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I’ve been playing around with some of the new toys from the Advanced Class Guide, and I’ve slapped together what I think would be a fun build, a dex-based whip reach warpriest.
The build suffers some at levels 1 and 2, before whip mastery comes into play. At these levels, the warpriest will be relying on a rapier for combat and doing pathetic damage; she might do best by focusing on buffing allies with spells and blessings, and using the whip to disarm and trip at reach.
At level 3 the whip works on armored opponents, doesn’t provoke, can do lethal damage, and adds dex to its damage. At level 5 the whip threatens at reach and has the damage die of a longsword. At that point the warpriest is a serious menace on the battlefield. I do wish I could think of a way to make the build better for the first two levels, however.
Calistria would be the obvious choice of deity, but Selket would be reasonable in Mummy’s Mask and similar campaigns where the ancient Osirion gods aren’t off the table. Jalaijatali’s portfolio isn’t ideal and she’s a deep cut, but aceeptable if you can pronounce her name consistently. Alternately, you could try to convince your GM that a worshipper of Ahriman or Moloch won’t derail the campaign, that a warpriest of Llamolaek or Lissala would totally be hopping around current-day Golarion, or that your human was raised by a half-boggard troll and so worships Dahak or Gorgunta.
Using enlarge person potions is a mixed bag for this warpriest. The damamge die increase is great and the long reach is just golden, but she takes -2 to hit. Still, I think it’s worth it in combat against low AC foes.
Human Warpriest
Str 10 Con 14 Dex 18 Wis 14 Int 10 Cha 10 (20 point buy, dump int and cha for dex if you prefer a min-maxed version)
Traits: Fortune’s Favored, Accelerated Drinker
Feats
L1:Weapon Focus (Whip), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes
L3: Whip Mastery, Slashing Grace (Whip)
L5: Improved Whip Mastery
L6: Weapon Specialization (Whip)
L7: Serpent’s Lash
L9: Greater Whip Mastery (or Greater Serpent’s Lash), Greater Weapon Focus (Whip)
L11: Divine Interference
L12: Pin Down (!)
Take Luck and Trickery Blessings (if worshipping Calistria) or Good and Protection (if Selket) or Good and Water (if Jalaijatali).
I was considering a build like this with a dip in swashbuckler at level 1, but that really isn't necessary is it? Nice work!
why not slashing grace at lvl 1? there's no 1 bab req
you aren't getting aoos with the whip yet anyway...
Because Slashing Grace without Whip Mastery isn’t very useful. Doing damage with a whip without Whip Mastery is iffy in any case--few opponents have no armor and no natural armor.
On the other hand, Combat Reflexes is somewhat helpful to this build before its whip abilities kick in. The warpriest can take AoEs with a rapier (no reach, bleah) or a longspear (no Weapon Finesse, bleah), which is better than nothing.
This is not legal. You do not have the BAB to access it at that level. You only get fighter/BAB level for bonus feats.
L5: Improved Whip Mastery
L6: Weapon Specialization (Whip)
L7: Serpent’s Lash
Hmm, that’s unfortunate. Then I guess the feats would go:
L5: Serpent’s Lash
L6: Weapon Specialization (Whip)
L7: Improved Whip Mastery
Though if you really want to get your AoE on as soon as possible, you could go:
L5: Serpent’s Lash
L6: Improved Whip Mastery, then at the end of the level, you retrain Improved Whip Mastery to Weapon Specialization (Whip), then....
L7: Improved Whip Mastery
It would set you back five days and 300 gp, a small price to pay for one more level of whip-crackin’ goodness.
Depending on your blessing choices, it may be worthwhile to wedge Quicken Blessing somewhere into his feat choices...I wonder if Serpent's Lash is at all helpful in this build. You only have a partial BAB, and nothing in the build really gives a substantial bonus to your trip or disarm attempts. Sure, you won't provoke, but you won't accomplish much either.
I’m hoping Warpriest buffs let the build keep pace with full BAB classes when it comes to maneuvers. Sadly, Cat’s Grace is not on the warpriest list. However, the warpriest’s Sacred Weapon ability boosts the enhancement bonus of her weapon when it’s used to trip and disarm (and grapple, given Greater Whip Mastery), so there’s some silver lining.
At first level, after a swift action, this build has a +7 to trip or a +9 to disarm at 15’, which is reasonable vs. CR 3 or less humanoid opponents. At level six, after two swift actions, assuming a +2 whip and a +2 dex belt, it has a +16 to trip and a +18 to disarm, and can do either as an attack of opportunity at 10’, which is reasonable vs. CR 8 or less humanoid opponents.
Serpent’s Lash is probably the most replaceable feat on the list, however. Swapping in Craft Magical Arms and Armor would make a whole lot of sense in many campaigns, making the build less dependant on outside supplies of magical whips. Crafting your own celestial full plate and celestial shield is appealing too. But I suspect that Quicken Blessing is probably the one to grab.
Thanks all!
just as a note, Selket has a favored weapon of scorpion whip... not whip, which is an exotic weapon slot you would have to account for somewhere. So you would need Whip and scorpion whip to make that work Which is one of the things that turned me off of that build
I’d rather wrestle with actual scorpions than with the whole whip/scorpion whip confusion.
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good one and i dont blame you. Has that been settled on another thread somewhere?I’d rather wrestle with actual scorpions than with the whole whip/scorpion whip confusion.just as a note, Selket has a favored weapon of scorpion whip... not whip, which is an exotic weapon slot you would have to account for somewhere. So you would need Whip and scorpion whip to make that work Which is one of the things that turned me off of that build
Not that I'm aware of.
Of course, you could be a Half-orc, gain proficiency from the city-raised alternate race trait, and worship whatever god you choose. You can makeup the human bonus feat by taking the human FCB to get an extra feat at 6. It's slower to get all the whip feats, but it's stronger once you get there thanks to Darkvision, free endurance, and Sacred Tattoo on top of the whip prof. You can also take the tusked trait for a bite attack to use before you get whip mastery.
Not sure if anyone is checking this yet, but I would love some advice on 9th level feats for a Whip/Warpriest build. So far I've got
1) Weapon Focus (Whip)
2) Weapon Finesse
3) Combat Reflexes
4) Whip Mastery
5) Dirty Fighting (a much better version of Combat Expertise from a splat book)
6) Improved Whip Mastery
7) Improved TripI'm leaning away from the Serpent's lash feat tree, since I'm not really sure I see a huge benefit for it to be worth the two feats. One option would be Greater Weapon Focus, but with divine favor hitting typically hasn't been a problem.
Currently I am considering Greater Whip Mastery and Weapon Specialization. Has anyone used Greater Whip Mastery to grapple opponents with a whip? It seems like it would only be occasionally useful. For Weapon Specialization, I am finding myself attacking just as frequently as tripping for various reasons (lots of NPCs who can't be tripped or have ridiculous CMD's at high tiers or PFS groups with lots of casters/ranged attackers that don't benefit from trips), so the damage bonus might be nice.
Does anyone have any other recommendations for useful feats?
Nice Necro on the Thread. Usually after this amount of time you would just create a new thread.
But IMHO Dex is Do-able...But STR based will save you some feats and also allow for other things in the build. No need for all the dex to damage and CBMs. Just seems the class is better designed for it. But I do like weapons like Whips, Sling-staffs, and daggers on a Warpriest. I think they fit well with the class. Nothing like a guy in full plate pulling out a dagger or whip and slaying a dragon with it.
I would love some advice on 9th level feats for a Whip/Warpriest build. So far I've got
1) Weapon Focus (Whip)
2) Weapon Finesse
3) Combat Reflexes
4) Whip Mastery
5) Dirty Fighting (a much better version of Combat Expertise from a splat book)
6) Improved Whip Mastery
7) Improved TripI'm leaning away from the Serpent's lash feat tree, since I'm not really sure I see a huge benefit for it to be worth the two feats. .... Has anyone used Greater Whip Mastery to grapple opponents with a whip? It seems like it would only be occasionally useful...Does anyone have any other recommendations for useful feats?
Don't forget Slashing Grace! You need it for dex to damage. Weapon Specialization, as you say, will make you hit harder too.
Greater Serpent Lash has potential beyond the extra disarms and trips. For example, you could reposition a vulnerable foe from 15' in front of you to 15' behind you, where your ally with the deadly full melee attack is waiting. In this case you might want to invest in Improved Reposition and Quick Reposition rather than Trip. But I would probably not go for maneuver boosting feats, not wanting to pay the combat expertise/dirty fighting feat tax.
I would think grappling with a whip would be more generally useful than tripping with a whip, but you do run into the problem that you can't take more AoOs while grappling.
Instead of Accelerated Drinker as I originally suggested, I'd now go for the Opportunistic or Prehensile Whip traits. However, Accelerated Drinker would work well with potions of Longarm, rather than potions of Enlarge Person.
Dex is Do-able...But STR based will save you some feats and also allow for other things in the build.
The beauty of the dex build is that you get lots and lots of extra attacks out of combat reflexes.
Dex is Do-able...But STR based will save you some feats and also allow for other things in the build.The beauty of the dex build is that you get lots and lots of extra attacks out of combat reflexes.
I'm aware. They are nice. But Strength build does not need Weapon finesse, Slashing Grace, and Agile Maneuver. You also get Power attack for damage.
Basically Dex= Less damage but more hits
Strength= More damage, 2-3 less feats required, and Better Combat maneuver without feat investments.
It is a trade off.
But since the Thread Necromancer is stuck with Dex it hardly matters. But for any new people looking at this type of build they atleast get to know the pros and Cons.
Warpriest is one of the few classes where there are enough Feats available that the player doesn't have to worry about something being Feat-intensive. A Human Warpriest gets 21 total Feats; that's only 1 less than a Human Fighter.
Dex is Do-able...But STR based will save you some feats and also allow for other things in the build.The beauty of the dex build is that you get lots and lots of extra attacks out of combat reflexes.I'm aware. They are nice. But Strength build does not need Weapon finesse, Slashing Grace, and Agile Maneuver. You also get Power attack for damage.
Basically Dex= Less damage but more hits
Strength= More damage, 2-3 less feats required, and Better Combat maneuver without feat investments.
It is a trade off.
With many of the new choices in feats and things available I still worry about feats.
Not to mention hardly do you ever go past 12 in PFS and getting to 20 hardly ever happens. Then there are so many good feats out there you will want. Like Quicken Blessing and such so that does reduce what wiggle room you can play with.
But yes if your going up to Level 20 you have no worries but in most cases you will not get there and struggling for a few levels till you get all your feats online can also be painful and the difference between life and death.
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Another option for whip based characters is to take the Enforcer feat from APG, which gives a free intimidate check to demoralize enemies when you deal non-lethal damage. This gives another option for something to do besides just damage when tripping isn't an option.
I've considered making a strength based whip warpriest who does this with Intimidating Prowess to add strength to intimidate checks. I just haven't gotten around to making that one yet, since I already have more PCs than I know what to do with in PFS.
Another option for whip based characters is to take the Enforcer feat from APG, which gives a free intimidate check to demoralize enemies when you deal non-lethal damage. This gives another option for something to do besides just damage when tripping isn't an option.
I've considered making a strength based whip warpriest who does this with Intimidating Prowess to add strength to intimidate checks. I just haven't gotten around to making that one yet, since I already have more PCs than I know what to do with in PFS.
Very do-able Fromper. I do like Enforcer builds. Good extra things in combat to do with all those feats.
If you're just wanting to be really good with a whip, the fighter is probably a better choice. With the focused weapon advanced weapon training, you can get the warpriest damage die paired with the fighter's weapon training.
It's slower to start, but you can go eldritch guardian fighter with this and an improved familiar to have a whip wielding sidekick who shares all of your whip feats.
If you're just wanting to be really good with a whip, the fighter is probably a better choice. With the focused weapon advanced weapon training, you can get the warpriest damage die paired with the fighter's weapon training.
It's slower to start, but you can go eldritch guardian fighter with this and an improved familiar to have a whip wielding sidekick who shares all of your whip feats.
This made me laugh and then gave me a few good ideas...thanks. UMD and all those Item mastery feats to sprinkle on now....Fighter really is starting to look very sexy.
I would love some advice on 9th level feats for a Whip/Warpriest build. So far I've got
1) Weapon Focus (Whip)
2) Weapon Finesse
3) Combat Reflexes
4) Whip Mastery
5) Dirty Fighting (a much better version of Combat Expertise from a splat book)
6) Improved Whip Mastery
7) Improved TripI'm leaning away from the Serpent's lash feat tree, since I'm not really sure I see a huge benefit for it to be worth the two feats. .... Has anyone used Greater Whip Mastery to grapple opponents with a whip? It seems like it would only be occasionally useful...Does anyone have any other recommendations for useful feats?
Don't forget Slashing Grace! You need it for dex to damage. Weapon Specialization, as you say, will make you hit harder too.
Greater Serpent Lash has potential beyond the extra disarms and trips. For example, you could reposition a vulnerable foe from 15' in front of you to 15' behind you, where your ally with the deadly full melee attack is waiting. In this case you might want to invest in Improved Reposition and Quick Reposition rather than Trip. But I would probably not go for maneuver boosting feats, not wanting to pay the combat expertise/dirty fighting feat tax.
I would think grappling with a whip would be more generally useful than tripping with a whip, but you do run into the problem that you can't take more AoOs while grappling.
Instead of Accelerated Drinker as I originally suggested, I'd now go for the Opportunistic or Prehensile Whip traits. However, Accelerated Drinker would work well with potions of Longarm, rather than potions of Enlarge Person.
Dex is Do-able...But STR based will save you some feats and also allow for other things in the build.The beauty of the dex build is that you get lots and lots of extra attacks out of combat reflexes.
Cant let this go. I was hoping to do a Spiked Chain Warpriest but the chain was nerfed, and now im hoping to pull a whip guy.. I much prefer the reposition possibility than a tripper..
A Str-based whip using Warpriest that doesnt suck at first levels. I guess thats impossible at lvl 1 and I would have to use a simple weapon while it catches up?
Also, in RoTR giants might hard to CMD..
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@lex_dm: Leaving aside some minor thread necromancy, here's one way to do something vaguely similar that definitely does not suck at 1st level. Doesn't work for a warpriest, only for a Cleric, Inquisitor, or Paladin that gets a Domain. 1st level damage is huge plus you can safely use most maneuvers. Please don't play this build in a non-optimized group, as such a PC will drastically outperform most other low level martial PCs.
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If you don't care about maneuvers, I'm playing this Dex-based Warpriest build (currently at 7th level) in PFS and having a lot of fun with it.
Worships Matravash
STR 11 (+1 8th) DEX 20 (17 +2racial, +1 4th) CON 14 INT 7 WIS 16 CHA 7
Doesn't include items.
Favored Class Bonus for WP levels 3-8 goes to 1/6 Bonus Feat
L1 UMonk 1: Weapon Finesse, B) Combat Reflexes, B) Stunning Fist, B) Improved Unarmed Strike, H) Phalanx Formation, Flurry of Blows
L2 WP 1: B) EWP (Whip), B) Weapon Focus (Whip), Sacred Weapon (1d6), Community and Travel Blessings
L3 WP 2: Whip Mastery, Fervor
L4 WP 3: B) Slashing Grace->Improved Whip Mastery (Retraining at 6th after purchasing an Agile whip)
L5 WP 4: Crusader's Flurry, Channel Energy, Sacred Weapon +1
L6 LW 1: B) Martial Focus (Flails-Includes Whip), Knowledge Skills as Class Skills
L7 WP 5: Difficult Swings, Fervor 2D6, Sacred Weapon (1d8)
L8 WP 6: B) Weapon Specialization (Whip)
L9 WP 7: Lunge, Sacred Armor +1
L10 WP 8: FCB) Greater Weapon Focus (Whip), Fervor 3D6, Sacred Weapon +2
L11 WP 9: Improved Critical (Whip), B) Power Attack
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack
It's a lot of system gymnastics to get the build where it needs to be to do what it's meant to do as early as possible, due to BAB requirements on feats.
The build does have a distinct lack of skills, with only 2 skill points/level most levels (2 from Warpriest -2 INT (Min 1) +1 Human)
But with divine favor going and 2 attacks with no penalties, he's incredibly accurate and can attack over allies with no penalties. Difficult Swings means enemies can't 5-foot step close to you, which means more AoOs.
The Strength-based Longspear build Magda advocates is a lot more straightforward and easier to optimize. But this one is a lot of fun in its own way.
@lex_dm: Leaving aside some minor thread necromancy, here's one way to do something vaguely similar that definitely does not suck at 1st level. Doesn't work for a warpriest, only for a Cleric, Inquisitor, or Paladin that gets a Domain. 1st level damage is huge plus you can safely use most maneuvers. Please don't play this build in a non-optimized group, as such a PC will drastically outperform most other low level martial PCs.
Wow :o Powerful indeed. Sounds like a superhero. Thank you. Cant say ill use him cause like you said, too OP. I am leaning toward an Inquisitor, just not sure what yet, I really dont want to do an archer though I know the multiple attacks benefit from the awesome Bane ability. A tank inquisitor sounds good, vital strike..? though limiting the bane attack to 1 hit sounds bad.