I really want to play a two handed shadow dancer, I think 4 levels is perfect, (lvl 5 and up the prestige offer little).
I read the guide , but disagree with the conclusions.
Paladins I can't play as the group has poor moral code,
And after load of thinking I think one of the following options is the best .
Am I right ?
And advice ?
Important *** not every thing is combat ! We rp a lot of combats as well. Skills mean something.
Path 1: cavalier , 3 archetype : emissary, beast rider, honor guard.
Order of the dragon or sword .
Path 2: thug rogue 3, lore warden 3 .
Analysis : lvl 9 cutover :
Path 1:
Full mount tiger ( boon companion), strong debugging shadow .
Character can spring attack or spirited charge .
Tiger learn grapple tree
Shadow scout and flank.
Bodyguard protect all around.
Aid another with skills of dragon is great .
Trait offer use magic device .
Ac learn sprig attack as well or nice mobility .
Path 2:
Thug add huge debuff to spring attacks .
Sneak damage .
Free and automatic sicken.
Blades of mercy trait will make great sword non leathal, for enforcer . So free shaken / sicken.
Lore warden add the feats and cmb . For improve grapple yamminess .
But no mount .
So- thought ?
Any class with sneak attacks combine well with shadowdancer. You dont need to get more than 3 lvl in the PrC though. All you want is hide in plain sight, darkvision and most importantly the Shadow.
The pet gives you a flanking partner so you can get sneak attack in most of the time unless the target is immune. The penalty you get when it dies is irrelevant because it is hard to kill and when in danger it can hide in floors/walls.
Thormind wrote: Any class with sneak attacks combine well with shadowdancer. You dont need to get more than 3 lvl in the PrC though. All you want is hide in plain sight, darkvision and most importantly the Shadow.
The pet gives you a flanking partner so you can get sneak attack in most of the time unless the target is immune. The penalty you get when it dies is irrelevant because it is hard to kill and when in danger it can hide in floors/walls.
I sometimes find full bab with shadow dancer to be better than sneak attackers. Especially for survival .
So - how about the cavavlir > SD idea ? A full mount and a full shadow ?
How about the thug lore warden ?
Any better path ?
Any comments on those ?
666bender wrote:
I sometimes find full bab with shadow dancer to be better than sneak attackers. Especially for survival .
Why? If you dont do sneak attacks why would you need to hide so much as to sacrifice lvl on a PrC? The pet is only useful to help flanking, especially as you advance in lvl. Shadow walking a few time per day can be done with equipment. You dont get full BAB. You get just a tiny bit of sneak dmg.
Thormind wrote: 666bender wrote:
I sometimes find full bab with shadow dancer to be better than sneak attackers. Especially for survival .
Why? If you dont do sneak attacks why would you need to hide so much as to sacrifice lvl on a PrC? The pet is only useful to help flanking, especially as you advance in lvl. Shadow walking a few time per day can be done with equipment. You dont get full BAB. You get just a tiny bit of sneak dmg.
Ah, here is where you fail to see the supreme. Ability of the prestige :
Hide in plain sight - of shadow dancer ( and assassin) only need a shadow- so there isn't a place you can't hide .
So - spring attack close , attack and vanish.
You can't really get defeated as stealth bonus is easier than perception bonus.
Add a shadow that can't miss , with ton of HP ( 50% when you get half damage )
That drain str / making a armored fighter a. Scarecrow that can't Move.
You can solo kill almost any fighter in the game .
If thug lore warden you also get good bab for grapple tree and strong debuff.
If a cavalier your tiger is stronger than any rogue ...
Add spirited charge with pounce tiger when you don't need to spring attack and you are one mean machine .
The q is which mechine runs better ?
Why do you think rogues are good ?
Swashbuckler is a great new lead in to shadow dancer. When we get Fencing Gracing eventually, an Inspired Blade 10/Shadow Dancer 10 might be a very likely and extremely powerful combo.
Slayer seems like it would make a nice entry into Shadow Dancer. In five levels you get a sprinkling of sneak attack, full BAB, a couple slayer talents (which if you're combat oriented you can use for two feats with ranger style talent and combat rogue trick), a good amount of skill points, and two studied targets at +2.
i have been falling in love with the slayer the more i keep looking at it personally lol, not much on sneak attack but awesome studied target to boost attack and damage, and such. as well as all cool ranger abilietes and rogue abilites, lol i plan on making a skinwalker slayer soon XD
The new classes are banned in our game for now, as there are some balance issues.
Thats unfortunate, the majority of the new classes are in fact weaker then their parent classes. Most Min-maxers wont even look at hybrid classes.
Some GMs are just like that. I have a friend who cries bloat with every new book that comes out. I know he's read the core cover to cover, but I doubt he's thoroughly investigated more than the APG, but he is absolutely insistent with each release that the new content is more powerful than and unbalanced in accordance with previous content.
It's not that , it's more that we are all, well, old .....;)
And as such- have little time - so - until we can make sure new class isn't a new combo punch, we Phorbit them.
Also - the existing classes provide enough I play around .
I also though of a third option for shadow dancer 4 levels .
Lvl 6 barbarian ( or 5 and 1 oracle)
This lead to a character with dr 3 , rage cycle for nifty rage powers .
And load of hp....
So , barbarian , cavalier or fighter&thug ? Which is the best among those ?
i'd actually say ranger (provided you've got some direction for your favored enemies, or go with freebooter or guide to circumvent that).
if you go cavalier, i'd say order of the sword so it has an immediate effect, since dragon's really bro-tier abilities come in late--later still with the SD 3 dip.
lame oracle 1 / urban+invulnerable rager barbarian 4 is powerful and can still use skills in rage. grab a headband of havoc.
you could alternatively go 2-handed fighter 5. stupendous damage output, and the only feat you NEED is power attack so the rest can be spent on the prereqs. once you hit 3rd level SD, you can take arcane strike for yet more damage (since you don't often use your swift action as a martial class who isnt named swashbuckler or monk).
rogue works decently (despite it's basic failings) once you get the shadow companion, since it gives you a fairly reliable flank-buddy to set up sneak attacks with. combine the shadow's STR damage with the crippling strike rogue talent and the pressure points ninja talent (with optional poisons), and you're a stat-debuffing fiend--provided you can keep your to-hit up.
(for fighter and rogue an incredibly helpful feat from the ACG is the steadfast resolve feat. it makes having a low will save not a death sentence at 9th+ level. ask your GM if he could at least allow that, even if he's banning the classes outright)
Personally I have always loved going Anti-Pally/Pally into Shadow Dancer. Instead of goign all "sneaky staby mc stab stab" tyep of guy, I abuse the DD ability of the SD to pop up behind the enemy martials next to the caster and lay waste to them...
In PFS, I have an Urban Barbarian 2 Weapon Master 3 that will take two levels of Shadowdancer followed by another five levels of Weapon Master.
The character is a half-orc who replaced darkvision with an extra skill point.
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