Arcanist Optimization Guide


Advice

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The Exchange

AZGrowler wrote:
The big advantage of the Blade Adept is the black blade.

To this point, Blade Adept is one of the only ways to get a full Arcane Bond with progression with Arcanist. If you use Bloodline Development [Arcane], you can only have access to 1st-level spells unless you use an arcane point (with duration of CHA bonus)to temporarily apply your Arcanist levels.

And, it opens the door for Improved Arcane Bond, which would also be true with Bloodline Development, except that you would still have to keep paying for it over and over with arcane points to get the upper-level advantages. The Enora pregen text glosses over the arcane point cost to "cast any spell from her spellbook" and requires the player to know the text of Bloodline Development.

Similarly, this point use issue with Bloodline Development would also seem to impact familiars, implying that they have only temporary progression with arcane point use.

The Exchange

The only caveat to my previous comment is that Improved Arcane Bond is a 3rd Party (non-Paizo) feat and maybe also somewhat overpowered. But, if allowed/used in your campaign, it would be an interesting combo.


With Pathfinder Unchained out, it offers some unique opportunities to optimize certain builds of Arcanists in unique ways. Namely through the 'secondary class' variant multi-classing, with Wizard.

They do give up several feats in exchange for the powers, at 3,7,11,15,and 19.

3. Familiar. Always useful.

7. Pick a School, Functions as your character level = wizard level. You do not gain the 20th level capstone ability of the school, however you do not need to spend points to power it to be at your level like school understanding.

11. A cantrip, probably the worst trade at such a high powered feat level but, whatever.

15. A wizard arcane discovery!

19. The 8th level ability of the school.

Take a Blood Arcanist, blaster, for example. Taking Orc Bloodline, and Evocation Admixture from the secondary class wizard. +1 Damage per dice for all spells, as well as a +1 Damage for every 2 levels, without needing to fuel it with your arcane pool, as well as the ability to change the element, and have it be INT/day instead of CHA/day.

Essentially becoming a 'slower progressed' blockbuster wizard. Of course the admixture doesn't 'come online' until 7th level, but usually you won't need it by then anyway.

The biggest downside in my opinion would be setting back Spell Perfection to 17th level, as the 15th level feat is given up for an Arcane Discovery, which is very powerful in it's own right. (True Name anyone?)

Then there is a Brown Fur Transmuter with - Oh let's say Conjuration Teleportation. (Again, not having to spend points on 'upping the level' of how far you can teleport is wonderful. Those points are spent on buffing people, after all.) With Dimensional Agility (Feat) you can move around the battlefield like a crazy person, coupled with the Dimensional Slide ability. - Slide in, Buff the Fighter, Step out. - INT based, as well for uses per day.

Eventually gaining, Idealize as an Arcane Discovery, at which point you could Bull's Strength someone for 8. Higher than the best non-epic item, at 20th, Both the BFT buffing increases by +2 as well as Idealize. +12 STR Bull's Strength, coupled with crazy size alterations that you could toss on your fighter. Of course nothing is stopping you from just buffing your int by +12, coupled with Potent Magic to raise DCs. Truly become a God of Perfection.


Tamur Mirza: Thank you for this. I haven't taken a look at Unchained yet but I plan on it. This is good information in the meantime and certainly has my interest.

Dark Archive

You can't multiclass arcanist with wizard and/or sorcerer.


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SirPeter wrote:
You can't multiclass arcanist with wizard and/or sorcerer.

Yes you can.

The final version of the book says, "Parent Classes: Each one of the following classes lists two classes that it draws upon to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don’t stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline)."


SirPeter: Don't feel bad. In the play test you were correct. This was a change they made when the printed version of the book went out. There are several people (including myself) who are strongly opposed to that rule change.

Dark Archive

Thank you for the advice!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So I realize this is only a good idea if you are starting play at higher levels... but wouldn't a one level dip into a Lame Oracle make the Eldritch Font freaking bonkers once it becomes immune to Fatigued? Like, +2 CL and DC on every spell you cast? And do the Improved and Greater Surge require a swift to activate still? Even if you can only use one form of surge a turn, that's a pretty nuts boost in power and versatility, especially if you're one of those blaster types.

For your one revelation, you want something that doesn't need to scale with level. The Spellscarred Mystic Null gives a +2 insight bonus to saves against spells and spell like abilities. Freezing Spell from Winter is cool if you are going down that road. Planar Haze of Outer Rifts opens some doors. Or just grab Cinder Step to avoid the Lame movement penalty. War Sight and Battlefield Clarity from Battle could take the cake though. Especially War Sight. Roll Twice every time for initiative!


Captain Morgan wrote:

So I realize this is only a good idea if you are starting play at higher levels... but wouldn't a one level dip into a Lame Oracle make the Eldritch Font freaking bonkers once it becomes immune to Fatigued? Like, +2 CL and DC on every spell you cast? And do the Improved and Greater Surge require a swift to activate still? Even if you can only use one form of surge a turn, that's a pretty nuts boost in power and versatility, especially if you're one of those blaster types.

She becomes fatigued upon using this ability. If she is already fatigued, she becomes exhausted. If she's already exhausted, or something would prevent her from becoming fatigued or exhausted, she cannot use this ability.

Prevents that from working I'm afraid.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The new ACG errata made several arcanist exploits and abilities more charisma-dependent, including the consume magic items exploit.


Including the very core "consume spell" ability.

I can't see an arcanists without something like 14 cha now. Having consume only 1/day would cripple the way I (personally) spam my arcane discoveries...


I probably will dump CHA even more due to this, since there's literally no difference between 7 CHA and 13 CHA in terms of consume spell.

I think the only change, for me, is that I won't even look at the Consume Magic Item exploit now, and will likely take School Savant with every Arcanist that I make. It also means no Alter Shifting or Shift Caster, no Counterspell, and delay Dimension Slide by a few more levels than I normally would. Probably will delay Metamixing as well.

Potent Spell and Quick Study all the way, as well as Familiar, Metamagic+Greater, and Item Crafting. I don't think 2/day for Consume Spell/Items is going to be that much different from 1/day, unless if you go for really high level slots and/or consume expensive items. Instead, I think I'll just consume the highest level spell that I have and just make up for it by nabbing a level 5 Runestone.

I wonder if this is going to tank the rating for Brown Fur Transmuter as well.


It's not just 2/day

With 14 cha it's easy to get a +2 cha ioun stone by lvl 8ish and have 3/day

If you dump Charisma no amount even a +6 cha headband wouldn't raise you above 1/day

And with just 1/day consume you have way too little arcane points to do "stuff"


I forgot that headbands of dual INT and CHA exist. I'm an idiot =x (though I guess it's more because I've never had to buy a multi-mental stat headband before, or +STAT Ioun Stones for that matter).

You're right, though. It's definitely a good incentive to get at least 12 CHA to start, in that case. Memorizing Eagle Splendor later on should be enough for any additional uses of Consume Spells once the reservoir runs empty. (Yep, I forgot the temp ability bonus rule as well.)

EDIT: I think I need my break from the forums, as I have already gone full idiot at least four times today.


eagle's splendor wont change how many times you can do it.


You're right. I clearly need a break from the forums, since I'm forgetting even basic Pathfinder rules :p.

Sorry about that.


Frankly the changes to the two abilities (Consume Magic and Consume Magic Items) were utterly terrible and I believe in most cases, people will only cherry pick from the Errata. I know I will.

They should not have done things this way if they wanted to make CHA more appealing to take as an Arcanist. There are several CHA based exploits that could have been improved to solve that issue, and if they didn't want CHA to be a dumpstat, Making it 3+CHA (no minimum) mod for Consume Magic(Items) would have been almost the same change. It would also make CHA damaging spells, poisons, have more of an impact on the player.

For example, with 3+CHA mod. A dumpstat of 7 CHA would give you 1 use
8-9 = 2 uses
11 = 3 uses, and so on. - and a +CHA item regardless of whether or not you dumped it on or not, would improve -all- aspects of CHA related things - as it should - instead of locking the core ability to a specific stat range.

At lower end of Arcanist, Consume Magic is already a pricey thing to do, and you get so few points. Consume Magic Items is also pricey as it's hitting your wealth hard, even if you make your own scrolls. (At the lower end.)

At higher levels, Even if you dumped 14 CHA base, and have a +6 Item. (A costly investment) 5 times a day - May still not be enough depending on your Archetype. (Brown Fur, Occultist. Poor Occultists, brutalized by this)


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Yeah, I'm really disappointed the Consumes got a limit at all, since the cost of it is already high. But if there were a limit it should have been 3+Cha, so 7 charisma would be different than 13. I mean, isn't that the reason that a Cleric's Channel has a limit of 3+Cha.


Quiznab wrote:
Except for occultists most of the archetypes don't look that strong but there might be some niche builds that are worth examining such as blade adept into eldritch knight, and a 1 level sorcer or wizard dip plus blood arcanist / spell savant for blasters.

I had the same idea with blade adept, but I feel it cut into powerful exploits (Arcane Barrier, Dimensional Slide, Energy Shield.) Play style preference? Yes! In my defense, you hit EK at CL 8 giving you 6 levels in arcanist and one level in fighter. With blade adept you miss out on 2 of the 3 Exploits you pickup and you don't get your first exploit until level 5.

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