I need a few ways to make the Rapier even better for a Swashbuckler using the Inspired Blade Archetype. I know it can be finessed and focused and possibly specialized but not Piranha Strike due to not being a light weapon.
But is there any other feat we can take to make the weapon even better?
The rapier is essentially non-functional as a Swash weapon until Fencing Grace comes out.
I agree to a point, but I mean after it comes out.
There are no Rapier specific feats that I can find, other than Fencing Grace. Just take a Scimitar and call it a Sabre.
There are no Rapier specific feats that I can find, other than Fencing Grace. Just take a Scimitar and call it a Sabre.
Inspired Blade can only use deeds and gain Panache when using a rapier.
There are no Rapier specific feats that I can find, other than Fencing Grace. Just take a Scimitar and call it a Sabre.Inspired Blade can only use deeds and gain Panache when using a rapier.
Well then you're stuck with the Rapier. And as I said, Fencing Grace seems to be the only Rapier-specific feat.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"......due to not being a light weapon." (Sorry, don't know how to stick it)
A Rapier is actually a one-handed weapon, its just finessable like an elven curve blade (two handed weapon).
It's on par with a scimitar, arguably better than a longsword. Only falls behind exotic weapons like the falcata. I'm not really seeing anything wrong with the rapier as a weapon, especially with Fencing Grace. The actual dice of a weapon don't end up being super relevant for the sort of martial class that would be using a rapier in the first place, as they're going to be all about crits and the multiplication of static bonuses.
Power Attack, Weapon Specialization, Fencing Grace, Precise Strike. Plenty of static bonuses to be had.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Would Fencing Grace and Power Attack Stack? I mean if I can apply my Dex and my Str to a hit then yes this would be useful
You wouldn't add both Dex and Strength to damage. You would add the static damage bonus from Power Attack.
If you had a 13 Strength and an 18 Dex, Fencing Grace, Power Attack, and a +3 BAB, you could swing at +6 (3 BAB + 4 Dex - 1 Power Attack) for 1d6+6 (4 Dex + 2 Power Attack) damage. If you were a third level Swashbuckler, you'd also add Precise Strike to this, swinging for 1d6+9 (4 Dex + 2 PA + 3 Precise Strike). Not too shabby. On a crit, that'd jump to 2d6+18.
Remember Precise Strike is Precision Damage
a Crit would be 1d6+12+3 Precise Strike.
PFSRD says it must be a worship of a Good God not Desna specifically. And to be sure I understood you right you mean Crit with a Rapier confirm with a x4 weapon right? Might not be to bad if you have someone swinging a weapon with a high crit and a lot of strength and static bonuses
|
PFSRD strips out all Golarion specific text, but the feat requires you to worship Desna. See Archives of Nethys for the unaltered feat text.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't see Butterfly's Sting requiring an alignment or deity of any kind.
Also remember- proper names won't be referenced in the d20pfsrd even if the rules require it. They had to strip all that stuff out.
http://www.paizo.com/prd doesn't have that restriction.
-S
PFSRD says it must be a worship of a Good God not Desna specifically. And to be sure I understood you right you mean Crit with a Rapier confirm with a x4 weapon right? Might not be to bad if you have someone swinging a weapon with a high crit and a lot of strength and static bonuses
As noted, d20pfsrd is not allowed to use the intellectual property of Paizo, so specific names (such as deities) cannot be referenced. However, the restriction is to Desnan worshippers.
And yes, he means you crit fish with your rapier and pass the critical along to someone else who packs more of a wallop with a single attack who hopefully has a higher critical multiplier weapon, especially since your precision damage wont get multiplied and is a large portion of your static damage.
And yes, he means you crit fish with your rapier and pass the critical along to someone else who packs more of a wallop with a single attack who hopefully has a higher critical multiplier weapon, especially since your precision damage wont get multiplied and is a large portion of your static damage.
That would stop you from regaining panache though, right?
And yes, he means you crit fish with your rapier and pass the critical along to someone else who packs more of a wallop with a single attack who hopefully has a higher critical multiplier weapon, especially since your precision damage wont get multiplied and is a large portion of your static damage.That would stop you from regaining panache though, right?
If you are a Inspired Blade Archetype yes then it would. If you are a stock or other archetype Swashbuckler if you kill someone you gain a Panache point back
|
|
And yes, he means you crit fish with your rapier and pass the critical along to someone else who packs more of a wallop with a single attack who hopefully has a higher critical multiplier weapon, especially since your precision damage wont get multiplied and is a large portion of your static damage.That would stop you from regaining panache though, right?
I had the same concern, but no you would regain panache, as you still confirm the critical. It's the act of confirming the critical that regains panache, not actually dealing a critical hit.
I had the same concern, but no you would regain panache, as you still confirm the critical. It's the act of confirming the critical that regains panache, not actually dealing a critical hit.And yes, he means you crit fish with your rapier and pass the critical along to someone else who packs more of a wallop with a single attack who hopefully has a higher critical multiplier weapon, especially since your precision damage wont get multiplied and is a large portion of your static damage.That would stop you from regaining panache though, right?
But you are not the one confirming it with that style because you are passing it along which confirms it.
Ummm, doesn't the swashbuckler regain pinashe when crit confirms? So just passing it on wouldn't all together stop this? You still confirmed a crit, you just did nothing with it...
1) ninja'ed.
2) no, you still confirm before passing it on, so you still get pinache back.
|
|
You are confirming the crit before you pass it on. The scenario is as follows: You threaten. You then roll to confirm. You hit to confirm, and immediately regain panache. You then use butterlfy's sting to pass that crit to an ally.
Here is a link to a previous thread that changed my mind on this.
|
"......due to not being a light weapon." (Sorry, don't know how to stick it)
A Rapier is actually a one-handed weapon, its just finessable like an elven curve blade (two handed weapon).
The problem referenced wasn't about applicability of weapon finesse (which it can use, as you correctly pointed out) but the applicability of piranha strike, which will not work with a one handed weapon such as a rapier.
You are confirming the crit before you pass it on. The scenario is as follows: You threaten. You then roll to confirm. You hit to confirm, and immediately regain panache. You then use butterlfy's sting to pass that crit to an ally.
Here is a link to a previous thread that changed my mind on this.
Ahhh cool. Yeah reading through it it looks like it should work. Nice!
Too bad it doesn't work with inspired blade though, cause I really like that archetype.
I totally disagree that Fencing Grace is required for a rapier Swash. You need 13 Str for Power Attack anyway, so it's easy to bump that up to 14. At that point, assuming 18 Dex, then Fencing Grace is basically just Weapon Specialization.
Maybe at higher levels when you've really pumped Dex it may become vital, but at low levels it's take-it-or-leave-it.
Whether it works or not depends on whether "confirming" a critical hit and "scoring" a critical hit are the same thing or not.
|
|
Confirming a critical hit is a defined game term. It's the act of succeeding on a second attack roll with the same bonus as the attack that threatened.
Butterfly's String specifically states you must confirm the crit before passing it on. The Panache class feature states you regain panache when you confirm the critical hit.
Critical Hit with a Light or One-Handed Piercing Melee Weapon: Each time the swashbuckler confirms a critical hit with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon, she regains 1 panache point. Confirming a critical hit on a helpless or unaware creature or a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the swashbuckler's character level doesn't restore panache.
When you confirm a critical hit against a creature, you can choose to forgo the effect of the critical hit and grant a critical hit to the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack before the start of your next turn. Your attack only deals normal damage, and the next ally automatically confirms the hit as a critical.
Yeah, but inspired blade says "score" not "confirm", which is why I think it doesn't work with that archetype.
Imbicatus, what Paladin of Baha-who? is saying is the "Inspired Panache" feature of the Inspired Blade has different text than Swashbuckler Panache. Inspired Panache regenerates on "scoring" a critical hit.
I personally think "scoring" and "confirming" would mean the exact same thing mechanically, but that's where the confusion comes from.
|
As noted, d20pfsrd is not allowed to use the intellectual property of Paizo, so specific names (such as deities) cannot be referenced. However, the restriction is to Desnan worshippers.
Claxon is correct. We can't SAY Desna or use other Golarion words on the site. The original wording does state you must worship Desna. However, since we can't use the word Desna we (I) made an executive decision to alter the wording to simply be "a good god."
I hope that this answers your questions and that you continue to find d20pfsrd.com useful in your campaigns.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just got home from a game playing a 5th-level Inspired Blade. I was doing so much damage that the GM audited my sheet to check that everything was legal.
So yeah, whoever said rapier is non-functional without Fencing Grace is dead wrong.
Just got home from a game playing a 5th-level Inspired Blade. I was doing so much damage that the GM audited my sheet to check that everything was legal.
So yeah, whoever said rapier is non-functional without Fencing Grace is dead wrong.
Fencing Grace would really just be icing on the cake. It does however stink that the iconic weapon of the swashbuckling type takes a backseat to thinks like the Bastard sword because of how the feat is written.
I honestly would have liked to have seen no feat at all to do this, but rather that the swashbuckler class got the ability to get dex to damage with certain weapons weapons.
I'm also not a big fan of dex to damage in general, and don't allow the agile enchantment.
It seems weird that rapier doesn't qualify for Piranha strike. I mean weapon finesse and BAB +1 are the requirements for it and rapiers are finesse-able. It seems obvious that Rapiers should qualify under the same exception that allows it to be used with weapon finesse.
The flavor of the feat says: "You make a combination of quick strikes, sacrificing accuracy for multiple, minor wounds that prove exceptionally deadly." That sounds like how one wields a rapier to me. Certainly makes more sense than power attack.
So I guess I'm saying ask your GM for a simple houserule rather than the overly complicated workaround. Unless this is for PFS in which case I can't help you because I don't play PFS.
I agree, fencing grace isn't needed if you have say 13/14 str and PA. It is delicious icing though.
Just got home from a game playing a 5th-level Inspired Blade. I was doing so much damage that the GM audited my sheet to check that everything was legal.
So yeah, whoever said rapier is non-functional without Fencing Grace is dead wrong.
How did you manage that?
+1 Fortuitous Rapier combined with Swashbucklers Opportune Parry and Riposte is just sick.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just got home from a game playing a 5th-level Inspired Blade. I was doing so much damage that the GM audited my sheet to check that everything was legal.
So yeah, whoever said rapier is non-functional without Fencing Grace is dead wrong.
How did you manage that?
+1 Fortuitous Rapier combined with Swashbucklers Opportune Parry and Riposte is just sick.
Super simple, nothing gimmicky.
Power Attack, Weapon Specialization, Rapier Training (from Inspired Blade), +2 Str, Precise Strike, and a +1 rapier. The early Improved Critical that Swashbucklers get means that you crit like crazy. And if you want even more damage, you can spend Panache to double the Precise Strike. And of course on Parry and Riposte.
Just got home from a game playing a 5th-level Inspired Blade. I was doing so much damage that the GM audited my sheet to check that everything was legal.
So yeah, whoever said rapier is non-functional without Fencing Grace is dead wrong.
How did you manage that?
+1 Fortuitous Rapier combined with Swashbucklers Opportune Parry and Riposte is just sick.
Super simple, nothing gimmicky.
Power Attack, Weapon Specialization, Rapier Training (from Inspired Blade), +2 Str, Precise Strike, and a +1 rapier. The early Improved Critical that Swashbucklers get means that you crit like crazy. And if you want even more damage, you can spend Panache to double the Precise Strike. And of course on Parry and Riposte.
Could you swap out the +2 Str with Fencers Grace and still maintain a decent score?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I intend to eventually take Fencer's Grace, but right now it would just be a +1 to damage, since I have 14 Str and 17 Dex (no belt.) By the time I get to 20 Dex (level 8 and a +2 belt) then I will probably take Fencing Grace.