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So, the ACG came and brought us the long waited Dex-to-Damage and Cha-to-Will options... Unfortunately, they are quite underwhelming, to say the least.
Dex to damage requires 3 feats, doesn't work with light weapons (or rapiers) and for some reason is restricted to a single weapon (which means that TWF with a rapier and daggers requires anything between 6 to 9 feats).
Prerequisite: BAB +1; Dex 13; Weapon Finesse
Benefit:You can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to all attack and damage rolls made with weapons affected by Weapon Finesse. This damage is not increased by any condition or effect that would allow you to add 1.5 times your Strength bonus to damage (such as wielding your weapon 2-handed) but it is still reduced for off-hand attacks. You cannot use this ability while donning a shield of any kind.
Special: Characters with the Panache class feature can use this ability while donning a buckler.
There! It requires 2 feats and doesn't let characters use shields, stopping their AC from going too high. This, added to the feat cost and lower damage, gives a significant advantage to Str-based builds.
"Lemmy, you insane bird brain! That applies to ALL weapons! Isn't that overpowered!"
I really don't see how. Letting the feat apply to all (finesse) weapons simply prevents situations like this:
Guy-Playing-a-Swashbuckler: So, what do I find in the assassin's body?
GM: You find 2000gp, a mithral chain shirt and a +3 adamantine dagger.
Guy-Playing-a-Swashbuckler: Cool! I can sell that dagger to upgrade my +1 punching dagger!
GM: Why... Why don't you just take his dagger?
Guy-Playing-a-Swashbuckler: Because my feats only apply to punching daggers. Not normal daggers.
Limiting it to a single type of weapons is a pointless restriction. The feat applying to multiple weapons doesn't increase the character's power, just his build versatility.
...And my brain is at least 20% bigger than that of a bird, thank you very much.
"But Dex-to-Damage is TOO POWERFUL! No matter what!"
Look... It costs 2 feats (the scarcest resource in the game) and you still won't deal as much damage as the guy with a greatsword who invested zero feats.
BUT if you still think it's too good, just add the following line to the feat's benefit: "...If you have a negative Str modifier, that penalty still applies to your melee damage rolls."
Or, use one of the following alternate feats:
Insightful Strike:You use your combat insight and precision instead of raw power to damage your opponents.
Prerequisite: BAB +1 or Rogue level 1; Weapon Finesse; Dex 15
Benefit:You can add your Intelligence modifier instead of your Strength modifier to all attack and damage rolls made with weapons affected by Weapon Finesse. This damage is not increased by any condition or effect that would allow you to add 1.5 times your Strength bonus to damage (such as wielding your weapon 2-handed), nor is it reduced for off-hand attacks.
Or this one:
Through insight and discipline, you learned to harm your opponents by attacking them with precise strikes and superior martial techniques rather than brute strength.
Prerequisites: BAB +1 or Monk level 1; Improved Unarmed Strike or ability to cast divine spells; Weapon Finesse; Wis 15.
Benefit: When attacking with unarmed strikes, natural attacks or monk weapons, you can apply your Wisdom modifier to damage rolls instead of your Strength modifier. This bonus is not increased by any condition or ability that would allow you to add 1.5x your Strength modifier to damage rolls (such as wielding a weapon 2-handed or using the Dragon Style feat), nor is it reduced for off-hand attacks.
Special: If you're capable of casting divine spells, you can also use this ability when attacking with your deity's favored weapon.
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"Whatever... What's your problem with Cha-to-Will? There are like, 3 or 4 different ways to do it in the ACG!"
Exactly! 3 or 4 different ways. All of them needlessly complicated and/or situational (or way too powerful, in the case of Divine Protection). They use different types of bonus and/or apply to only against specific effects for some reason.
My suggestion? Remove all of those feats and class features!
No more Divine Protection! No more Steadfast Personality! No more Charmed Life! Here is an universal feat that is simple, effective and balanced!
Prerequisite: Cha 13
Benefit: You add your Charisma modifier instead of your Wisdom modifier to Will save.
"But... This will make Wisdom a dump stat!"
Yeah, but unlike pretty much every other character in the game, you can't dump Cha. And you're one feat behind. And now you don't have 3~4 different ways to stack Cha on your will save. And your GM doesn't have to remember if it's a mind-affecting effect or not, you simply add the bonus anyway.
"Hah! You are forgetting about Paladins! They'll still be able to add double their Cha modifier to will saves!"
I didn't forget about them. It's just not a big deal... Paladins have great will save and gain immunity to many effects that require will saves (fear, charm and compulsion). What they don't have are feats. Paladins (And Anti-Paladins) are very feat-starved, so it doesn't really bother me if they want to spend one of their very precious feats just to get a bonus they don't even need.
But if that really bothers you... Just add the following line to the feat:
Special: You can already add your Charisma modifier to Will saves, you instead replace your Wis bonus with half your Cha modifier (rounded down)
"And what about Swashbucklers? Their saves suck! Without Charmed Life, they are doomed!"
You're right. Fortunately, this problem has a very easy solution: Give them this feat as a bonus feat at 6th level... And maybe a +1 luck bonus to Will saves every time they would get an additional use of Charmed Life.
Now Swashbucklers have acceptable saves and can actually use their class features without fear of dying because they spent their immediate action and are therefore incapable of using Charmed Life.
- - - - - -
So, this is my take on Dex-to-Damage and Cha-to-Will feats/class features.
IMHO, they are simpler and better balanced than the options introduced in the ACG, which, unfortunately, pretty much guarantee we'll never see anything like them in the future.
So I'll just leave an additional suggestion for devs and homebrewers:
In the future, try to keep things simple. There is no point in creating 4 different options that do the same thing in slightly different ways and/or making options needlessly complicated and/or restrictive. You cannot and should not balance an option by making it more annoying to use.
Anyway, hope you guys and gals like these ideas, and thanks for reading.
Cheers!
+1 to this post. I always prefer simplicity, ESPECIALLY when it comes to feats, and these are much, MUCH better than existing complications. Will definitely be thieving them for my own use.
I agree with the +Dex to damage feat you did. I'm fact in my games it's only one feat to get +Dex to damage with any finessable weapon. (Somehow the Dex focused master race still hasn't overtaken my games. :P)
As for the other, I'm not concerned about it, but your approach would be easier. I am thinking of making Charmed Life work like Divine Grace though. Having a swift action Dave boost sounds goofy to me.
I'm not crazy about using different stats for saves, attacks, and such. It disassociates the ability scores, making them feel arbitrary, which was something that bothered me about 4th Edition.
Dexterity to damage is okay. Honestly, I think Deadly Agility from Path of War by Dreamscarred Press handled Dex-to-Damage much better. It not only gets the job done, but also has an extra line that helps TWP fighters.
Intelligence to attack and damage? Not cool. I can understand Dexterity because it involves precision and grace, which is covered by that ability score. Even if you have an "insightful" look on your target, you're still using Dexterity to wield your sword. Intelligence only makes sense to me if you're literally wielding your sword with your mind -- which would actually be rather cool.
Charisma to Will? Ew. If the problem is that Swashbucklers and similar classes have bad Will saves, then fix their Will saves rather than introduce a feat that might cause balance issues. That's just better design sense. You said it yourself that a solution should be simple and direct. Besides, I honestly feel like Charisma is an undervalued statistic.
I know PF is a combat game, but we don't have to make EVERY ability score a combat stat for everyone.
Exactly how crippling is a bad will save? I know that there is a huge disparity between good and bad saves but it seems like the assumption is that good saves should be challenged as opposed to auto succeed, which make bad saves auto fail, however I don't know if the game is making that assumption or optimizers. From the rhetoric I feel like everyone feels like every class should have good will saves even in a round about way.
Intelligence to attack and damage? Not cool. I can understand Dexterity because it involves precision and grace, which is covered by that ability score. Even if you have an "insightful" look on your target, you're still using Dexterity to wield your sword. Intelligence only makes sense to me if you're literally wielding your sword with your mind -- which would actually be rather cool.
There is precedent for this, though. The Int to damage reflects the fact that the character deals damage by striking her opponent at its weak points, rather than by hitting it hard.
EDIT: There is a mistake in the OP. In Insightful Strike, the character's Int modifier should only apply to damage rolls, not to attack rolls, so you still need Dex to hit your target.
Charisma to Will? Ew. If the problem is that Swashbucklers and similar classes have bad Will saves, then fix their Will saves rather than introduce a feat that might cause balance issues. That's just better design sense. You said it yourself that a solution should be simple and direct. Besides, I honestly feel like Charisma is an undervalued statistic.
I know PF is a combat game, but we don't have to make EVERY ability score a combat stat for everyone.
Allowing Cha to Will save is very flavorful, and doesn't add a combat attribute, it simply lets you choose which one you want. It also helps characters who can't afford to raise Wisdom and makes Cha builds more viable, which really helps Cavaliers. Ninjas, Rogues and Swashbucklers.
Exactly how crippling is a bad will save? I know that there is a huge disparity between good and bad saves but it seems like the assumption is that good saves should be challenged as opposed to auto succeed, which make bad saves auto fail, however I don't know if the game is making that assumption or optimizers. From the rhetoric I feel like everyone feels like every class should have good will saves even in a round about way.
Unfortunately, save DCs rise really fast (mostly because casters are very SAD), so unless you're a Wisdom-based class with good will save progression, chances are you'll at best have about a 50% chance of making that save. And not everyone can afford to spend a feat on Iron Will (And it doesn't help much).
e.g.: By 9th level, a Wizard with Wisdom 14 and a Cloak of Resistance +4 will only have a 55% chance of resisting their own highest level spell. And that's assuming he started with Int 18 and didn't grab stuff like Spell Focus.
This wouldn't be such a problem, were if not for the fact that after 7th level or so, failing a Fort or Will save will very likely remove you from the fight.
Allowing characters to use Cha to will save increases the number of viable builds and allow players to try different concepts without suffering for it. Now you can have a Rogue or Fighter with high Cha and not worry about failing every single will save thrown at you. It doesn't make Cha-based characters invincible, but at least gives them a fighting chance.
Lemmy is spot on. Very good post. I agree completely with your suggestions.
Lemmy is spot on. Very good post. I agree completely with your suggestions.
Thanks. I'm glad you like it. Love your user name, BTW.
I think it's fine to have feats be less weapon specific, though I'd prefer a mechanic for transfering enchantments between like magic items, so you don't have to sacrifice concept to the loot you get. Maybe I think punching daggers are really cool.
Exactly how crippling is a bad will save? I know that there is a huge disparity between good and bad saves but it seems like the assumption is that good saves should be challenged as opposed to auto succeed, which make bad saves auto fail, however I don't know if the game is making that assumption or optimizers. From the rhetoric I feel like everyone feels like every class should have good will saves even in a round about way.
Will is the most crucial save in the game.
Fort: Damage, shuts down physical capabilities
Reflex: Damage
Will: Lose control of your character.
Like I said. If the problem is a low Will save on certain classes, than give them better saves. You don't need to turn EVERY stat into a combat stat. That's what the physical statistics are for. At the very least, make Insightful Strike a precision bonus or an attack action for some niche synergy with Vital Strike.
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my only problem is the name: Steadfast Personality? really? i mean it's just awful!
how about Force of Will or Charmed Presence or Egotistical or something else.
i definitely would instate the ST-penalty to DX-to-damage. you need to be strong to be fast, and, it's not like the ST req is 13 - it's 10! 10 ST and you can add your DX to all your damage rolls without penalty. not 8, not 7, not 5. 10. fair 'nuff.
i really like your Insightful Strike and Celestial Fist - i ordinarily hesitate to key a mental stat to attack and damage, however, as part of a INT>DX>ST or WIS>DX>ST build i think it's totally fair for the cost - but natural attacks are you sure?
nice synthesis.
Thanks, Lemmy. Nicely laid out and explained, for when my players need a reminder _why_ I incorporated these rules.
Exactly how crippling is a bad will save? I know that there is a huge disparity between good and bad saves but it seems like the assumption is that good saves should be challenged as opposed to auto succeed, which make bad saves auto fail, however I don't know if the game is making that assumption or.Unfortunately, save DCs rise really fast (mostly because casters are very SAD), so unless you're a Wisdom-based class with good will save progression, chances are you'll at best have about a 50% chance of making that save. And not everyone can afford to spend a feat on Iron Will (And it doesn't help much).
e.g.: By 9th level, a Wizard with Wisdom 14 and a Cloak of Resistance +4 will only have a 55% chance of resisting their own highest level spell. And that's assuming he started with Int 18 and didn't grab stuff like Spell Focus.
This wouldn't be such a problem, were if not for the fact that after 7th level or so, failing a Fort or Will save will very likely remove you from the fight.
Allowing characters to use Cha to will save increases the number of viable builds and allow players to try different concepts without suffering for it. Now you can have a Rogue or Fighter with high Cha and not worry about failing every single will save thrown at you. It doesn't make Cha-based characters invincible, but at least gives them a fighting chance.
If we're going so far as to make house rule feats, wouldn't it be better for the game if base bad saves were re-ruled to be 1/2 per level instead of 3/10. At that point, good saves still get ahead but the disparity isn't so high and feats like Iron will matter. Also it mirrors base spell DCs which are about 10+(1-9) before modifiers.
Before it comes up I will make the most obvious counterargument for my above statement; Having a feat try handle this is easier than modifying the saves of any monster/npc that is already printed, although at the cost of a feat tax.
Dex to damage feat
Increase the BAB to +3 to put in on track with the gunslinger dex damage ability. Also, remove the panache/buckler thing. I don't like feats pointed at a specific class, and bucklers themselves are hokey.
Why would the dex based Pc have to wait to level 3 (at least) to start playing the game?
That's really hyperbolic.
Please explain to me how allowing something which isn't normally allowed anyway prevents the "dex based Pc" from playing until level 3.
In my opinion, Dexterity to damage should be around levels 3rd to 4th. At around 7th to 8th levels, I could also see damage increase to 1.5 Dexterity to damage when wielding a finesse weapon in one hand with nothing in the offhand - this second line of thought, however, is based off of other iterations of d20 I've ran and played with similar mechanics.
Lots of feat allow things that are not normally allowed. Like substracting bonus to attack in order to add bonus to damage. As you put it It sounds as is dex to damage is a favor.
If I'm understanding you correctly, then I do not disagree with anything you've stated here.
In any reasonable group or sellsword a fighter, paladin or barbarian that only do 1d6 of damage for leves 1 and 2 would be fired. And not to mention non full BAB classes.
Of the three examples you've provided, I have never seen a paladin or barbarian go with a Dexterity-based character in over 25 years of gaming. While anecdotal evidence is not evidence in and of itself, neither paladin nor barbarian lend themselves to Dexterity-based builds as a general rule, barring some weird archetype I've missed or archery/gun-based builds.
I have, however, see a few Dexterity-based fighter builds that eventually come into their own (usually scimitar or rapier-focused). In respect to those, I've never seen a player kicked from a group or "fired" because his damage is low at low levels. Many things can be 1 shot on a single critical from weapon damage at this range or even a maximum damage roll, particularly player characters.
my only problem is the name: Steadfast Personality? really? i mean it's just awful!
how about Force of Will or Charmed Presence or Egotistical or something else.
I agree. In my games I call it "Force of Personality". I just used the original name here for simplicity's sake.
i definitely would instate the ST-penalty to DX-to-damage. you need to be strong to be fast, and, it's not like the ST req is 13 - it's 10! 10 ST and you can add your DX to all your damage rolls without penalty. not 8, not 7, not 5. 10. fair 'nuff.
I don't think it's necessary, but I'm not against it either. So... Fair enough.
i really like your Insightful Strike and Celestial Fist - i ordinarily hesitate to key a mental stat to attack and damage, however, as part of a INT>DX>ST or WIS>DX>ST build i think it's totally fair for the cost - but natural attacks are you sure?
Well... The feat was originally intended for Monks and other unarmed combatants. I added the bit about deities' favored weapons later, to expand the possibilities for character concepts. It really doesn't make much sense that a Monk would be good at punching but not at using claws that are on the same hand he used to punch. The way I see it, unarmed strikes are nothing more than natural attacks with some martial technique behind them.
Personally, I do like these feats more than a simple Dex-to-damage, but I'm okay with either.
nice synthesis.
Thank you.
Dex to damage feat
Increase the BAB to +3 to put in on track with the gunslinger dex damage ability. Also, remove the panache/buckler thing. I don't like feats pointed at a specific class, and bucklers themselves are hokey.
I don't see the point in delaying it to level 3~5. Gunslingers can wait longer because they get it for free and can target touch AC (they also get some additional damage from Point-Blank Shot and Deadly Aim). Melee characters, OTOH, have to invest 2 feats, so that's costly enough.
While I'm not a big fan myself of allowing the feat to be used with bucklers, it feels counter-productive to forbid Swashbucklers from using bucklers.
If we're going so far as to make house rule feats, wouldn't it be better for the game if base bad saves were re-ruled to be 1/2 per level instead of 3/10. At that point, good saves still get ahead but the disparity isn't so high and feats like Iron will matter. Also it mirrors base spell DCs which are about 10+(1-9) before modifiers.
Before it comes up I will make the most obvious counterargument for my above statement; Having a feat try handle this is easier than modifying the saves of any monster/npc that is already printed, although at the cost of a feat tax.
In my games, I rule that characters get a +1 to their weak saves at 1st level, and an additional +1 at 9th and 18th level. That means those saves go from +1 to +9 instead of from +0 to +6.
Of the three examples you've provided, I have never seen a paladin or barbarian go with a Dexterity-based character in over 25 years of gaming.
Which doesn't mean it should be possible. Also, you probably didn't see them because finesse feats are pretty weak.
While anecdotal evidence is not evidence in and of itself, neither paladin nor barbarian lend themselves to Dexterity-based builds as a general rule, barring some weird archetype I've missed or archery/gun-based builds.
Dervish Dance Paladin of Sarenrae... And dueling Barbarians.
Of the three examples you've provided, I have never seen a paladin or barbarian go with a Dexterity-based character in over 25 years of gaming. While anecdotal evidence is not evidence in and of itself, neither paladin nor barbarian lend themselves to Dexterity-based builds as a general rule...
The fact that it sucks to go to be dex based without a dex to damage feat pretty much explain it. And if they need to be level 5 to actually start doing damage then the situation will not change.
This might sound crazy, but you could put a few points into Strength so your melee attacks do some damage. Ya know, the whole purpose of Strength in the first place. In fact, it's usually best to have at least 13 Strength for Power Attack anyway. You won't do as much damage as the Strength fighter, but you really shouldn't. Dexterity gives you better skill bonuses, defenses, and initiative, all of which the Strength fighter had to sacrifice to get better damage.
Do I think Dexterity builds are underpowered as presented in the core rules? Yes. That's why, in my campaign, all characters automatically receive Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat if they meet the prerequisites. But you're not crazy gimped by playing a Dex character unless you're building your character wrong.
Which doesn't mean it should be possible. Also, you probably didn't see them because finesse feats are pretty weak.
No argument. As a player, you play the cards your dealt in this respect and these classes make it very easy to play a Strength focused character - they seem designed in many respects to encourage it.
As far as Weapon Finesse goes, the first 3.x game I played in, the GM had HR'd it to a weapon trait and I've been doing the same since. Same thing with agile maneuvers and several other feats.
Dervish Dance Paladin of Sarenrae... And dueling Barbarians.
Thank you for that. Those are hilarious - in a good way.
Which doesn't mean it should be possible. Also, you probably didn't see them because finesse feats are pretty weak.No argument. As a player, you play the cards your dealt in this respect and these classes make it very easy to play a Strength focused character - they seem designed in many respects to encourage it.
As far as Weapon Finesse goes, the first 3.x game I played in, the GM had HR'd it to a weapon trait and I've been doing the same since. Same thing with agile maneuvers and several other feats.
I do think getting Dex-to-Damage should require some investment. 2 feats seems like the ideal amount for me. One of the problems with Slashing Grace is that it requires 3 feats (one of which is Weapon Focus, a feat that is extremely dull and not nearly as good as people make it to be) and only applies to an specific weapon, which, as I mentioned in the OP, is a completely pointless restriction (the fact that it doesn't apply to any of the most iconic finesse weapons just adds insult to the injury).
Dervish Dance Paladin of Sarenrae... And dueling Barbarians.Thank you for that. Those are hilarious - in a good way.
I never built a DD Paladin, but I really do like Foxy Slicey. Her build is simple, but effective and fun!
I houseruled all characters receive Weapon Finesse if they meet the prerequisites and made Deadly Agility from Path of War available. There's a +1 BAB requirement, but rogues and monks should have a full BAB anyway -- in fact, Paizo said Pathfinder Unchained will introduce revisions to that effect.
So, if we're house-ruling stuff, why not just use finesse as a weapon property? No feat, I've been doing it before 5E and it's worked great.
In fact it makes a great property if you decide to have a special polearm or quarterstaff that can be considered finessed. (I don't put it on quite all light weapons, ie. pick axes, but that's just a nitpick of mine).
So, if we're house-ruling stuff, why not just use finesse as a weapon property? No feat, I've been doing it before 5E and it's worked great.
In fact it makes a great property if you decide to have a special polearm or quarterstaff that can be considered finessed. (I don't put it on quite all light weapons, ie. pick axes, but that's just a nitpick of mine).
While I don't think just giving free Weapon Finesse is necessarily a bad idea, I do think that getting Dex to attack and damage should require some investment. It just shouldn't be as heavy an investment or be as restrictive as Slashing Grace is. (And I do think Fencing Grace is a slap in the face of the players. Adding an even more restrictive feat on a soft cover book instead of issuing errata for Slashing Grace seems very player-unfriendly and kinda dishonest).
Additionally, I think limiting which light weapons can be used with Weapon Finesse is needlessly complicated and arbitrarily restrictive (nothing wrong with players wanting a Ninja/Swashbuckler/Duelist/Whatever Dwarf who fights with a light pick).
Just make finesse a property and change the feat into improved finesse. One feat and you are off to the races.
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I'd go with either that or, if you really don't want people to be able to finesse out of the box, just removing the Mythic requirement from Mythic Weapon Finesse, maybe rename it Greater Weapon Finesse instead as a result.
I'd go with either that or, if you really don't want people to be able to finesse out of the box, just removing the Mythic requirement from Mythic Weapon Finesse, maybe rename it Greater Weapon Finesse instead as a result.
There you go. In my opinion, this was a real slap in the face. We won't give you a feat for general use, but you can have it if you're mythic (because every GM uses mythic rules, right?). With that in mind, we'll give you all sorts of our setting specific material with Dexterity to damage....
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haha >>slap<< you're so not mythic
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Finesse (new weapon quality) - you may use your Dexterity bonus in place of your Strength bonus on attack rolls.
Weapon Finesse (alternate feat)
Prerequisites: Dexterity 13
Benefit: You can add your Dexterity bonus instead of your Strength bonus to all damage rolls made with finesse weapons. If you have a Strength penalty, it applies to your damage rolls as well. This damage is not increased by any condition or effect that would allow you to add 1.5 times your Strength bonus to damage (such as wielding your weapon 2-handed) but it is still reduced for off-hand attacks. You cannot use this ability while donning a shield of any kind.
Slashing Grace (alternate feat)
Prerequisites: Dexterity 13
Benefit: Choose an appropriately sized one-handed piercing or slashing weapon. You may treat that weapon as a finesse weapon so long as you keep one hand free.
Special: If you have taken the Weapon Focus feat for this weapon, or if you have the Panache class feature, you do not have to keep one hand free to gain the benefits of this feat. You may still not use a shield larger than a buckler while using this feat.
Special: If you have the Weapon Training (light blades) class feature, you may treat the weapon as a light blade with respect to that ability.
Dervish Dance (alternate feat)
Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, ranks in Dance equal to your character level
Benefit: You may treat an appropriately sized scimitar as a finesse weapon so long as you keep one hand free. You may use your Dance skill bonus in place of your Acrobatics skill bonus.
...
Crosspost from this thread, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on how I've tackled the issue. Part of my goal was to follow the (I believe) intended limitations of Dervish Dance and Slashing Grace, but to increase the range of viable weapons:
We leave Weapon Finesse unchanged.
Then we add Improved Weapon Finesse, which would work as Dervish Dance does currently but with any one light or one-handed weapon chosen by the player, rather than only the scimitar. This covers the needs of the agile monk, sneaky rogue, and the swashbuckler who wants to use more unusual weapons such as the shortspear or sword cane as well as the rapier, katana and scimitar.
Finally we add Greater Weapon Finesse, which loses Dervish Dance's off-hand restriction and would grant dexterity to hit and damage with any two light or one-handed weapons. Why two weapons? Because TWF with two different weapons is iconically very common (e.g. rapier and parrying dagger) but diversifying weapons is generally punished harshly by the Pathfinder mechanics - numerous combat feats (weapon focus, improved critical etc) only allow you to benefit with one weapon, a design decision I'd like to step away from if possible.
I'd add a rider to all of the feats listed above that penalties to your strength score will still affect your attack and damage rolls. If you have Improved Weapon Finesse, a strength of 7 and a dexterity of 16 your damage bonus would thus be +1. I'd also clarify that while you use your dexterity modifier for damage with your attacks, that does not mean that other feats or options automatically change - for example a person with improved weapon finesse would still gain bonus damage from feats based on Strength if he had Dragon Ferocity or Double Slice, not dexterity.
The finesse-->improved finesse-->greater finesse progression replicates what you can currently do with Sawtooth Sabres (EWP-->Weapon Finesse-->Slashing Grace), but leaves the choice of weapon up to the wielder and doesn't require sinking a level in a class you otherwise had no intention of playing.
The fairly harsh feat requirements for a shield or TWF user means that dex-based combat using both hands is primarily useful for classes that get lots of bonus feats - swashbucklers, warpriests, fighters, slayers, and rangers. You could dip various classes to get it online faster, which is how Sawtooth works now.
For classes that benefit from focusing on dexterity but doesn't necessarily want to use TWF such as rogues, magi, monks and brawlers, weapon Finesse & improved weapon finesse are good but not critical options. Two breeds of monks would show up - one focusing more on strength and damage output, the other focusing more on dexterity and defenses.
The barbarian, bloodrager, cavalier, inquisitor and the paladin are generally better off focusing on strength and less feat-intensive combat styles. They can still choose to go for dexterity, but it's a little outside their comfort zone unless they choose to multiclass to pick up some bonus feats.
Finally, after implementing the above I'd remove the Agile enhancement from the game. The benefit it grants is problematic to balance via WBL since it's incredibly expensive at low levels and incredibly cheap at high levels.
I'm also considering adding a rider to TWF that any feat which normally only affects one weapon you wield now affects both weapons - again, to make TWF with different weapons more attractive. IE if you're TWFing a rapier and a dagger and you have WF: Dagger, you'd get the +1 bonus with both weapons.
Well... I don't see the need to make TWFers spend yet another feat.
TWFing with two different weapons is the weakest combat style in the game. There is no need to punish it even further.
As I mentioned, limiting feats to a single weapon is basically pointless. Characters do not deal any more damage because they can switch their dagger for a rapier or whip. OTOH, these restrictions always create the "This legendary sword is amazing! But I have 3 weapon-specific feats, so I'll just sell Excalibur here and upgrade my scimitar" scenario.
I don't mind the existence of Agile enhancement... What bothers me is how much better it's than Dex-to-Damage feats (DD requires a free hand and Slashing Grace is... well... I'm sure everyone knows its issues by now).
Weapon Focus, Improved Critical and similar feats really should apply to Weapon Groups, rather than a single specific weapon. And Greater Weapon Finesse sort of feats should apply to any weapon affected by Weapon Finesse.
Awww, I was hoping this would be an interesting way to make it balanced.
I have no idea what you mean... Maybe you're under impression that Dex-to-Damage is too powerful?