Hey guys, I am trying to build a Flame Oracle. I know that blasters are not super effective as the game goes on, but I do not really care about being super effective. I am not trying to min-max here, I am trying to have fun launching fireballs, laughing, and laughing.
Did I mention laughing? My character is going to be doing that alot.
First off, since we are going Thematic, the choice of Curse is obvious. Blackened gives me a -4 on on weapon attack rolls, and adds a ton of extra fire spells as I level. Now this may seem like a terrible idea since I will have to melee something eventually, however, we're not here to make smart ideas. We are here to maximize the amount of fire we can launch at things at any given point of time, and if I run out of spells that is just too darn bad.
Mystery is obviously, Flame, which gives me even more fire spells and some bonuses towards those fire spells plus Intimidate as a class skill which is nice as an Oracle. Ideal Revelations include Burning Magic, Cinder Dance, Form of Flame, and Wings of Fire in some variety of order. Plus some Revelation or other I guess, probably not very important compared to those first four.
We will be working under the assumption that our GM will allow us to cast spells while using Form of Flame to transform into an elemental, since it does not explicitly say anywhere that a fire elemental cannot cast spells (to my knowledge).
Our ideal race is Ifrit for multiple reasons, One, a GM may be willing to allow you to use the Flame Mystery like an Elemental (Fire) Bloodline since it seems silly that the Sorcerers and Clerics gain a bonus but the Flame Mystery does not. For a second, the Ifrit race gives you everything you want on a Flame Oracle. Dexterity, Charisma, and Initiative. Wildfire heart is chosen almost without thought. Yes, losing 5 fire resistance is painful, but since we will have 4 other ways of reducing fire damage I think it is fine (resist energy, Molten Skin, Form of Flame, and Fiery Body). Secondly, Efreti Magic is really good since you can cast reduce person on yourself for the Dex bonus and the AC and you already have Burning Hands from your mystery and your curse.
Let us assume we are given the following stastical values to assign, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, and 10.
My idea is to use the stats like so:
10,16,14,13,12, and 15 then we add in our racial bonuses: 10, 18, 14, 13, 10, and 17. Our level 4 bonus goes to Charisma to make it 10,18,13,14,10, and 18 by level four which gives us some serious potential.
Now you may notice I am going pretty ham on Dex, that is because we are going heavy on the AC, Initiative, and the Fly skill for when we hit level 7. Together with Wildfire Heart and the improved initiative Feat, we have +12 initiative at level 1. Guess who is always going first, that is right, you are. Fireballs are most effective on groups of people, so we want to move before they can mingle with your group's frontline and you have to go for small and more precise spells.
Additionally, I have a nice Int, that is because I want skill points, but I also plan to take Arithmancy and having a really high spellcraft to cast my spells at a really high caster level.
Other than Arithmancy, Spell Focus Divination, Spell Focus Evocation, Mage's Tatoo, and Improved Initiative, I am stuck on just what feats I should focus on, or whether those are even the better spells to focus on since there are all the metamagical feats and other things that could be helpful. Maybe Burning Spell to stack with Burning Magic, maybe empowered, and probably quicken.
I could use some help picking out spells that would be useful from the cleric list, I am probably set on damage spells which means I should have some buffs, more damage, heals, or perhaps resists or anti-caster spells. I doubt I will need much in the way of defensive magics, though I guess it couldn't hurt given my awful will save, since I have 40ft movespeed and some absolutely absurd Dexterity off stacking all my dex improvements. Reduce Person, Form of Flame, and eventually Fiery Body makes me basically untouchable off my Dex...
Though I do have a question about Form of Flame and Fiery Body, do they remove my AC bonus from my armor/shield?
Anyway, I could really use any suggestions on making this more fiery. All advice will be appreciated.
No one wants to help me sling more fireballs than a wand-mad Wizard?
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My biggest thought is that blackened and the flame mystery have some redundancy to them. Haunted would be mechanically better and give you some additional tricks with no loss of spells known.
Magical Lineage in fireball is something you definitely want, and I would consider Eschew Materials to solve the problem of casting without components once you're using elemental body. Consider also getting Elemental Spell with acid or electricity so that you aren't useless against fire immunity. Burning Spell works with acid as well, if you're keen to the idea.
Fire resistance is the most common by over double of the next, same goes for fire immunity. One trick ponies can be shut down. Would highly advise that you have at least a second trick as Mergy has suggested. For builds like this i really prefer the elven archtype that gets a free spell each level cherry picked from sorc/wiz lists. This would allow fireball, but also cone of cold, magic missle, and acid arrow. However I don't know your campaign or GM, YMMV
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+1 for Haunted! I played a snake charmer Flame Oracle called Cagliostro the Great, and having access to Minor Image is fantastic. I would recommend Silent Spell and maybe Eldritch Heritage if you're stuck for feat choices - nabbing a familiar (which you can later upgrade with Improve Familiar) is really nice, especially if your GM rules that he can grab stuff from your pack for you.
Oh, and the Eversmoking Bottle is really OP with either the Ifrit feat or the Flames revelation to see through smoke. Check with your GM and party members first, because this will straight up wreck encounters.
PS: The Elemental Spell Metamagic is your friend.
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Blackened was both for flavor and the additional spells, Burning hands is the only real form of overlap I believe, though maybe at later levels there is also some overlap. The whole point was that as a pure caster the downside did not hurt me much.
Magical Liniage is something I can agree on, and you are right, avoiding fire resistance is something I will have to think about.
Spell Focus Divination is a requirement (sadly) for Arithmancy which allows you to cast spells at a higher level after doing some math and making a spellcraft check. It stacks with Mage's Tatoo and would allow me to throw some insane fireballs, at plus two levels, at the cost of four feats which is kind of lame, wish it was fewer. Though I do have the Oracle spells which I can use to make the Divination almost worthwhile.
Free spells cherry picked from the wiz/sorcerer line sounds fantastic, but what Archetype is that? Or is that an entirely different Mystery?
Haunted is certainly an option, and is my pick of choice for my other Oracle (Dervish Dancer, Metal Mystery), but as I said, I was going for thematic purposes. Flame obsessed dancer, wears generally skimpy clothing and long gloves, pulls the whole seduction act and then pulls off her gloves and threatens to fireball the guy unless he tells her what she wants to know. I could totally change that around though.
This is mostly Theory crafting, I am trying to build this one for general purposes to modify as needed. I already have a back-up for my current campaign, and this is an option I was exploring before I abandoned it and wanted to come back to it and give it a look.
The Eversmoking Bottle seems really awesome, though it would screw with most parties but so much concealment paired with some fireballs would be fantastic.
Will have to pay more attention to metamagic, should just go through the feats right now.
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Fire resistance is the most common by over double of the next, same goes for fire immunity.
This information is factually incorrect. There are more cold resistant monsters than fire and more of them with higher resistances. Electricity is a close third. Electricity also has more monsters with immunity than fire. There are a few threads that give a breakdown. However, new material since their posts may have altered the data. Also, check the links in reverse order since the last one is older than the first. :)
As a one trick pony, I have not been shut down yet. Mischief and I just blast and blast and everything burns. Fire resistance is never something I care about unless they also have spell resistance and I am rolling poorly. My strategy for fire resistant creatures is to burn them dead and make their resistance meaningless. So far, this hasn't worked but then every fire resistant monster faced has also had spell resistance and I have not rolled higher than a 6 to penetrate it except twice (in which case they proceeded to save and take nothing or very little damage).
But I am positive that the second I beat resistance and they don't save, their resistance really won't matter.
I will run in terror and with an unfair glare in my eye from anything with fire immunity.
Maybe this will give you some ideas.
I have this character almost. Different race is about the only big difference.
I recommend the dual cursed archetype. I grabbed haunted and blackened myself. The misfortune and fortune revelations have saved our butts so many times it isn't even funny.
Spell-wise I can cast cure spontaneously so I don't worry about healing too much and keep a wand for most of it. I pick up spell knowledge pages for common ailments to have them handy (remove fear, remove sickness, lesser restoration, remove disease, remove curse, etc).
As for other spells, I try not to be too redundant. Bless is one of my big go to spells (usually first round of every battle we get into). Besides that I also recommend burning disarm, comprehend languages, obscuring mist, sanctuary, and shield of faith.
Second level spells I don't have a ton yet, but my own recommendations so far are Grace, Defending Bone, Pilfering Hand, Silence, and Enthrall. Third level I have Dispel Magic with plans on taking Invisibility Purge soon. Also Prayer since I noticed it stacks with Bless and my party loves that spell.
^Both Spirit Guide (assuming this is the one you are talking about) and Dual-Cursed Oracle remove the Class Skills gained from your Mystery, so you can't take both Archetypes at once. The table on d20pfsrd.com is missing the "C" in the Mystery Class Skills column, so it's easy to miss this -- you have to look at each Archetype description.
^Both Spirit Guide (assuming this is the one you are talking about) and Dual-Cursed Oracle remove the Class Skills gained from your Mystery, so you can't take both Archetypes at once.
Aw crud, thanks for pointing this out. No more Dual-Cursed Oracles for me :(. Hero Lab doesn't handle conflicting archetypes well.
Also, I'd stay away from Burning Magic to be honest. It's really note as great as it looks. I would pick up another damage dealer revelation such as Fire Breath and definitely Fire Storm... Fire Storm is sick! By 11th level you can create 110 cubic feet of fire... that's 22x22 (completely filled) square worth of 11d6 damage. And it's shapeable!
Burning Magic doesn't work with your Revelations, only your spells. And an extra +3 damage to your fireballs is just kind of... meh. Plus based off the wording of the Revelation (and how much of a stickler your GM is...) for Burning Magic to work, the spell must require and saving throw, which the target has to fail, to even qualify for the extra damage.
I'd suggest taking glorious heat. It is minor healing and a nice buff just added to your blasts.
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I use Burning magic and alchemical power components. I can say this much: against weaker foes it is a waste of time. Everything dies before it is relevant. Against things that are appropriate for your level and aren't fire resistant, the cumulative fire damage adds up.
Example: You go first and burning hands 3 baddies. kaboom! They take 24 damage and can save for half. One saves and takes 12, the others are not so lucky. Now they go. Uh-oh spaghettio!! The bad guys take 1 damage from the revelation and 1d6 from the power component. That's about 4-6 extra damage with more probably coming on their next turn depending on what you rolled for the duration of burning magic. These guys are nearly toast! Now, of course you're about to get creamed in this situation but if you have the heat aura revelation, defending bone up, a great ac, stunning barrier (preferably greater) or an item that operates like fire shield then you're fine. If you have allies who go before the bad guys or who went already, then the enemies are all dead.
Always face things level appropriate and don't play down in society play and you'll benefit from burning magic. Otherwise it does nothing.
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I doubt it is actually very optimal, but maybe shoot for Mystic Theurge as an Oracle of Flame 4/Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer 4/Mystic Theurge X. Draconic adds +1 to every die rolled when using your chosen element. Or you could also do the Elemental Bloodline, which would let you change all your spells into fire spells, and also more thematically appropriate to your character.
The Mystic Theurge route would give you a handful of more spells and some variety. My fiance played the above in PFS and found the cross over levels to not be as bad as the other 'prestige class that mixes two classes', such as Arcane Trickster.
Hey guys thank you for your suggestions. This character is not PFS so tell me about Divine Protection. I'll look into going for a mystical too. I have class right now but I will look into these in 2 hours when I get home a cover some other suggestions then. Thanks for your help.
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Divine Protection
Your deity protects you against deadly attacks.
Prerequisite(s): Cha 13, Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks, ability to cast 2nd-level divine spells; blessings, domains, or mystery class feature.
Benefit: You gain a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier on all saving throws. If your Charisma modifier is already applied as a bonus on all saving throw (such as from the divine grace class feature), you instead gain a +1 bonus on all saving throws.
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If the above is not AWESOME! I don't no what is!
Cha is your main caster stat, so you get extra love from this feat. It is a must have at level 5. All other feats are secondary to this.
Sweet jiminy. I'm taking that on my current Oracle!
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In my home game I get to use glorious heat as printed and that adds some excellent in-combat healing and buffs all in one gp just for doing what I do best. I don't abuse the feat by casting cantrips, but healing for 3-4 off a casting sun metal and then giving the weapons wielder a +1 to hit on top of that is just so much awesomeness.
Don't forget to purchase a wand of Selective Spell so you can burning hands or fireball everyone but your allies, even if your team is in melee. Excellent use of 3k gold.
Looks like Spirit Guide isn't so good for the double flame stack since I'd end up losing 3 revelations in exchange for one and some minor abilities, though it has some cool flavor too it. Maybe I should look into a Shaman on the off chance that I want one of those instead.
Duel Cursed looks interesting and could certainly prove useful for a full caster though, so I like that.
And I do not think I will be taking advantage of Mystical Theurge, since the combined spell ability does not seem terribly powerful for investing 8 levels and then going for a prestige on a 9th.
Selective Spell looks great, but what is the difference between a Wand and a Rod of selective spell? I'd rather avoid things with absolute charges if possible, though charges per day are ok. I hate wasting gold on consumables.
metamagic rods let you use a certain metamagic feat 3/day. The level of spell they can affect is limited, too. The smallest version goes up to 3rd level.
I like gnomes for the flame oracle since they can take the pyromaniac alternate racial trait. Increased caster level on all fire spells and higher effective level on flame revelations is pretty sharp. Gnomes can also take the favored class bonus that increases your effective level for your curse which can be really handy depending on which curse you take. With deaf, for example, you can have tremorsense 30 at level 10, and you can eliminate those pesky initiative penalties much earlier. They're slow and puny, but a CON and CHA bonus is solid for a caster who'll need to get close to cast flaming hands for the first few levels.
Oh, and literally being a "Pyromaniac" is awesome for a blaster.
Honestly forgot Divine Protection because my GM hit it with the ban hammer so fast I didn't get to finish reading it. If it's allowed, definitely pick it up!
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I like gnomes for the flame oracle since they can take the pyromaniac alternate racial trait. Increased caster level on all fire spells and higher effective level on flame revelations is pretty sharp. Gnomes can also take the favored class bonus that increases your effective level for your curse which can be really handy depending on which curse you take. With deaf, for example, you can have tremorsense 30 at level 10, and you can eliminate those pesky initiative penalties much earlier. They're slow and puny, but a CON and CHA bonus is solid for a caster...
Aww, I like you are too. :)
Oh, and literally being a "Pyromaniac" is awesome for a blaster.
Yup, it is!
Also, some of the spells from the blackened mystery take a while to get and having them a level earlier can really make a difference in how easy it is to play. Having Flaming Sphere at level 4 instead of 5 really makes a difference.
@ op, The rod of selective spell has three charges per day, every day. It ignores a certain amount of squares of an aoe spell equal to your casting stat modifier. This allows you to blast a fireball and selectively ignore your allies and hit the enemies. The feat itself requires ten ranks of spellcraft. That's why I suggested a rod. It will ease your burden a lot for many levels.
Do they still raise the level like a regular metamagic spell?
Sorry, just haven't ever gotten a chance to experiment with them before.
You want to read this page (or the equivalent on Paizo's PRD site or Archives of Nethys, but the one I linked is the one I know how to find quickest.
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An elemental metamagic rod and a selective metamagic rod will get you out of most jams.
If you are at all considering a level dip in sorcerer do a cross blooded orc/draconic for +2 per die and night vision at the small cost of light sensitivity. When you are throwing out 10d6 fireballs that does a good job of overcoming most resistances.
Have you read Worldwound Gambit? There is a character in there that my fire cleric is based off of, sounds like he is right up your alley.
In my opinion, the crossblooded dip is a steeper penalty than people give it credit for. It's extra damage, but it's also going to set you back a caster level which means you'll be getting spells 2 levels later than your cleric counterpart (no level 3 spells at character lvl 7, for example). This includes mystery spells, so no fireballs until level 7, and you'll be down a d6 on damage until level 11 since it's an oracle spell that won't benefit from the sorcerer dip. It is +20 damage at level 11 though.
Neat, Metamagic rods seem incredibly useful especially if I am going for a mostly fire-based build. Though picking up the feats at some point would probably be useful when the lesser rods are not as useful.