where your high DCs might matter.
Hmm
What would you recommend? =)If you want a weapon proficiency in an eastern blade, try heirloom weapon trait. (Katana is exotic, 1 handed martial so i think you'll have to settle for wakzashi without blowing the feat)
Creatures are automatically proficient with their natural attacks.
You really don't want to be using either of those as a sorcerer.
Kitsune are really good at enchantment spells and have a bonus to charisma.
Getting off a charm spell before hostilities start can sometimes save you from the other guy getting a +5 bonus to their saves, so initiative is good.
I would focus on that. hitting things As a sorcerer with a strength penalty is something you'd have to specifically build for.
ah i see. how does stuff like that work with receiving XP at battles end? I know in the past when I have focused on aiding more than attacking my XP suffered since I didn't land many hit.
My name is fun! The letters "Hmm" are my initials in real life, as well as my attitude towards interesting questions.
I'm playing a kitsune sorcerer as well, and having a blast with it. I've discovered that I am really excellent at battlefield control. While my personal damage sucks, I make things work great for my team.
My recommendations... Get grease as one of your first spells. Grease the weapons of bad guys. Grease the squares outside of doorways so that your team can hold position and take advantage of attacks of opportunity.
You'll need mage armor, but if you can get it as a wand, do so. That'll free up room for another spell where your high DCs might matter.
Hmm
Epic, thanks for the advice ^w^
So... Speaking of sorcerers, what is your bloodline?
I also agree that "Charm Person" is an awesome spell, especially for kitsunes!
Hmm
I was literally about to message you asking the same thing! Right now,I choose shadow, I wanted to rift off of the nogitsune and i have black fur :P
What did you choose?
I'll just chime in that I am having a blast playing my kitsune ninja in PFS. The wakizashi is a good weapon, the shapeshifting has come in handy a couple of times, and getting to pull off a few Ninja Tricks has provided some good entertainment for my party members. I haven't used the bite yet, but that's mostly because I stay in human form to avoid questions...
So... Speaking of sorcerers, what is your bloodline?
I also agree that "Charm Person" is an awesome spell, especially for kitsunes!
Hmm
I was literally about to message you asking the same thing! Right now,I choose shadow, I wanted to rift off of the nogitsune and i have black fur :P
What did you choose?
I was looking at shadow weapon for one of my starter spells, since I get shadow bonuses, and later a enchantment one.
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You can use the Heirloom Weapon trait to give yourself katana proficiency.good to know! Do you think use of my only feat at lvl one would be good to use that on?
You're being misinformed. Heirloom Weapon can't be used for katana or wakazashi as they are both exotic weapons. Heirloom weapon only works for non-masterwork simple or martial weapons.
Say you have an heirloom longsword, if your race/class doesn't give you proficiency with longsword then you can use your heirloom longsword. However, you'll never be able to use another longsword without a nonproficiency penalty as you are only trained to use your single heirloom longsword.
That being said, you shouldn't be using a melee weapon (unless you're the sorcerer type that has a nautral weapon). At lvl 1 just learn acid splash (cantrip), have a vial of acid in your hand for +1 damage, and stand back and cast acid splash. It might not be the most fun, but it keeps you out of melee.
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I was literally about to message you asking the same thing! Right now,I choose shadow, I wanted to rift off of the nogitsune and i have black fur :P
What did you choose?
I like the Shadow bloodline a lot. I went with "Maestro." It's an odd choice, but it came with some good enchantment spells, and I liked its bloodline powers. Plus, I get to be a quasi-bard. Considering what a liar my character is, it's actually been a fun choice for me and I got to build a whole backstory out of training as an opera singer in the Kintargo Opera House in Cheliax, and then the White Grotto in Absalom.
If I was an optimizer, I might have chosen Serpentine for its arcana, but the bloodline powers did not appeal to me. I just didn't see my character biting people with poisonous bite attacks a lot. If you are a biter, it's not a bad choice considering that you gain diplomacy and your charm person could affect a bunch of different types of creatures...
Still, Shadow is a fun bloodline, and I advocate going where the fun is.
Hmm
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Kitsune are anthropomorphic/humanoid foxes. The anthropomorphic/humanoid cats and dogs get claw attacks, and foxes are related top both more closely to dogs. Even in Kitsune lore they have clawsThen where are you getting the claws from? The Bloodline?That and a race is always proficient with any natural weapons it has.according to paizo, it doesn't have claws
"Natural Weapons (Ex) In her natural form, a kitsune has a bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage."
While that is true in RL lore in Pathfinder they do not have claw attacks naturally, if they did they would be proficient in them but they simply don't have them.
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The only thing that bugs me about kitsune in Pathfinder is that their true form is not the fox shape (which would match the legends) but the anthropomorphic fox/human hybrid. It also bugs me that they put a BAB requirement on Fox Shape feat. Why is it easier for fighters to turn into foxes than sorcerers?
But other than that, I really love Kitsune! They are my favorite of the Pathfinder races, and I am having a blast playing one. I am so happy they are PFS-legal!
Hmm
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You're being misinformed. Heirloom Weapon can't be used for katana or wakazashi as they are both exotic weapons. Heirloom weapon only works for non-masterwork simple or martial weapons.You can use the Heirloom Weapon trait to give yourself katana proficiency.good to know! Do you think use of my only feat at lvl one would be good to use that on?
Couldn't you use it for a katana if you only wanted to two-hand it? I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that it was like the bastard sword. Martial when two-handed, and exotic when one-handed.
(Not in any way OP - at that point it's just a falchion which averages .5 less damage & has deadly - likely the least useful weapon ability in the game)
ah i see. how does stuff like that work with receiving XP at battles end? I know in the past when I have focused on aiding more than attacking my XP suffered since I didn't land many hit.
The only person who can answer questions like that is your DM, because he must be using some funky homebrewed system for xp.
AFAIK, no version of D&D has ever based experience awards on the number of times you "land a hit".
As a spellcaster, you should get experience right along with everyone else, even if you didn't personally inflict a single hit point of damage. Many of the most powerful spells don't actually inflict damage at all. Read up on some of the wizard optimisation guides, if you think wizards (or sorcerors) are all about blasting. My favorite quote went along the lines of "blasting is for purely recreational purposes".
If you're "aiding" the party in any way, shape or form, then you should get full xp - not a point less than the top cuisinart sword-swinger in the group.
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Bonuses to confirm crits are very useful to crit-fisher builds. Which if you are using a Katana, chances are you are crit-fishing.
Not in any way OP - at that point it's just a falchion which averages .5 less damage & has deadly - likely the least useful weapon ability in the game)
If that's what it did - 'deadly' would be awesome. However, all 'deadly' does is increase the DC for your coup de grace.
Oh - and I just double-checked. The katana CAN be used two-handed as a martial weapon.
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You're being misinformed. Heirloom Weapon can't be used for katana or wakazashi as they are both exotic weapons. Heirloom weapon only works for non-masterwork simple or martial weapons.You can use the Heirloom Weapon trait to give yourself katana proficiency.good to know! Do you think use of my only feat at lvl one would be good to use that on?Couldn't you use it for a katana if you only wanted to two-hand it? I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that it was like the bastard sword. Martial when two-handed, and exotic when one-handed.
(Not in any way OP - at that point it's just a falchion which averages .5 less damage & has deadly - likely the least useful weapon ability in the game)
Yeah, that's right. I just went off of what someone else above said ("you can't use katana but can use wakazashi"). You could take Heirloom Weapon for katana as a martial weapon and use it with two-handed.
If you really want claws to complement your Sorcerer, Draconic bloodline gives them. That would allow you Bite/Claw/Claw.
I do NOT recommend this since it takes a lot of work to make a Sorcerer good in melee.
Instead look for a bloodline that calls to you. Shadow is fine, there are plenty of good ones to pick from.
Once you have decided on a bloodline, look at what bloodline spells you get. Mark off any that are Enchantments since the Kitsune get a bonus to enchantments. Pick spells that complement the bloodline powers and spells.
Shadow gives stealth as a skill and gives a bonus to stealth when casting darkness or shadow spells. Look at Sniping under the Stealth skill, you will want to see if you can find a way to pull that off with a spell.
I haven't played a sorcerer with this bloodline so I haven't really looked at it closely. Work to the bloodline's strengths and see what you come up with.
Have fun!
So I have joined a new group where everyone is animalistic in the party. I choose to play a sorcerer kitsune and I am looking at this, maybe its just me, but it seems kinda flawed. The official (no 3rd party.DM wont allow it) race can only use simple weapons, which means it can't even use a katana, and can't even use its claws. I was hoping to use those to make up for my lack of spell in the lower level, plus a monster of Asian mythology, not being able to use a Asian blade is just wrong. Can anyone help me not be so weak at lower levels.I am not really used to this whole, "magic known" stuff. I chose to go with the shadow bloodline and chaotic neutral to rift of the nogitsune, since that doesn't exist either.Kitsune in asian stories arent' always blade chopping dervishes. Their other role is frequently a multi-tailed magician of mystery who doesn't fight at all.
Maybe you should have gone magus instead?
I know,but blades are fun =p
Also a sorcerer was STRONGLY suggested by the dm|
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While sorcerer Kitsune are very, very fun and very capable if you're looking for a more martial version of the Kitsune you might wish to consider a bard. They wonderfully combine martial ability and a trickster nature. There are several Eastern flavored archetypes or just reflavour a non eastern bard.
Or even multi class a martial type and go towards eldritch knight.
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To be fair I wouldnt worry too much about it. If youre focusing this heavily on melee as a sorcerer youll probably be dead soon enough and time to reroll
I don't view this as an "upside."
Seriously though, I'd let others do the melee and do what you do best -- magic. Sorcerers can be a ton of fun, whatever path you take.
Hmm
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Bonuses to confirm crits are very useful to crit-fisher builds. Which if you are using a Katana, chances are you are crit-fishing.
Not in any way OP - at that point it's just a falchion which averages .5 less damage & has deadly - likely the least useful weapon ability in the game)If that's what it did - 'deadly' would be awesome. However, all 'deadly' does is increase the DC for your coup de grace.
Oh - and I just double-checked. The katana CAN be used two-handed as a martial weapon.
Crap. I could have sworn it gave a +2 to confim crits. Must have been a house rule.
However, +4 to the fort DC on a CdG is more useful than grapple.
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Crap. I could have sworn it gave a +2 to confim crits. Must have been a house rule.Was the person using is a samurai? They have a class ability which gives them a +2 to confirm crits at level 3 with one of four weapons. (most notably the katana)
That's probably it. The last time I played with someone using one, it was a samuari using katana/wakizashi TWF.
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It depends on what sort of player is doing the Kitsune with FCB. For my Maestro Sorcerer, I used the FCB so I didn't have to pick up Skill Focus Enchantment and instead do Realistic Likeness, Skill Focus Knowledge Local, and Eldritch Heritage Arcane for a Familiar. I didn't go for optimal, just fun.
Hmm