Sorry for the overly long title. Some professors at my college are hosting an unofficial PFS adventure path (I believe RotRL) that tries to stick as close to PFS as possible.
We will be going to level 17, and I'm going to assume there will be enough other "power gamers" where I can be somewhat weak the first few levels until I get the AC mount. I'd like to dual wield Falcatas to maximize the pounce ability (Opalescent White Pyramid + Wayfinder to add Weapon Focus would be worth the 10k imo) but dual wielding lances for the triple damage could be interesting. Assuming I have access to all these feats/abilities, would this character be PFS legal, and how would it work? Things such as to-hit while mounted, Spirited Charge + Falcata x3 crit = x4 or x5 crit total from adding multipliers, and how to go about utilizing the AC (especially on the pounce) are what I'm most hazy on. If it is legal, is there a way to improve it? I haven't made a druid or much of a barbarian before, so if anyone could help me figure out how the mount's damage plays into it I'd appreciate it. I might change to dual wielding Cutlass' and go for a pirate-y character theme with the Alluring trait if Falcatas are too expensive/not worth it. I want to be effective but don't need to be the absolute best.
Here's my character first:
Halfling Mounted Fury Barbarian, 20 Point Buy Starting Stats (Assume all levels put points into Str)
Str - 17-2 ___ Int - 7
Dex - 13+2 _ Wis - 13
Con - 15 ___ Cha - 8+2
Traits: Some scaling SLA trait, either Alluring or The Lantern Bearer to qualify for scaling Arcane Strike. Second trait undecided.
Feat/Rage Power Progression (1B = Barbarian 1, 1F = Fighter 1)
1B 1) EWP: Falcata
2B 2) RP: Raging Vitality
3B 3) Mounted Combat
4B 4) RP: Ferocious Mount
5B 5) Boon Companion (When Mounted Fury gets AC at Barb Level -4, so full AC immediately)
1F 6) Bonus: TWF
2F 7) Ride By Attack, Bonus: Spirited Charge
6B 8) RP: G. Ferocious Mount (7-9 retrain EWP -> TWF after getting ioun stone + Wayfinder)
7B 9) Risky Striker
8B 10) RP: Beast Totem
9B 11) Imp. Crit: Falcata
10B 12) RP: G. Beast Totem
11B 13) Arcane Strike
12B 14) RP: G. Ferocious Mount
13B 15) Double Slice or PA?
14B 16) ?
15B 17) Two Weapon Rend?
I'm shying away from Power Attack since I was already eating a -4/-4 from wanting to dual wield Falcatas (or Lances while mounted or Cutlass'). I was going to take Risky Striker no matter what so, between Arcane Strike and PA, Arcane strike wins because it gives half the bonus of PA to the main hand and the same bonus to the off hand without the negative to hit at the cost of a trait.
Here's how I'm viewing how everything works together:
At level 14 TWF with two +3 Impervious Furious Adamantine Falcatas (32k+3k+3k+18 * 2 = 76036 + 10500 = 86536 aka 46.78% of WBL so maybe +2, but for now let's roll with it to make the math simpler).
To hit bonuses when raging against a Large or larger creature = 14 BaB + 3 Enchantment + 2 Furious + 9 Str (15 + 3 level + 6 rage + 4 Phys. Perf. Belt) + 1 Weapon Focus - 4 TWF = 25. So 25/20/15 main hand 25/20 offhand. Damage bonus main hand = 9 Str + 3 enchantment + 2 Furious + 6 Risky Striker + 3 Arcane Strike = 23. Offhand is +18 since there would only be +4 Str bonus instead of +9.
Normal Full Attack: 25/20/15 1d6+23 25/20 1d6+18
Damage on a crit (x3): 3d6+69 / 3d6+54
When charging: 27/22/17 2d6+46 27/22 2d6+36
Damage on a crit (assuming x4?): 4d6+92 / 4d6+72
DPR vs. CR 14 (AC 29 avg.) Large+ Enemy: 218.7 With a +5 equivalent enchantment there's not much DR to worry about. But against DR5 DPR = 193.7, DR10 = 168.7, DR15 = 143.7. This is also before Haste or a Speed enchantment and before counting the dog or wolf animal companion that also has pounce through G. Ferocious Mount.
QUESTIONS
1) Is the above build legal for PFS (assuming I have access everything)?
2) Is the to-hit/damage/DPR calculated correctly?
3) Could I dual wield lances?
4) Any suggestions for improvements/last 3 levels to top off the build?
5a) If I were to convince a team member to use Reduce Person on me, could I still ride my mount? Or would the "appropriate mount" clause come into play?
5b) If I'm Tiny and using a reach weapon, I assume I have 5ft reach. Does that mean I could still charge/attack as normal with, say, a lance as a Tiny Halfling?
5c) If I'm Tiny from Reduce Person and I can ride my mount still, when facing a Medium creature would I get the +1 to hit from high ground?
Thanks for your help in advance!
Did I post too many questions/big of an OP that discouraged anyone from responding? And should this be moved to Advice?
Dimminsy wrote: Did I post too many questions/big of an OP that discouraged anyone from responding? And should this be moved to Advice? Hmm...maybe better in advice. Will see if I can flag it to be moved.
Your questions also require us to, well, screen every feat and ability for it's PFS-legalness...which is quite a lot.
I will not be commenting farther because I loath mounted builds for personal reasons (my first DM targetted my mount every time).
From the Additional Resources all the feats are legal for use, I'm more questioning how things interacting. I found the FAQ for the Spirited Charge damage only applying to the first attack. I didn't find whether the charge bonus to hit applied to all attacks though.
Dual wielding lances seems like it's possible. The description for lances sounds very similar to Jotungrip.
Lance wrote: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand. Jotungrip wrote: At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed melee weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like. Also from this lance FAQ you would get two-handed PA bonuses to damage and thus by induction have a 1.5x Strength multiplier on each as well.
From this lance FAQ I wouldn't get the Spirited Charge bonus multiplier after my first attack, so does that also mean I wouldn't get the +2 to hit on the later attacks as well?
The Mammoth Rider prestige class makes no mention of gaining the ability to ride "inappropriately sized" mounts and is legal for PFS. So does that mean that my Reduce Size'd Halfling could still ride his medium, or even large, mount?
I think u missed out taking RP:Lesser Beast Totem
Not sure what is wrong, but that DPR is low for a "power gamer" at level 17.
Jees dude, you're asking a hell of a lot of...someone!
Sorry but it isn't me. If you do get someone with the amount of system/rules mastery to fully answer all your issues I highly recommend buying them a very, very big cookie!
Good luck!
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Timid Toad
Sarrah wrote: Not sure what is wrong, but that DPR is low for a "power gamer" at level 17. Yeah, I had a straight Barby, around level 12 that I retired due to being stupidly OP compared to the rest of the party that was doing about 300 a round.
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Reckless Rat
Have you considered a gnome? Your statistics would be pretty much the same and there are several neat tricks.
Gnomes gain +1 against lizard or goblinoid creatures, and a +4 AC vs Giants, all of which are going to appear in this particular AP. I don't think that's a spoiler, because it's in the player's guide for Ranger's favored enemies.
If you want exotic weapons, you can trade what I just said for Master Tinker and build your own weapons. You can make Falcatas and Piston Mauls, and Ripsaw Glaives, and Nets and Bolas or whatever for some extra fun and to save on feats and money.
Also, since you gain spell like abilities, you can pick up Arcane Strike for extra damage. (the alternate racial ability Fell Magic can give you spell like abilities that work off of your wisdom.)
As for your weapons, I'd recommend Courageous instead of Impervious. +2 Courageous, Furious weapons are quite nice. +4 are better. The tiny thing with reach should work, but you might want to go and be Medium sized instead, as it would increase your strength, which would increase your damage. Going tiny I would suggest going with dual kukris and urban barbarian to jack up your Dex, then get +2 furious, agile, courageous kukris. Although that's pretty expensive stuff.
I haven't done the math, but dual-wielding falcatas may actually not be as good as dual-wielding Kukris. You have a difference of all your attacks being at a -2 compared to the light weapon and hitting more often would probably supersede the bonus you'd get through hitting less with a better crit modifier.
@Grijm, I accidentally put G. Ferocious Mount twice when I was editing my build. The first one should be L. Beast Totem.
@Sarrah, my goal wasn't to power game. My goal is to make a thematic character that's effective. His name in Pimon and his boar mount will be named Tumbaa. If I change him to a Gnome he'd be Pimon the Gnome which could be fun. Might make him just use a double weapon for early game getting x1.5 Str when I can only make a single attack when moving or charging (and to make the mental image even more odd).
@Beaky, since I made the first post I found that the feats/traits are legal. The questions that still remain are the Tiny questions, whether I get the +2 to hit from the charge on every attack during a pounce, and dual wielding lances. Also, my DPR was calculated at level 14 and did not include my Animal Companion or outside buffs such as Haste (which would benefit this build a lot more than a THW one because of so many attacks and the AC). Since then I have reworked the build a bit to be more effective at lower levels somewhat (I think).
Thanks for the responses!
EDIT: I didn't see your post for some reason,Oterisk! Since we're following PFS there's no crafting, but at level one I was going to dual wield short swords then at level 3 when I take EWP:Two-Bladed Sword I'll fluff it as "combining them" but still follow pricing rules. I am considering going Gnome as you have stated to save a trait since they have SLAs and for "Pimon the Gnome", but then I wouldn't qualify for Risky Striker which is one of the largeat damage boosts for my character (+8 to damage on every attack at level 12 for just -1 to AC). I was already planning on taking Arcane Strike. :) I thought Impervious was a flat cost to the weapon? Maybe I read the table wrong. But Furious weapons give a +2 enchantment when raging which makes it easier to hit and I don't have to worry about almost any DR (something that kills TWF builds). As I stated above I'm going for a theme, and to pull it off I'd need to be Small sized (Tiny would be even better!), so it's worth the tradeoff. It's also why I couldn't go Urban Barbarian because it can't be combined with Mounted Fury archetype. I don't want to be mounted and not have a scaling creature especially since they'll be "Tumbaa". Ya, the Falcata didn't play nice with DPR so I changed to Two-Bladed Sword (as of right now). I'll post my modified build later this evening.
As I understand it you cannot full attack after a mounted charge. Even pounce does not alleviate this as it is your mount charging, and the charge action states that you can make a single attack at the end of your mounts move.
I am fuzzy on the specifics (recently was a topic considering pummeling style and lances iirc), but the conclusion was that you cannot pummeling style/pounce mounted. I might be wrong though ;)
@Rambear, as per the FAQ I linked two posts ago,
FAQ wrote: Lance: If I have the pounce ability and I charge with a lance, do my iterative lance attacks get the lance's extra damage multiplier from charging?
No, it doesn’t makes sense that those iterative attacks gain the damage bonus. To make that second attack, you have to pull the lance back and stab forward again, and that stab doesn’t have the benefit of the charge’s momentum. (The Core Rulebook doesn’t state that you only get the damage multiplier on the first attack with a lance because when the Core Rulebook was published, there was no way for a PC to charge and get multiple attacks with a weapon in the same round, so that combination didn’t need to be addressed.)
Pouce is making your full attacks at the end of the charge. I might as well go ahead and post this FAQ as well,
FAQ wrote: Mounted Combat: When making a charge while mounted, which creature charges? The rider or the mount?
Both charge in unison, suffer the same penalty to AC, the gaining the same bonus to the attack rolls and following all other rules for the charge. The mounted combat rules are a little unclear on this. Replace the third paragraph under the "Combat while Mounted" section on page 202 with the following text. Note that a "mounted charge" is synonymous with a "charge while mounted," and that when a lance is "when used from the back of a charging mount" it is during a mounted charge not when only the mount charges.
A mounted charge is a charge made by you and your mount. During a mounted charge, you deal double damage with your first melee attack made with a lance or with any weapon if you have Spirited Charge (or a similar effect), or you deal triple damage with a lance and Spirited Charge.
This change will be reflected in future printings of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook
I'm trying to remove the two Fighter levels from my build so my AC stays my level, so I'm moving things around still.
Here's my updated build for anyone still reading! I still have no idea what to do after level 13.
Stats:
Halfling Mounted Fury Barbarian, PFS Starting Stats (all level up points into Str)
Str - 16-2 ___ Int - 7
Dex - 15+2 _ Wis - 12
Con - 15 ___ Cha - 8+2
I adjusted the stats so I could get an ioun stone of +2 Dex to qualify for GTWF so I wouldn't have to pay for a Str/Dex/Con belt and instead just a Str/Con belt.
Alternate Racial Traits:
Adaptable Luck: 3/day +2 to an ability/attack/save/skill check/roll or +1 if used after already rolled
Outrider: +2 to Handle Animal and Ride
Low Blow: +1 crit confirms against opponents larger than me
Traits:
The Lantern Bearer to qualify for Arcane Strike and Light's useful
Fate's Favored to combine with Adaptable Luck and the +1 Luck bonus to AC item (cool flavor too).
Feats/Rage Powers (All levels are barbarian levels)
1) TWF
2) Raging Vitality
3) Risky Striker (Buy a Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid for the double weapon Two-Bladed Sword)
4) Ferocious Mount (Buy a wand of Reduce Person and kindly ask a spell caster to cast it on you for +4 to all attacks from Risky Striker when facing medium creatures)
5) Boon Companion (Pay for a Combat Training-ed boar just before level up, put AC level 4 point into Int for more tricks and all feats)
6) L. Beast Totem
7) ITWF
8) Beast Totem
9) Arcane Strike
10) G. Beast Totem
11) Improved Critical
12) G. Ferocious Mount
13) GTWF
14) Extra Rage Rounds
15) Double Slice
16) Extra Rage Rounds
17) TWR
Until I gain pounce at level 10 I can 2 hand the double weapon on a charge for x1.5 Str damage. TWF will allow me to maximize the use of the pounce ability and Risky Striker. Don't really know what to do with the higher levels. Maybe continuous rage effects so they could apply to my AC or just extra rage rounds.
I'd like to add in a level of Oracle to be immune to fatigue by mid levels (the Lame curse won't do much when I'm mounted and I could use some wands without UMD which would be nice) but I don't know where to put it.
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