Does Rage activate Mindlessly Cruel?

[Stabbald]

Rage gives a bonus to Strength, but not specifically attack rolls. Does this still qualify to activate Mindlessly Cruel? And if not, what is the best way for a barbarian to activate this trait besides carrying around a bard?

[boring7]

For those who DON'T want to backchannel search, the trait is from Orcs of Golarion and has this to say: "Mindlessly Cruel: You take delight in delivering vicious blows with cruel weapons. Whenever you have a morale bonus on weapon attack rolls, you also receive a +1 trait bonus on weapon damage rolls."

As-written, you need a bard, a bless/prayer/etc. spell, a Cavalier, or...that's all I can think of offhand. There are actually quite a few morale-bonus-to-attack spells, but they all carry the same issue of needing someone else to do it for you because you're a barbarian.

The name clearly means it SHOULD have been for raging, but the editor made a simple mistake.

[DominusMegadeus]

Seconded. It doesn't work with Rage by RAW, but it probably should, and was likely the intention.

[Claxon]

I not sure it is intended to work just because of rage. While orcs can be barbarians, not all, or even a majority are.

That trait would effectively give barbarians a +1 to attack and damage all the time, which definitely doesn't seem intentional to me. I wouldn't allow it, and by the rules it doesn't work.

If it was intended to work based on rage, don't you think they would have just mentioned that if you were raging or under the effect of the rage spell that you got an additional bonus to attack and damage?

[Umbranus]

It is not activated by rage. rage does not give a direct moral bonus to hit.
By your logic a raging barbarian would not benefit from the flagbearer feat, the bless spell or similar that grant a moral bonus to attack because moral bonuses do not stack.

[boring7]

Claxon wrote:

I not sure it is intended to work just because of rage. While orcs can be barbarians, not all, or even a majority are.

That trait would effectively give barbarians a +1 to attack and damage all the time, which definitely doesn't seem intentional to me. I wouldn't allow it, and by the rules it doesn't work.

If it was intended to work based on rage, don't you think they would have just mentioned that if you were raging or under the effect of the rage spell that you got an additional bonus to attack and damage?

A fair point, but then the name doesn't make a lot of sense.

Maybe the idea is that when you already know you're going to win (e.g. have the morale bonus to attack, "We'za orkz! we'za gonna win!" from some source) you feel safe in making your attacks more cruel and damaging. Therefore you deal an extra point of damage? I mean there are still problems with the concept, but it's something.

[Kigvan]

Also keep in mind inspire courage from a bard does not grant a morale bonus to attack rolls. It grants a competence bonus to attack and damage rolls and a morale bonus to saves vs charm and fear. You could get a flag or an ally to carry a flag and the flagbearer feat from the Inner Sea World Guide to gain an always active morale bonus to hit (and damage)

[lemeres]

Unfortunately, as worded, it doesn't work.

There is a difference between morale bonuses to strength, and moral bonuses to damage (even if they end up with the same result). This might seem lame....but this design decision in the system is meant for your benefit.

This means you can both rage (morale to strength), and then have a bard give you a nice little buff (morale to attack/damage).

[Jeff Merola]

lemeres wrote:

Unfortunately, as worded, it doesn't work.

There is a difference between morale bonuses to strength, and moral bonuses to damage (even if they end up with the same result). This might seem lame....but this design decision in the system is meant for your benefit.

This means you can both rage (morale to strength), and then have a bard give you a nice little buff (morale to attack/damage).

Inspire Courage is actually a Competence bonus to attack and damage, not morale.

[Carson6412]

Claxon wrote:

That trait would effectively give barbarians a +1 to attack and damage all the time, which definitely doesn't seem intentional to me. I wouldn't allow it, and by the rules it doesn't work.

Unless I am reading it wrong, wouldn't the trait only give barbarians a +1 to damage? And considering traits are supposed to be half a feat, a situational +1 to damage does not seem that over-powered.

[Rynjin]

If it were situational, you'd have a point.

Still, it very clearly does not work by RAW.

[lemeres]

Jeff Merola wrote:

lemeres wrote:

Unfortunately, as worded, it doesn't work.

There is a difference between morale bonuses to strength, and moral bonuses to damage (even if they end up with the same result). This might seem lame....but this design decision in the system is meant for your benefit.

This means you can both rage (morale to strength), and then have a bard give you a nice little buff (morale to attack/damage).

Inspire Courage is actually a Competence bonus to attack and damage, not morale.

Ah, always forget that one (particularly since it includes a morale bonus on saves against charm and fear, which muddles the matter). Still, a bard that doesn't toss the heroism spell out every so often can't really be said to be doing their job.

It is the very definition of a great buff, since it has a long enough duration that it can be cast early on, allowing the bard to focus on...what ever you make them do. The fact that they are the only ones with it as a 2nd level spell further encourages them since they can more easily afford to use it.

The point still remains- this method is meant to benefit the players by giving them more stack able options.

[AndIMustMask]

desperate battler feat + courageous weapon + mindlessly cruel trait works wonders and pairs deliciously with rage and/or the cracked something something green ioun stone (+1 attack/saves/skills/stat checks, morale (which is increased by courageous)).