Stick it with the pointy end - My first attempt at a Swashbuckler


Advice

1 to 50 of 76 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Dark Archive

I have been debating a bunch of different characters lately and I think I have finally settled on this fellow below. It is probably terrible, but lets go for it! Feel free to tear it apart and let me know how awful it is.

Edit: I should point out this is for PFS.

Side note: If anyone writes a class guide for Swasbucklers, "Stick it with the pointy end" should be the title. XD

Swashbuckly McSwashbuckler
Human Swashbuckler
Init +3; Perception +3

Defense

AC 18 (10 + Dex 3 + Shield 1 + Armor 3 + Dodge 1); Touch 14; Flat-Footed 14;
HP 12 (Favored Class bonus)
Fort +1; Ref +5; Will -1

Offense
Melee +4 Rapier 1d6+1, 18-20/x2
Ranged +4 Light Crossbow 1d8, 19-20/x2

Statistics
Str 13, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 16
Base Atk +1; CMB +4; CMD 14
Traits: Threatening Defender (Combat Expertise penalty reduced by 1), Gold Finger (+1 Disable Device and Sleight of Hand, One is now a class skill)
Feats: Dodge, Combat Expertise
Skills Acrobatics +6, Disable Device +6, Diplomacy +7, Perception +3, Climb +4, Swim +4;
Languages Common, Osirion

Feat Progression:
3: Improved Disarm
4*: Weapon Focus
5: Mobility or Toughness
7: Greater Disarm
8: Toughness or Mobility
9: Disarming Strike
11: Iron Will
12: ????

My initial thoughts:
* No power attack. I debated a long while where to try and fit it in. I could rearrange them, of course. Maybe move everything down a level and pick up power attack at level 3. My damage will be a bit lighter, since I decided to focus on disarming things.
* Fencing Grace will most likely force me to have to reorganize all of my feats, unless it is the Agile enchantment in feat form... then I will ignore it.
* If there isn't a dedicated rogue in the party, I can substitute (which is really the only reason I took Gold Finger).
* I am really relying on a decent AC more than HP. Using Combat Expertise, Mobility and Dodging Panache to try to avoid most damage. I have a strong feeling this will come back to bite me in the ass...


Is your concept intrinsically tied to using Disarm?

Honestly, this build looks far too defensive to me. If you are planning to be a damage-dealer, I would drop some of the defensive feats.

If you don't need to deal a lot of damage, and really just want to disarm people, then what you've got is probably fine. But I would caution you, that Disarm might not be as useful as you think. It does absolutely nothing against monsters, natural attacks, or most casters. Unless you know that your campaign is going to be focused on fighting humanoids, you may find your main trick is useless in most of the battles.

Anyway, I would definitely recommend subbing out Dodge for Power Attack, and probably the Mobility or Toughness slots for Combat Reflexes and Weapon Specialization. You really want the Combat Reflexes to take advantage of Opportune Parry and Riposte.

You have good HP as a Swashbuckler, and you have good AC, parry, and Dodging Panache, so I really don't think you need to build that defensively.

Dark Archive

The focus on defense is probably just a knee jerk reaction to my last PFS character, who died for being not defensive enough. After being a bit too aggro, he was surrounded and pummeled to death in a single round. I wanted to avoid that again. lol

Is the disarming schtick worth the feat investments? About half of the things you fight in Societies are humanoids with weapons, so I thought it could be a useful trick to hamper them. Maybe only invest into Improved Disarm and not the other two? My reasoning behind Disarming Strike is around that level, I will be criting on 15+, so why not put something in it that will add more?

This might be dumb, but I totally thought OPR required an Immediate Action to use, but it only requires an Action if you want to strike back after you parry. I didn't realize that. Thanks for pointing out my dumb.

So, maybe drop something in favor of Combat Reflexes and maybe Extra Panache? That way, I can fuel Opportune Parry more?


Well to me, dropping Dodge is a no-brainer. Not only are there better feats (if you're not taking Power Attack then go Combat Reflexes at first level), but is there any feat more boring than Dodge?

I would play it by ear on the Extra Panache. I just started a 5th-level Inspired Blade, and even without killing blows I've been pleasantly surprised how quickly the panache regeneration happens. Of course, you'll get even more killing blows with Power Attack...

As for Disarming Strike... you don't need to worry about that yet. As you play the character, you'll get a feel for what you want to take at later levels. Your biggest decision right now is if you want to keep the disarming shtick. If you do, then I'd say (1) Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm (3) Combat Reflexes (4) Weapon Focus (5) Power Attack or Extra Panache (7) Greater Disarm.


I might be missing something, but how are you taking combat expertise with only a 12 int?

I'd recommend getting slashing grace (scimitar) if you can and grab power attack after that. Why? Because slashing grace will add more damage than power attack will at the early levels (+3 damage versus +2). Plus it won't reduce your to hit.

Also, since you can't take combat expertise (unless I'm missing something) I'd recommend knocking your int down and bringing up your wisdom. Will saves should never be dumped. Failing will saves tends to kill your other party members not just you.

So basically get these feats in this order: Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Slashing Grace (Scimitar), Combat Reflexes, Power Attack.


Swashbucklers can use Cha instead of Int to qualify for Combat Expertise.

On a different subject, another reason not to take Extra Panache is that Plumes of Panache are so damn cheap.


RumpinRufus wrote:

Swashbucklers can use Cha instead of Int to qualify for Combat Expertise.

On a different subject, another reason not to take Extra Panache is that Plumes of Panache are so damn cheap.

I knew I was missing something somewhere. But that brings up my thoughts on the 12 int again. Is it needed for something? An extra skill maybe?

Oh, and I didn't comment on the whole disarming thing. Keep in mind that CMB is based on str and not dex so your checks are going to be a little low. I think that there's a feat somewhere that lets you use your dex on combat maneuvers, but that's another feat burned on trying to disarm an opponent.

Sovereign Court

Gunsmith Paladin wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:

Swashbucklers can use Cha instead of Int to qualify for Combat Expertise.

On a different subject, another reason not to take Extra Panache is that Plumes of Panache are so damn cheap.

I knew I was missing something somewhere. But that brings up my thoughts on the 12 int again. Is it needed for something? An extra skill maybe?

Oh, and I didn't comment on the whole disarming thing. Keep in mind that CMB is based on str and not dex so your checks are going to be a little low. I think that there's a feat somewhere that lets you use your dex on combat maneuvers, but that's another feat burned on trying to disarm an opponent.

With finesse you can use your dex for CMB for maneuvers which use your weapon.

Oh - and were I you I'd probably get my dex up to 18. Dex is the main stat for swashing. Helps attack/AC/reflex/and damage. Frankly - once you get slashing grace, there's no reason to have a strength that high. I'm assuming it's for power attack - but your damage should be solid with slashing grace. As a human - you can pick up slashing grace at 1st level. (weapon focus/slashing grace - you already get a better finesse) Then use either a longsword or a scimitar.

Really - slashing grace is the feat that makes the swashbuckler not suck. (and later the rapier feat they've announced but isn't technically out yet)


If you don't want power attack then drop the strength to 10 and push your wisdom score, but power attack will give you a decent amount of extra damage if you change your mind. In any event you tanking wisdom is not a good idea since it is already a poor save for you. Yes, I know you have charmed life, but it is not always on.


There is also Steadfast Personality, which is a wonderful feat to buff your Will save. And there's the trait Irrepresible, but I'm not sure if it is PFS legal.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:


With finesse you can use your dex for CMB for maneuvers which use your weapon.

I don't think that's so. Weapon Finesse says it applies only to attack rolls. To apply Dex to your CMB, and thus to combat maneuvers, you need Agile Maneuvers. Otherwise why would the latter feat exist?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Khelreddin wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:


With finesse you can use your dex for CMB for maneuvers which use your weapon.
I don't think that's so. Weapon Finesse says it applies only to attack rolls. To apply Dex to your CMB, and thus to combat maneuvers, you need Agile Maneuvers. Otherwise why would the latter feat exist?

Agile Maneuvers applies to ALL combat maneuvers. Weapon Finesse applies to Disarm, Trip, and Sunder, because those are the three maneuvers that you can use a weapon to make.

Sovereign Court

Khelreddin wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:


With finesse you can use your dex for CMB for maneuvers which use your weapon.
I don't think that's so. Weapon Finesse says it applies only to attack rolls. To apply Dex to your CMB, and thus to combat maneuvers, you need Agile Maneuvers. Otherwise why would the latter feat exist?

Things that buff attack rolls also affect CMB rolls. Inspire courage/blessing/etc.

And I've taken agile maneuvers for a maneuver master monk (specialized in dirty trick & grapple)


RumpinRufus wrote:
...Agile Maneuvers applies to ALL combat maneuvers. Weapon Finesse applies to Disarm, Trip, and Sunder, because those are the three maneuvers that you can use a weapon to make.

Interesting. Thanks for this clarification - it certainly matches with what it says on the SRD for Weapon Finesse, which I hadn't really looked at before. I've got a bit of tweaking of my medium cat animal companion to do.

Dark Archive

Gunsmith Paladin wrote:

I knew I was missing something somewhere. But that brings up my thoughts on the 12 int again. Is it needed for something? An extra skill maybe?

Skill checks are important in PFS. Trying to have a wide range of skills can be a great boon to your table mates. A lot more than in homebrew games. Hence why I would take a trait that allowed me to be a back up rogue in case we don't have one. Plus, extra skill points and extra languages are nice.

As a side note, I was speaking to one of our players at PFS tonight and he made an argument about playing a Witch. It was tempting and I might do it. If it does happen, then I might move this PC to either a back up or to NPC status for a future homebrew game. Not terribly important to you guys, but I might be asking for Witch advice in another thread soon. lol

Dark Archive

Since Swashbuckler abilities all focus on one-handed DEX-based weapon use, Piranha Strike is better than Power Attack for everything except Shatter Defenses builds - and doesn't require the 13 STR.

Dropping your STR and INT to 10 allows you to start with an 18 DEX:

Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16

Since Saswshbucklers are so focused on DEX and CHA, and since all melee PFS characters need a 14 CON (IMHO), I would urge you to use the Human Dual Talent alternate feat and go with a stat line like this:

Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16

Disarming is one of the weakest combat maneuver choices because it requires Combat Expertise as a feat tax AND it doesn't give your allies an attack of opportunity with the "Greater" version - and, as mentioned, it doesn't work unless your target is a humanoid non-caster. Way too many "ifs" there for me.

If you want to keep the ability to disarm humanoids, I would look to Lunge: you won't provoke if you opponent is 10' away, and the feat is a lot more versatile than Improved Disarm - without the feat tax.

If you decide to go with a 12 CON and dumped WIS, you need Toughness and Iron Will earlier.


get either a high crit chance weapon like the scimitar or grab teh longsword then weapon focus and slashing grace at level one for reliable damage, pump your dex up to 18 and drop your str since you wont need it. For ranged weapons grab a crossbow, heavy crossbow since you will most likely be doing damage with your range then trying to get close. Piranha strike at lvl 3 might be better so you get another 2 to damage. The dodge then disorienting maneuver can be used with acrobatics skill to let you get a bonus to attacks.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

For a disarm build i would totally go with a whip and get the whip feats along with slashing grace. You can take the human extra feat for proficiency. Or play a half-orc with some racial trait.
You can also trip and reposition very well and threaten a large area later.
Obviously take combat reflexes early and extra panache later.

Dark Archive

You can only use Piranha Strike with light weapons. Rapiers, Longswords and Scimitars are not light weapons. Therefore, you need Power Attack.

I am highly debating dropping the idea of disarm entirely. That frees up 4 feats (since I would have little reason to take Combat Expertise) and a trait.


I disagree with everyone who is saying "dump Str". Power Attack is just too important. (As I posted in another thread, my 5th-level Inspired Blade earned a GM audit last night for doing so much damage.)

I think 14 Str, 16 Dex is much better than 10 Str, 18 Dex. It totally lets you ignore any Dex to damage shenanigans for the first bunch of levels, and gives you the oh-so-important Power Attack. Because when you have full BAB, extra bonuses to hit, and you threaten crits on 15-20, then Power Attack is just fantastic.

I think dropping the disarm stuff is probably a wise choice. If you want to do disarming, pick up a Blue Scarf Swordmaster's Flair and disarm from reach. Gives you the benefit of Lunge for 2,500 gp without any of the penalties.

If you go for a hard-hitter build with Power Attack, Weapon Specialization, Combat Reflexes, I think you'll find it a lot more versatile. And you can still disarm from reach without provoking if you use the Swordmaster's Flair.

Sovereign Court

RumpinRufus wrote:

I think 14 Str, 16 Dex is much better than 10 Str, 18 Dex. It totally lets you ignore any Dex to damage shenanigans for the first bunch of levels, and gives you the oh-so-important Power Attack. Because when you have full BAB, extra bonuses to hit, and you threaten crits on 15-20, then Power Attack is just fantastic.

At 1st level with the 1st build & power attack you'd be at +3 to hit and +4 damage.

At 1st level with the 2nd build & slashing grace you'd be at +5 to hit & +4 damage.

(Of note - this is assuming weapon focus as your other feat - a requirement for slashing grace.)

Not to mention that your reflex save/AC/initiative/CMB (for most things)/skills will also go up from the dex. The only thing the strength alone loses you is carrying capacity (easily gotten around), climb, and CMD.

Which looks better?


Power Attack scales so much better with level. For Slashing Grace damage to scale like Power Attack does, you would have to gain a Dex point at every level.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a mistake to take Slashing Grace (or Fencing Grace.) The mistake, though, is to dump Str such that you can't take Power attack.

Dark Archive

I don't think a human swashbuckler needs more than a 13 charisma because of the human favoured class bonus. By level four your pool is 2, and by level 12 your pool is 4.

I would go:
Str 13, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 13

Qualifies for Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and while it benefits from an agile weapon or a Dex-to-damage feat, it doesn't require one.


Mergy wrote:
I don't think a human swashbuckler needs more than a 13 charisma because of the human favoured class bonus. By level four your pool is 2, and by level 12 your pool is 4.

I heartily disagree, for a bunch of reasons. One, you get Cha to saves by using Charmed Life. Two, you get Cha to AC by using Dodging Panache. Three, 2 or 4 panache is not enough. You always need to keep one unused for Precise Strike and a bunch of other deeds, so your effective pool is one less than your actual. And you really want to be parrying as much as you can, at least until you get one riposte off.

The only reason I could see to take that low of a Cha is that you're stocking up on Plumes of Panache, but even then I don't think it's worth losing the bonus on saves from Charmed Life.

But you are right that the human favored class bonus is totally worth it. More panache is always better.


If you are going rapier and have a positive INT, take a look at the Inspired Blade archetype.

Dark Archive

RumpinRufus wrote:
Mergy wrote:
I don't think a human swashbuckler needs more than a 13 charisma because of the human favoured class bonus. By level four your pool is 2, and by level 12 your pool is 4.

I heartily disagree, for a bunch of reasons. One, you get Cha to saves by using Charmed Life. Two, you get Cha to AC by using Dodging Panache. Three, 2 or 4 panache is not enough. You always need to keep one unused for Precise Strike and a bunch of other deeds, so your effective pool is one less than your actual. And you really want to be parrying as much as you can, at least until you get one riposte off.

The only reason I could see to take that low of a Cha is that you're stocking up on Plumes of Panache, but even then I don't think it's worth losing the bonus on saves from Charmed Life.

But you are right that the human favored class bonus is totally worth it. More panache is always better.

I'd go with Opportune Parry over Dodging Panache in most scenarios due to how much better attack scales versus AC. I'm also not sold on Charmed Life being a great reason to pump Charisma. That said, drop Int to 8 for a 14 and boost with a headband. I'd sooner use the Extra Panache feat than stunt my important stats for a Charisma score higher than 14.


You don't even need Int for the Inspired Blade, because the only things that Int affects is how much panache you get and the Inspired Strike bonus, and both are minimum 1.

My character has 10 Int and still uses Inspired Blade. It's an extra panache, free Weapon Focus, and extra damage from Rapier Training. You do lose out on panache regen from killing blows, and you lose flexibility as far as which weapon to use, but I think it's still worth it.

Even if you had 7 Int, then Inspired Blade would be just as worth it.


Is there any way to optimize the Parry and Riposte ability? I mean I know I saw something that allowed you to make a second attack of opportunity after you hit your first one. I dont remember the name, but that could be sweet in combo.


I think you're talking about the Fortuitous weapon enchantment, but sadly I don't think it works with Opportune Parry and Riposte.

When using Opportune Parry and Riposte, you never actually make an AoO. You expend the use of an AoO to parry, and then make an attack roll as an immediate action to riposte. So, any abilities that trigger on an AoO do not apply.

Opportune Parry and Riposte wrote:
At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll. If her result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses. The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature's attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made. Upon performing a successful parry and if she has at least 1 panache point, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action make an attack against the creature whose attack she parried, provided that creature is within her reach.

But, if you want to improve your Parry and Riposte, then nothing is better than the Answering weapon enchantment.


you don't need that much penache unless you're doing a dungeon that can't be crit.

The one swift action per turn is a serious bottleneck. Riposte is so nice that charmed life and the movind dodge are hardly worth having at all.


The more panache the better. Parry and Riposte is just good.

I hugely disagree that Charmed Life isn't worth it. An untyped bonus to any save? If you have to make a Will save to stay in the fight, that's the only roll that matters in the whole battle.

Anecdotally, last night I had to make a save vs a confusion bomb or I would have been confused for 8 turns! Using Charmed Life I hit the DC of the save exactly.

As for Dodging Panache, I haven't used it yet but the best way I can see is to foil a full attack. A monster pounces on you? No problemo, step away on the first hit and they can't reach you with the rest of their attacks. An enemy 5-foot steps to full attack you? Again, use Dodging Panache and step away, and they only get a single attack vs your buffed AC.

Sovereign Court

RumpinRufus wrote:

Power Attack scales so much better with level. For Slashing Grace damage to scale like Power Attack does, you would have to gain a Dex point at every level.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a mistake to take Slashing Grace (or Fencing Grace.) The mistake, though, is to dump Str such that you can't take Power attack.

I've always thought that maxing power attack is overrated. At higher levels it increases the damage - sure. But it also increases the accuracy penalty. And since your damage sans power attack goes up - you're risking more by risking a miss. Especially once you get iterative attacks - you'll have a good chance of missing your 2nd attack with power attack up.

Sure - at (for example) 9th level - you can get +6 damage from power attack - you're taking -3 to hit.

So - if you have a total damage of (for example) 1d6+18 damage without power attack which is pretty conservative. (9 from precise strike/2 from weapon training/5 from dex/2 from magic weapon)

And let's say that between your two attacks without power attack you can hit with an average of an 11 on the die. (makes the math easier)

So - with your 2 attacks you'll hit for an average of 27.95 damage. (1 hit with an average of 21.5 damage & a 30% chance of a x2 crit.)

With power attack and those same numbers (would actually be lower since your dex would be lower with the other build) you'll hit for 1d6+24 damage, and hit with an average of a 14 on the die.

So - with your 2 power attacks you'll hit for an average of 25.025 damage. (.7 hits with an average of 27.5 damage & a 30% chance of a x2 crit)

So - not only would power attacking reduce your damage, but it also makes you recover panache slower. Costs you a feat. Makes your build require higher strength which lowers base damage/to hit/AC/initiative/reflex.

In certain situations power attack could be more useful. On the charge. (the extra +2 and no iterative attack) When something's super easy to hit etc.

Overall - I think the build would be better off dropping power attack and getting a higher dex.

(Of note - power attack is totally worth it for a two-handed build as the increased bonus damage shifts the #s in power attack's favor & they need a high strength anyway.)

And yes - I do like to run the stats like this. I'm an accountant by trade. Sue me.

Edit: (If you're interested - power attack with those damage #s becomes worth it once you can hit on a 7 without power attack. Though that ignores the increased base damage & AC from the higher dex build/cost of a feat etc.)

Dark Archive

I think you are undervaluing the Dodging Panache. Sure, the parry can cancel an attack, but the dodge can cancel all of them. Get stuck with a full attack somehow, dodge out of the way of the first attack and move back 5 feet. Now the other attacks are out of range. They wasted their full round action.

Let's say you get ambushed by a lion. It uses its pounce ability on you. Oh no, that is three hefty attacks coming your way. Except you spend a panache, get an ac bonus against the strongest attack and move out of range of the follow up claws. The lion can't take a 5 foot step, it spent a full round charging. The parry could deflect the bite, but you still have to follow up attacks to worry about. Are you going to spend three panache to do what one would? (This example assumes you are not flat footed)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Dodging panache with lunge might be a good combo too to avoid full attacks while still getting your own in on certain opponents.


Koujow wrote:

I think you are undervaluing the Dodging Panache. Sure, the parry can cancel an attack, but the dodge can cancel all of them. Get stuck with a full attack somehow, dodge out of the way of the first attack and move back 5 feet. Now the other attacks are out of range. They wasted their full round action.

Let's say you get ambushed by a lion. It uses its pounce ability on you. Oh no, that is three hefty attacks coming your way. Except you spend a panache, get an ac bonus against the strongest attack and move out of range of the follow up claws. The lion can't take a 5 foot step, it spent a full round charging. The parry could deflect the bite, but you still have to follow up attacks to worry about. Are you going to spend three panache to do what one would? (This example assumes you are not flat footed)

You have really sold me on dodge you know that?


The Lunge feat is not even needed now that Blue Scarf Swordmaster's Flair is a thing.

Enemy 5-foot steps to full attack you, you Dodging Panache away. On your turn, full attack at reach, and do the same thing on their next turn if they 5-foot step again and try a full attack.

Koujow wrote:
Let's say you get ambushed by a lion. It uses its pounce ability on you. Oh no, that is three hefty attacks coming your way. Except you spend a panache, get an ac bonus against the strongest attack and move out of range of the follow up claws. The lion can't take a 5 foot step, it spent a full round charging. The parry could deflect the bite, but you still have to follow up attacks to worry about. Are you going to spend three panache to do what one would? (This example assumes you are not flat footed)

Why would this not work if you are flat-footed?

Dark Archive

So I'm a little embarrassed I overlooked that aspect of Dodging Panache. I would say that a human is still best off with a 14 charisma max, however; you can grab Extra Panache with your bonus feat and still have 4 at first level.

Dodging Panache also seems like an excellent choice for Signature Deed. That or Opportune Parry and Riposte. Ugh, so many swift/immediate action choices...


Forget lunge. You want the swashbucklers flaire: blue heinkerchief. As long as you're holding it you can spend a penache point to gain reach for a minute. Works for either sarantite dervish dancers or buckler users.

Silver Crusade

I prefer an ability spread of 10/18/12/8/10/16 for a human, with 1st level feats of Steadfast Personality and Combat Reflexes, or feats of Weapon Focus (scimitar) and Slashing Grace (scimitar). However, I'm partial to the rapier so I'll probably be holding off on playing my swashbuckler until Origins comes out in November.

Dark Archive

RumpinRufus wrote:
Why would this not work if you are flat-footed?

Well, I originally thought that you couldn't do the dodge flat footed, but you can. Problem is, the dodge gives you a Dodge bonus to AC, which I am fairly certain you lose no matter what when flat footed.


Well, regardless of whether you get an AC boost, Dodging Panache still lets you completely avoid all but the first attack (assuming the enemy has moved like the scenarios that have been described.)

If you are flat-footed, that's even more reason to not want to take a full attack to the face.


Also, to belatedly address the calculations by Charon's Little Helper:

Two assumptions were made in your calculations: no DR and full attack.

If you add in DR 5, Power Attack becomes more favorable, and if there is DR 10 then you will always be better off Power Attacking.

And, if you are making a single attack instead of a full attack, the AC at which Power Attack doesn't add up is about 3 higher.

So, if none of your enemies have DR and you always can get a full attack, then maybe Power Attack isn't worth it. In the typical game however, it's a solid investment.


I'd definitely try to fit Power Attack if possible.

If you decide to go with Fencing Grace I'd actually suggest taking Dervish Dance as well. I have a Fencing Grace swashbuckler in my game who struggles a lot whenever he faces enemies with DR against piercing weapons. Fencing Grace & Dervish Dance means you have dex to damage with both piercing and slashing weapons, which gives you some extra options when facing monsters with damage reduction.


Kudaku, you could also just take Weapon Versatility instead of Dervish Dance.

Although, then it's up to your GM to decide about whether a rapier that you're using as slashing counts as a "piercing weapon" for the purposes of the swashbuckler class abilites. But, you would lose all of those if you were Dervish Dancing anyway.


RumpinRufus wrote:
Although, then it's up to your GM to decide about whether a rapier that you're using as slashing counts as a "piercing weapon" for the purposes of the swashbuckler class abilites. But, you would lose all of those if you were Dervish Dancing anyway.

Dervish Dance explicitly says that you can treat your scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all class features, so that definitely works for a swashbuckler. As you note, the synergy between Weapon Versatility and swashbuckler abilities is more ambiguous.

Since Koujow's character is made for PFS I figured Id' go with the RAW-safe option and recommend Dervish Dance.

That said, if you trust your local GMs to rule that Weapon Versatility works with swashbuckler deeds that's definitely the better feat. :)

Dark Archive

RumpinRufus wrote:

Well, regardless of whether you get an AC boost, Dodging Panache still lets you completely avoid all but the first attack (assuming the enemy has moved like the scenarios that have been described.)

If you are flat-footed, that's even more reason to not want to take a full attack to the face.

Thing is, I think that even if they haven't moved, I think they are still boned. Technically, when you are using all of your attacks, you are suppose to declare that before rolling. We all kind of skip it, but you are suppose to go "I am going to use a Full Round Action to attack." You can't go "I am going to make an attack. He stepped away? I move with him." You declare your intentions beforehand and then afterwards, any kinds of reactions to your actions are played. You don't get to react to the reactions (unless you had some ability that let you, such as Step Up, which I think doesn't actually work, since it doesn't count as a 5 foot step).

If I am correct, this kind of adds a whole new bluff to your game with your GM. He has to go "Is he going to spend the panache to move away if I call for a full attack? Or should I go for one attack and move in?"

Also, I don't believe you can take a 5 foot step inbetween attacks. Unless I am mistaken, isn't there a feat that allows you to do so? Which means without the feat, after the Swashbuckler dodges away, if they don't have the feat, there is nothing they can do but either waste the rest of their turn or attack other enemies in range.


You can decide between making a standard action attack and a full attack after resolving your first attack. It's a nifty rule option for when your first attack kills someone and you don't want to waste the rest of your round.


also a 5ft step should be allowed to be taken at any time during your turn. so it could be after your 2nd attack on a full attack to move to a new target


Does concealment not come up alot in PFS? I see alot of swashbuckler builds without shadow strike. Also, if I am making a character with a 16 charisma, I'm maxing use magic device and taking dangerously curious trait. I don't play PFS, so I don't know how well that would work.

Silver Crusade

I did that on my swashbuckler Yulix. The UMD thing, not the Shadow Strike thing.

1 to 50 of 76 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Stick it with the pointy end - My first attempt at a Swashbuckler All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.