So I'm nearing the end of the alchemist guide just editing, art, and putting it together.
After that I'll do what will undoubtedly be an interesting guide on the Shaman, a class I think is going to be very very powerful once it's figured completely out.
After that though I don't know. I want to do one more guide after updating the others. I like the idea of doing skald which is another class I think needs figuring out. I like brawler too but I think people are slowly chewing that one into an interesting shape. Hunter is one I've felt severely underrated and we know how I like to crush things with the weight of the twelve ton "underdog".
So I put together a poll here.
I'll keep this up until October 11th.
In the meantime we can discuss the options and how each class interacts with itself.
Well at this rate, looks like I'm gonna get what I want from YA!
BRAWLER
Hunter
hmmm, I want Skald and Hunter! Wheres the Shaman Guide? I can't wait to get into that baby!
hmmm, I want Skald and Hunter! Wheres the Shaman Guide? I can't wait to get into that baby!
Shaman guide will take a while.
The trouble isn't what does it do.
I'm having a hard time finding out what it can't.
Even forgoing the wandering spirit lore cheese the spell list + hexes are such that it's rather good.
Yeah, they were one of the first classes I rolled out for PFS along with the Investigator and Inquisitor (Sacred Huntsman). The shaman is only level 2 but he looks like he'll be a lot of fun. I was planning on making a witch for the while but switched it over to the shaman after my 2nd read through of the class.
BTW, any take on his evil eye? Unlike the witch it appears not to be mind effecting, which seems to make it vastly more powerful IMO.
Thanks for the guides , cant wait to see the shaman one.
I will vote for hunter.
While what i really wish we get a FAQ about is the skirmisher tricks.
I broke the tie (yay).
After I read the shaman in detail (kinda skimmed it during the playtest), I really liked it and look forward to making one. I'd be shocked if they didn't errata the Evil Eye hex to be mind-affecting, though. That has to be an oversight (though it'd be awesome if it wasn't).
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Brawler! It has so many flippin options, and the effectiveness is really tied to how many lines of feats you know. I think a guide is much more vital to putting together a brawler than it is a hunter.
Really excited for the shaman guide, though - I've made a Bones shaman for an upcoming Skulls and Shackles game, and by the time I get Wandering Spirit it would be very helpful to have a guide to all the options. Thanks a lot!
Voted - Hunter
I can also relate to how versatile the shaman is and how much it can change up per day. I was sad with how it's spell list turned out but that's life.
Besides the errors here and there I feel the Shaman and Hunter are classes with a lot of base options which I like a lot.
Voted: Skald. At least people talk about the hunter: there are barely threads here in the advice forum that mention the Skald. D:
And can't wait for the shaman guide :D
I'm trying to build a Samsaran shaman: I already had some problems pinning the exact path I wanted to go with it, but then I realized that with the Mystic Past life and Lore spirit I can HAZ ALL THE SPELLZ with ultimate mental stats MADness. :P
So far I think the race is neck and neck between skald and hunter.
I do agree it just seems the poor skald suffers from a problem where he has very little place in many groups. If I did a guide that would be the challenge I think, finding ways to point out how the skald is unique and a wonderful complement to a group even with a bard or a barbarian.
I vote for whichever ones you actually play instead of theorycraft.
So all of them?
I've played PF since it came out and 3.5 way before that, and I can say that I have never played ANYTHING to 20th level, ever, and I'm pretty sure I'm not in the minority.
I don't think that should be a requirement for a guide builder.
QUOTE="LazarX"]
I really doubt that he's played every single one to 20th level in the time since release.I vote for whichever ones you actually play instead of theorycraft.So all of them?
As of now? No.
The investigator guide was partially written after the playtest. Once the release hit I redid the previous work and moved from there. IT's still not entirely done.
I currently have two shamans. One low level one really stupid high gestalt level. Tons of in-between npc's I throw into games I run. Then several shaman that I'm observing in other games of varying levels and tables.
The information I would get playing one class from 1 to 20 maybe once or twice would be limited purely for the fact that I'm probably stuck at one table under one set of rules. Personal experience is useful and definitely a preference but simple observation and study of the outside world can take you farther still. Then of course I have the slight advantage of understanding how inter-class synergies work so I can find the bits and gears the developer meant to go together and can see how they play or fail to turn at the table.
And in the end once things are written and put out I sometimes get feedback from those who found success in taking the observations to practice and tweaking them to taste.
The poll ultimately serves two purposes. One it gives me a bit of direction because I want to eat the entire buffet. Two it let's me know what would actually be deemed useful to the community as a whole by tackling a class people have honest to god trouble with.
And this won't be out for a good long while in any case. So I have time to start gathering information now.
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Skald and hunter still very much tied going into tonight.
I'd say Skald. Serious considerations for the Hunter would be a waste at this point because no one really knows how one of the class's strongest abilities, Skirmisher Tricks on your companion, actually works. We can probably expect some clarification eventually, but how it is ruled could be a massive game changer for the class and perhaps invalidate your guide.
I'd say Skald. Serious considerations for the Hunter would be a waste at this point because no one really knows how one of the class's strongest abilities, Skirmisher Tricks on your companion, actually works. We can probably expect some clarification eventually, but how it is ruled could be a massive game changer for the class and perhaps invalidate your guide.
I feel the strongest hunter ability is the feat sharing, skirmisher tricks are a small part. They are neat but losing them doesn't hurt the class much IMO.
Though after reading the responses maybe skald does need a guide to see what it can do. I really can't seem to place it myself.
Feat sharing is very strong, but as written right now a Hunter's animal companion can seemingly get a ton of Skirmisher Tricks and use them with no built in limit. You have things like applying free action debuffs with no saves, rerolling missed attacks, and immediate action counter attacks in there. How that officially gets resolved will be huge for the Hunter.
In regards to the Skald, the best use to me at least seemed to be using every last feat at 3rd level and up on Extra Rage power (though it is ambiguous as to whether or not the "rage powers from another source can't be given to allies" clause means from other classes or from the feat as well) and hook everyone up with the standard barbarian build. Beast Totem line, Superstition, Witch Hunter, Strength Surge, Spell Sunder, CaGM.
I'd say Skald. Serious considerations for the Hunter would be a waste at this point because no one really knows how one of the class's strongest abilities, Skirmisher Tricks on your companion, actually works. We can probably expect some clarification eventually, but how it is ruled could be a massive game changer for the class and perhaps invalidate your guide.
Chances are, this will be clarified long before I get to putting words to paper.
Overall I'd say hunter went from being the weakest and least interesting of the playtest classes to one of the most subtly strongest.
Skald is in the same boat. I believe it can take normally ignored rage powers and turn them into soemthing rather good. I think the standards are very well suited to a normal barbarian but would spell sunder really be good on a magus not built for it? Or superstition ona whole group?
The beauty of Skald's rage is that it can be turned on and off each round per person with no down side. With a bit of planning that essentially negates the downsides of Superstition, not being able to accept friendly spells, and just gives a very nice defensive buff. Spell Sunder in combination with Strength Surge pretty much means any melee person has a decent shot of pulling it off. Thinking about it, it seems like Spell Sunder would be great for a Magus; all your damage tends to come from Shocking Grasp crit fishing so all your other attacks can at times just seem kinda bleh. Why not change one of them into a dispel attempt for action economy purposes?
All of that of course assumes you have a party focused around melee, but if you don't, then a Skald isn't really living up to its full potential anyway. It's a niche class, but one I hope to get to play someday. All I need is the right party :D
Perhaps I have a case of tunnel vision though because this was my immediate impression as soon as I saw the Skald playtest and the idea has stayed with me ever since. Which powers stood out to you for Skald? I'm excited to expand my Skald horizons.
Brawler, for sure. Slayer would be good, too.
The beauty of Skald's rage is that it can be turned on and off each round per person with no down side. With a bit of planning that essentially negates the downsides of Superstition, not being able to accept friendly spells, and just gives a very nice defensive buff. Spell Sunder in combination with Strength Surge pretty much means any melee person has a decent shot of pulling it off. Thinking about it, it seems like Spell Sunder would be great for a Magus; all your damage tends to come from Shocking Grasp crit fishing so all your other attacks can at times just seem kinda bleh. Why not change one of them into a dispel attempt for action economy purposes?
All of that of course assumes you have a party focused around melee, but if you don't, then a Skald isn't really living up to its full potential anyway. It's a niche class, but one I hope to get to play someday. All I need is the right party :D
Perhaps I have a case of tunnel vision though because this was my immediate impression as soon as I saw the Skald playtest and the idea has stayed with me ever since. Which powers stood out to you for Skald? I'm excited to expand my Skald horizons.
I feel this is the crux of making or braking the skald, it lends to rage cycling but that in and of itself goes against how bards work. So how do you end up valuing lingering song, if it works, is it more or less valuable to the skald? I feel skald is going to be a more nuanced bard which is something, maybe good or maybe bad. Now one thing I feel the skald will be great at is being an NPC BBEG with lackeys, it seems kind of unfortunate that the skald makes a better NPC than PC.
Skald. Definitely skald.
Hunter, Brawler or Slayer (in that order)
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Totally voted Brawler on this one. After every class in the ACG, this one's the most important. It works as a successor to the Monk and it's strange (sometimes contradictory) set of abilities, without the alignment restrictions or the need for archetypes to really get the best out of it.
Hunter's pretty neat, I'd like to see a guide to that at some point down the road.
Skald, for as interesting as it can be (especially since every PFS group I run into tends to be melee-heavy) I can't help but shake the feeling that it's more of a Bard archetype than a class all its own.
In retrospect, I might have wanted to see a "Specific Build" guide. Those are always more interesting than the usual sets of optimization, and they can lead to something really fun. Shame I can't change my vote.
Totally voted Brawler on this one. After every class in the ACG, this one's the most important. It works as a successor to the Monk and it's strange (sometimes contradictory) set of abilities, without the alignment restrictions or the need for archetypes to really get the best out of it.
Actually, Warpriest is the successor to the Monk (believe it or not).
So far with 9 days to close the poll the Hunter is ahead. IF this trend keeps for a bit I'll probably decide before the deadline.
So far with 9 days to close the poll the Hunter is ahead. IF this trend keeps for a bit I'll probably decide before the deadline.
Excellent, Hunter is a good choice.
I put in my vote for Skald. I may want to make my own guide to it, but I know I will often get stuck in the mechanics for a while. I find it odd though that the Herald of the Horn went from the thing that helped sell the Skald to us to something that seems to be the worst of the archetypes. There's stuff that logistically makes sense for the archetype to have that's flat out missing, and what it gets isn't all worth what you give up.
5 days left and it's looking like a hunter guide. If I don't see a significant shift soon ima close it early.
Skald definietly. So little info about it on the forums.
2 more days, im cheering for hunter heh :P.
Pirate! Arrr
Only a couple of hours to go and much to my surprise Skald who was like 10 votes down is now 5 votes up.
Fear the power of Beards, Vikings, and the Immigrant Song. For they shall lead a Skald to victory!
10 minutes to go and it looks like hunter will get it with one vote.
EDIT: And that's what happens. Gnight everyone.