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Ok, so for the first time I am playing something that throws things and am reading the splash weapon rules with due diligence.
My question is this:
Does a splash weapon that did not target a large creature deal splash damage to every square it affects that the creature is in?
In other words: Normally a splash weapon would deal splash damage to a 9x9 area (centered on the middle square, AC 5). Does each SQUARE take splashing... or each MONSTER in "a" square?
layout:
LLLL
LLLL
.OxO
.OOO
....
.A..
A = Alchemist throws a splash weapon at x. L's represent the Large opponent. O's are say Orcs. The alchemist does 1+Int Bonus to each Orc... but what about the Large creature? Does it take 1+Int or 1+Int times three?
Seems like all three squares would be splashed... but at the same time I see the obvious abuse possibilities.
RAW says that you can pick a square to hit a large monster, and it damages all the squares around it with splash... which indicates that the large monster, aimed directly at, might take additional splash damage from the splash weapon as well (for each 5 foot square the splash hits). Help?
No, for the same reason a large creature doesn't take quadruple damage from a Fireball.
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No, for the same reason a large creature doesn't take quadruple damage from a Fireball.
RAW: "If the target is Large or larger, you choose one of its squares and the splash damage affects creatures within 5 feet of that square."
ONCE is implied? Alright. I might accept that, even though it makes perfect sense that a fireball (magic effect) would only affect something once. While all rules for physical effects tend to be able to affect things more than once (going through a wall of flame as a conjured effect or just as a trap someone made does damage for each 5' you move through, etc... )...
But I would point out that a large creature stepping in two acid traps at the same time would take damage from each square a trap was in (ie. each square acid was in).
A.A. LLLL comes along and moves into position over A.A. - sets off two traps of acid, and is affected by both... so why, when a splash of acid hits AAA. would it be any different (being non-magical, and thus "different" from magic damage)?
See why I am thinking they SHOULD take multiplied damage? All rules on PHYSICAL manifestations do multiple damage per SQUARE... not per spell effect (like magic). Keeping in mind, also, you can DODGE a fireball, but apparently not splash damage... go figure.
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Each creature within the splash takes damage once, regardless of how many squares they occupy.
Any FAQ to support this? The implication is there - but is kind of silly....
If I have the following setup:
OLO
OxO
OOO
...
A..
Then everyone takes splash damage, including the two orcs in the back. So the splash affects those squares... right?
But "magically" if I have
LLL
OxO
OOO
...
A..
Then the splash has NO EFFECT on the L.L squares... Why shouldn't a creature be considered 5' from x 3 times? He covers three squares that are 5' from x. We're saying that a creature basically "soaks" the acid in the other two squares (for no good reason) that would otherwise damage creatures in those squares (if they weren't a single creature). This is what makes little sense (logically) to me.
(ps. please ignore my ignorance to the number of squares a Large critter takes up (10x10)... I was more illustrating a point than trying to worry about this)
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Also in interesting "each creature gets hit once" variant of the "accepted" interpretation...
I have the following setup:
SSS
SxS
SSS
8 Swarms of 100 creatures... does that mean I do 800 points of damage with one splash weapon? Or are now you suddenly going to apply 1 point of damage against the SQUARE instead (thus applying only to the entire swarm once)? (and if it were a single huge swarm it would do even LESS damage, taking either 1 damage or 1d6 from the x square (which it would also occupy, being 15x15) and NONE else from your interpretation... which makes little to no sense, when you think about it...)
You have misinterpreted your quote about large creatures.
"If the target is Large or larger, you choose one of its squares and the splash damage affects creatures within 5 feet of that square."
This statement is talking about splash area. What it's saying is, when you throw a splash weapon at a large creature, you select 1 of the creature's squares as the square of origin for the splash radius.
Creatures are only ever effected by area effects once, regardless of how many squares they fill.
In regard to your question about swarms: A swarm is a single creature regardless of what it's made up of, thus an area effect would only affect a swarm once.
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Well, thanks for the discussion... I am going to run it based on logic and RAW instead of the failed "its like a fireball" - which it isn't.
If I rained acid down all over the top of a monster
HHH
HHH
HHH
It would be covered in acid and take 9 points of acid damage (one for each square). It would count as separate attacks (so if it had DR OR resistance it would do basically nothing).
I just can't equate
HHH
SHH
HHH
with being "exactly the same" as
HHH
HHH
SSS
or
SSS
SSS
HHH
or
SSS
SSS
SSS
Of course you would do more physical damage to something the more of it you hit. Anything else is like saying that if you smash all your fingers on one hand with a hammer, it won't hurt you any more than if you just hit your thumb. Which, just... makes... no... sense... to... me.
Also, the fireball argument is completely horrible, fallacious, and wrong... fireball is magic, and only affects something once... lasting fire walls and obstacles (terrain) affect per 5' squares you move though... acid is way more like that than a fireball. Splash weapon damage is not magical, it is physical, like terrain damage.
I've had similar discussions regarding magic damage versus physically manifestations before... I have to run with the "logic" of real physics when dealing with real physics items.
"area affects" and "splash damage" are simply. not. the. same. thing. "if you target a grid intersection, creatures in all adjacent squares are dealt the splash damage," - ALL being the important part to me... not ONE/ONCE/only once... Are you in an the first adjacent square? Take damage. Are you in the next adjacent square? Take damage. Are you in the next? Take damage... and so on... Not "are you a creature in at least ONE adjacent square, take damage once please."
It just seems to be the logical (if abuse-able) way to run it.
Do you move through the first 5' of fire/bramble wall? take damage. Do you move through the next 5' of fire/bramble wall? take damage. The next? Take damage.
(ps. I'd love a FAQ quote to lay out a logical reason otherwise... but splash weapons are "real physics" weapons, and I think they should be treated as such, as opposed to magic area effect spells which are not (typically))
Why are you wasting your time asking the Rules Question board questions if you're just going to ignore what people and do what you want?
Just ask your DM if you're not going to believe the people posting in your thread.
Also, Alemist Bombs are magic. It's a supernatural ability, meaning it's a magical effect that doesn't work in areas without magic.
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OK. My final ruling on the entire "splash effects" thing are thus:
A targeted splash weapon hits one creature and splashes 5' in each direction PROVIDED that direction is not blocked by a creature (partial cover) or object (partial cover).
This keeps a splash weapons thrown by ANYONE from doing 900 points to diminutive creatures in a 15'x15' grid, 225 points to tiny creatures in a 15'x15' grid (room full of cats... are they alive or dead?), or 36 points to small creatures trapped in a 15'x15' room (Gnomes, Halfling slaves, Svirfbenlin, etc..).
The splash effect pattern is the same for diminutive, tiny, small as it is for medium. Large creatures block the other three squares they occupy when struck. Huge creatures block the other squares they occupy when hit in the middle square (and thus take no additional splash damage).
This allows a splash person to indirectly hit a Large creature with 2 points of splash damage by targeting the square next to them (they got hit with 2x as much acid, so why wouldn't they take 2x as much damage) and a Huge creature to possibly take 3 points of splash damage in the same manner (again, they were splashed with 3x as much acid).
It prevents any splash weapon person from effecting more than 9 combatants at a time (a reasonable limit ignored by sizes as pointed out above by the "regular" rule).
I think this is fine and logical. Sorry if you disagree with the idea that a large or huge monster might be affected more than once, but I see this as entirely logical (and they get DR versus all splash damages as separate attacks... its not magic, after all...).
They had 3x the acid land on them... they still have a tough hide in all three spots... only 1 point in each spot... soak it if you can Mr. Monster. Their entire side got sprayed (right front foot, torso, right hind foot), so they should take more damage than if only their right front foot got sprayed... if DR doesn't nullify it.
(also, I am not talking about alchemical BOMBS... I am talking about normal SPLASH WEAPONS - non-magical ones; a fireball and an alchemical bomb would affect everyone in the area of effect... splash weapons I don't really see working that way, from a physics standpoint)
Why would a medium creature, who is covered entirely by the splash area, take less damage than a large creature, who just got hit on one side?
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I think I win for most XP in one turn after discussing this:
Pit full of vipers, 15'x15'... 225 vipers. One splash weapon. Add int to damage as an alchemist. 675 Damage (well, not counting hp below zero).
45,000 XP. Thanks 1st to 7th level jump!
(ps. if you can buy a viper for less than 1 GP, I think this is the best value for XP ever :) )
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Why would a medium creature, who is covered entirely by the splash area, take less damage than a large creature, who just got hit on one side?
Because the medium creature only got 1 ounce of acid on them. the large creature took 2 ounces of acid, and the huge one took 3 ounces of acid splash... each ounce did 1 damage... why can't people understand the logic behind this?
Or as a rebuttal: Why would a large creature standing where acid splashed over his whole side take the same damage as when just half his side was splashed? 50% less acid does the same damage/has the same effect... hmmm... never learned THAT trick in College Chem class...
I think I win for most XP in one turn after discussing this:
Pit full of vipers, 15'x15'... 225 vipers. One splash weapon. Add int to damage as an alchemist. 675 Damage (well, not counting hp below zero).
45,000 XP. Thanks 1st to 7th level jump!
(ps. if you can buy a viper for less than 1 GP, I think this is the best value for XP ever :) )
Go home, maouse, you are drunk.
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Oh, you're asking about houserules. I'll flag this to be moved.
As written is only hits adjacent creatures once. If you're going to make it hit Large creatures multiple times (4, because it would splash up as well) you should also give them 8x as many hit points (because they're 8 times as large) or reduce the damage by 1/8th in each square because it only hits part of the creature.
Bobby, you don't know what you're talking about.
It's a Core Rule that says that creatures standing 5 feet from the point of where the acid hits takes 1 Point of Damage.
If you hit a Large creature that takes up a 10x10 square that means it gets hit in multiple squares - that's ridiculous, but that's how the rules work.
lol, you are arguing with a nearly 4 year old thread. Thank you for the laugh.
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If the monster was like this:
A-B-B
...B-Band you hit the Bolded "B" in the bottom right corner then the "spread effect" would expand to all of "B" as it's a Large Creature that occupies a 10x10 square.
From the SRD via Acid Flask - Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the acid hits takes 1 point of acid damage from the splash.
Since a LARGE Creature has 5 feet in multiple directions that means that it suffers that 1 point of "Splash damage" defined in the rules in the smaller sections.
The Large Creature doesn't take the 1d6 Damage in each square; just the one you hit, but the "Splash Damage" via the SRD says that it takes 1 point of damage in the squares touching the target you hit.
That's pretty basic.
Um, no.
You choose 1 square of the 4 squares a Large creature takes up to determine the area of the splash damage. The large creature however was still the initial target and takes the full damage of the splash weapon. In your diagram creature A is not within the area of splash damage and thus wouldn't be hit by any of the splash. The Large creature would not take any splash damage even if it is occupying the splash area because it was the original target. These rules are here to prevent the splash from damaging 12 possible targets after hitting a large creature because they happen to be adjacent to the target.
A-B-B-C
....B-B-C
....C-C-CHowever any creature "C" would get splash damage if you hit the Bold B square.
--School of Vrock
lmao what is going on here