I gamed with the same group in HS and college. 10 years ago I moved away from that group. Since then I found the input for my games utterly gone; wringing it out of my players was like getting blood from rocks.
I think I've figured why. In HS I had classes with my gaming buddies every day. In college we all still went to the same parties and some of us rented a house together. After college we still went to movies together, attended each others' weddings, etc.
My current group in my new home state have barely spent more than a few hours together. The one guy I did know outside the games moved away. I notice that my GMing is getting more and more stale, like I'm running my game in a vaccuum. I think one of the contributing factors is not hanging out together.
How much do you hang out w/your gaming groups AWAY from playing at the table with them? Does this affect your game at all?
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Hmm I have had the exact opposite experience. I tried for years to game with my friends. We hang probably a few times a week on average. Work, School, play all sorts of occasions on top of gaming. None of them ever took the game seriously and it was always plan B next to any other reason to hang out. Games suffered both attendance and player buy in.
Fast forward from there I pretty much stopped gaming with my friends. I used PFS and meetup to find new gaming buddies. I now have two regular groups that meet often and are really engaged. Since gaming some of us have become pretty good friends. Though I'd say half of each group I only see during the game sessions.
Being a mixed bag of only at the table and outside the session I can say the important factor is commitment and playstyle matching. I am a firm believer in that you can lead a gamer to mt dew but you cant make them drink. By searching out my players I've ensured that it doesn't matter if we are only gaming buddies or all purpose friends.
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I game with my primary circle of friends. We socialize in all sorts of gaming (not just rpgs) and non-gaming situations, I definately think it affects our games. I look forward to seeing these people, and when we hang out away from the game, we often talk about recent sessions, and prod eachother about the next session of so and so's campaign, or so and so's character. Sort of creates a continuity of thought, so that games stay fresh in our minds.
I've tried gaming with friends. But since I moved away from my hometown, I've had to rely on randoms.
I generally ask for feedback, and I can understand the "like wringing water from a stone" comment. However, the people I play with (not as GM)tend to give a lot of feedback. It's really random.
I'm (nearly) constantly communicating with one group (text messaging, Skype, email, etc.) and the other group's GM is one of the previously mentioned players, so communication's fairly regular.
The first group is pretty relaxed and enjoys more roleplay, puzzles, mysteries, romance, and so on than back-to-back combat or dungeon-clearing. I don't think it's possible for the group (as a whole) to follow an AP or module as written; someone always finds an alternate objective that deviates the entire campaign goal.
As a result, keeping up with them is more like hanging out rather than a typical gaming night.
The other group is very straightforward and predictable, but are prone to sporadic instances of creativity. Their expectations are higher, regarding combat, and our GM has her work cut out for her in a very different way than I do with the first group. When she asks for feedback, the other players clam up until the next session and then go on and on about how they didn't like that last time and how they'd rather see this tonight. Consequently, it takes much longer to get started with this group.
She only spends time with these guys at work or during classes, so I'm not sure if that's improved things or only made them worse.
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I've pretty much met all my current friends through gaming. We talk over Skype for our games now because we all live in different cities or don't have cars and game with VTT. We hang out whenever we can but that seems to be about once ever 3-6 months because the stars must align for everyone to get a Saturday off. As for how it affects my GMing, I don't know I feel I'm always a stale GM and I'm pretty sure my friends are telling be they enjoy the game because a) they don't want to run or b) they're unwilling to learn the VTT software beyond making their macros.
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I'm fortunate. I had some gaming fridns in college that were all in the same major. Upon graduation, a couple of us ended up working in the same town. Over the years, a couple other friends from college have moved to town and the group has otherwise expanded through marriages and friends of the original gamers and so forth.
I have 7 players now.
-Skeld
PS: Derp. And to answer the question, all of us socialize outside of gaming to varying degrees on a weekly basis.
Maybe it's just me. I vibe off people. I tend to pick up the mood at the table and play to that. The same thing goes for the plot. I run all homebrewed stuff and currently my game is a giant megadungeon. I throw out a mission and the guys go off but if they zig where I figured they'd zag I just sort of wing it and hope for the best.
It sounds like it should be perfect but lately its just ended up tedious.
My players don't seem enthused to be at the table. As well we've been caught up with the current objective for a while and haven't gotten a lot of traction on the goal so I think they're bored. Now that the game's losing momentum I'm looking for ways to give it a shot in the arm.
But then when I ask for feedback, even in personal emails, I get no response and instead get comments like "hang in there, the game's fine." Well if it's fine, why are a couple of my players staring at their devices instead of the map?
I suppose I started this thread as I was reminiscing with a friend of mine. When I gamed with folks I saw outside the game we'd chat about stuff from the table. There were inside jokes; guys would trade build advice and just general impressions of each others' PCs. We all sustained our own desire to play THAT game, with each other, just by virtue of rehashing the shared experience of it.
Now I'm relying on 3 strangers to bring their own enthusiasm every couple weeks to the table. Further I'm looking to condense all the banter and frenzy from the weeks in between into a 20 minute sound byte that whips my players up enough to get them rolling. It just seems like more of a chore than a privelage. But as I said, maybe its just me...
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Couple things could be happening here Mark. Maybe you dont know them enough to push the right buttons to get thm into the game. Maybe your playstyles dont match and everyone is in a "bad game is better than no game" situation. Hard to say without actually seeing the game in action. How did your group come together?
I've been playing with some of these guys almost 30 years and we are all good friends, though I don't hang out much with most of them. Before kids and and such we used to organize big movie nights, but now we're doing good to even all get together anymore.
Having said that, we do have a big Christmas party every year, where all those who are able to make it do so. It's the big social event on all our calendars, and while there's no gaming that night, it's always a blast.
I keep up with everyone via telephone, email, and Facebook. I guess those media have cut into our face to face socializing. And Mark, I completely understand the "Hang in there, the game's fine" sorts of responses, if I get one at all. That aggravates me to no end.
It's a howling shame we don't live closer. I'd pay hard money to play in one of your games.
It is a shame that all of my best friends were at my gaming table... They all lived less than 7 blocks away, we'd game every day for a few hours each day.
Now the closest guy in my group is 7 miles round trip and we play a few hours once a weekend at best using a system where every class essentially has its own set of rules.
Pathfinder is tougher for me to DM than 2e since in order to come up with a random npc encounter that has any bite you really do need to have them rolled up in advance and also need a familiarity with appropriate builds of so many different classes otherwise they'll simply lack the commesurate 'punch'. But the more time you spend on the crunch the less time you have to make 'the awesome'.
Its not the game I remember but we try our best.
Pan: One player has decided to quit - him I knew through a mutual friend and board game nights. The others have all seen my recruitment threads and asked if I had open slots. I have only gamed with them (besides the guy leaving) a few times.
DM Cal: as always, thanks for the vote of confidence. I too try to keep up w/everyone via email and should use even more social media.
I mentioned a former player that moved away upthread. When he lived here he and I would carpool, we'd chat about stuff in and out of the games. I asked him about all this and his response was a fresh take on my game, a new perspective.
That's part and parcel to what I'm talking about. When I used to hang out w/my gaming buddies more often they'd suggest stuff like that. I love it when I can ask a friend "Is my game getting stale?" and he answers me honestly "maybe a little, but what if you tried something like this..." and we bounce some ideas around.
In my opinion I lack feedback and connection to my players. As a result there's no real connection to game.
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Thats too bad Mark. My initial response is that you need to let the game die and start from the grond up. Though there may be some more proactive steps you can take to revive the group and player engagment. My experience hasnt been to great though when it comes to changing playstyle which is why im being a bit negative here. Tell us more about why your one player quit and some about the remaining players and maybe we can offer you some ideas on how to improve your game.
The one player who quit the game said it was getting stale. When I asked for clarification he said he meant PF in general. He's running his own 5e game and is looking to play other systems. However he's also made comments to me in the past that my games tend to be overly wordy. He didn't like RP scenes at all and is famous for once having a dwarf PC that nearly died from standing around. The party came back from an adventure and had some downtime.
The PCs parted company in the town square and I asked what he was doing; he just shrugged. The other players gave a detailed account of interactions with friends, family and such but this player didn't give me anything. As a result his dwarf just stopped doing anything and stood in the middle of the square for 3 days. He was generally ignored after a while by the townsfolk, exposed to the elements and eventually collapsed from exhaustion.
Anyway, so now he's gone. My other players are used to APs, do a little PFS, and I think are generally expecting a 50/50 ratio of RP to combat. The campaign is a non-linear sandbox style with an emphasis on a megadungeon. Though I haven't gotten much specific feedback I have observed commentary from one player who is shocked whenever a foe of APL +3 or higher shows up.
Its a PF game but I'm trying to run it like a classic D&D megadungeon setting. If it helps with perspective I've taken a lot of inspiration from Frog God Games' products Rappan Athuk and now Lost City of Barakus. In other words there's a city (with adventures of its own), a wilderness area nearby with numerous smaller dungeons and entry points to the megadungeon, and then the megadungeon itself.
I wonder if the other players wouldn't be better served with a linear storyline. I don't enjoy railroading as a GM or a player, but maybe a little bit here would go a long way. The campaign has numerous plot hooks and such, but here's an observation I've made: these players are very passive.
I had another player in the game when it started but he moved. Before he left however he had 2 separate PCs. One was a paladin who knew that the city was using child labor and slaves in the slums as well as resources from the dungeon to maintain its decadence. He then determined that he was going to use missions to the dungeon as a means to the end of saving the children in the slums. His second PC was a mercenary who'd been sent into the dungeon by a dwarf guildmaster that the previous PC had confirmed was evil. The mercenary was left for dead and barely made it out alive. Now he's working to build up a crew of his own in order to exact revenge.
Both of those PCs were actively working toward something. The other characters in the game however have backgrounds but they are vague and not really plot-rich. As well none of the players really plays up any of the details. As a result I have no idea what the players or the characters are looking to achieve so I don't know how to provide it.
The PCs in the game are:
- NG male Halfling sorcerer (Faerie Dragon Bloodline) 2
- NG male human rogue 2
- NG male half-elf summoner (master summoner) 2
The Halfling is a cartographer who came from a small village and left behind a mentor (he never elaborates on said NPC and doesn't seem to care about them). The rogue is a dungeon delver who works for my homebrew version of the PF Society; he wants to find old stuff for the guild. The summoner hasn't really fleshed out his background yet; I don't even know what his eidolon is other than it's physical attacks.
If you need more detail just ask.
All my games are done via Skype and MapTool. That said, on non-game nights, that's still typically where you can find us. Of the eight players in my two groups, I'm regularly in a Skype call with three to five of them every night, depending on various scheduling issues.
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We hang out a lot.
I'm married to one of the players in my Rise of the Runelords group, so we see each other basically every day. The other members I see at least once a week outside of gaming, barring travel.
Even our open table Emerald Spire game has been mostly same folks, plus the boyfriend of one of our RotR players.
Gaming now is less... intense, I guess, then in high school or college, but mostly because we only play a given game once a week. Wheels within wheels style plots work great when you're plugging away at them every day, but I need something a bit simpler for weekly games.
Cheers!
Landon
Gaming now is less... intense, I guess, then in high school or college, but mostly because we only play a given game once a week. Wheels within wheels style plots work great when you're plugging away at them every day, but I need something a bit simpler for weekly games.
I guess I'm lucky in that the majority of my group does not mind long, complicated plots that contain a lot of that mystery and intrigue. Our Kingmaker game will be three years old next spring! Presuming we don't finish before then, which is a big maybe.
With the group i play with, only one is an old friend who i played with when i was a teen. He gives me rides to and from game and we talk about the game, our chars and other stuff on the ride. The others i meet in the past couple of years. Tho we get along well i don't do anything with them out of game because i cant drive and i live to far away to get rides (which really sucks because i want to do things with some of them). If my DM ask how his game is going i will gladly tell him. But i was playing a Druid in our last campaign and thru my background he added my parents who i had to save my mom which was part of the big plot hook. Plus i was married with 3 kids to a dragon and one of our players got to meet them all. So i like my DM's style right now.
If i asked for feedback on my game I'm running and no one replies or gives a vague answer i would get upset as well. I don't know how i would fix it but as far as player background go i would ask for them to flesh it out more and ask them to give you feedback on what they want to get out of the game from there backgrounds because your going to add some twists and hooks that deal with backgrounds and you need there help. If they cant do that much for you. I would start thinking of dropping the game.
I wish i lived close to you. I would love to play in your game. As is i only get to play once a month if I'm lucky right now.
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Well Mark I'd say the player who quit is a blessing in disguise. Sounds like he hit the self destruct button to get out of your campaign. Happens sometimes I wouldnt worry about it.
Its a PF game but I'm trying to run it like a classic D&D megadungeon setting.
That sounds very challenging but i'd assume if anyone could do it, Mark Hoover could. Though it seems like you are going to have to bring the game to the players. Thats not an unusual problem to encounter in my experience. I think a group really needs a lot of time and experience together to gel well. If I recall you meet infrequently thats probably going to remain a weakness for your group. You may just be a sandbox GM with an AP crowd.
I generally hang out with my gaming friend socially. It does as the OP said help get feedback and such.
My suggestions to the OP are:
1) Invite the people out to a movie once in a while.
2) Have a Bar-BQue and invite them.
3) Invite them to partys you are having.
4) Also just socialize with them before and/or after a game.
The PCs parted company in the town square and I asked what he was doing; he just shrugged. The other players gave a detailed account of interactions with friends, family and such but this player didn't give me anything. As a result his dwarf just stopped doing anything and stood in the middle of the square for 3 days. He was generally ignored after a while by the townsfolk, exposed to the elements and eventually collapsed from exhaustion.
Mark, you made my day. I know this guy was a problem for you, but I can't stop laughing. I just see him standing outside with pigeon poop on his head until he falls over in a heap.
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Its a PF game but I'm trying to run it like a classic D&D megadungeon setting. If it helps with perspective I've taken a lot of inspiration from Frog God Games' products Rappan Athuk and now Lost City of Barakus. In other words there's a city (with adventures of its own), a wilderness area nearby with numerous smaller dungeons and entry points to the megadungeon, and then the megadungeon itself.I wonder if the other players wouldn't be better served with a linear storyline. I don't enjoy railroading as a GM or a player, but maybe a little bit here would go a long way. The campaign has numerous plot hooks and such, but here's an observation I've made: these players are very passive.
Both of those PCs were actively working toward something. The other characters in the game however have backgrounds but they are vague and not really plot-rich. As well none of the players really plays up any of the details. As a result I have no idea what the players or the characters are looking to achieve so I don't know how to provide it.The PCs in the game are:
- NG male Halfling sorcerer (Faerie Dragon Bloodline) 2
- NG male human rogue 2
- NG male half-elf summoner (master summoner) 2The Halfling is a cartographer who came from a small village and left behind a mentor (he never elaborates on said NPC and doesn't seem to care about them). The rogue is a dungeon delver who works for my homebrew version of the PF Society; he wants to find old stuff for the guild. The summoner hasn't really fleshed out his background yet; I don't even know what his eidolon is other than it's physical attacks.
Hi Mark,
Just your Half-Elf master summoner here.I am sorry for not giving you a solid background by this point, but I have been trying. I was hoping to be able to draw some inspiration from the other players, plot, and my interaction. It was a bit stifling having someone who did not want any RP outside of dungeon running so it may get better from here. :) I didn't get too much to draw from the one night I played so far and as others have mentioned, meeting as infrequestly as we have has made it hard to develop much of a repore with the other players.
I have invested a lot of time into fleshing out several different backgrounds for my character after my first attempt at a background didn't jive because of the powerful family, which I am totally ok with.
Since then I have deleted pages of what ended seemed like stream of conciousness writing until I had something that felt like a good start. It still doesn't feel complete to me, but that is why I brought up you joining me on Trello as that is where I manage my ideas and it's a great platform for us to colaborate on fleshing out the background I partially settled on out of frustration.
I did appreciate you pulling the one fey blessing trait I did settle on into the story.
I'm pretty sure i told you before but just so it's out there. I have never played a mega-dungeon and I don't have any experience playing "classic d&d" (3.5 and pathfinder only) so I may be going too far away from your original vision.
I like having the open world available to explore. I also like being guided through some linear threads to allow me to organically grow my character through the choices I am forced to make. I look at it this way, in real life most people I know are not used to the opportunity of agreeing on big decisions with a group of aquaintences in a place we are still unfamiliar with. I thing that translates over to starting in a new open campaign with people you don't know very well. Until we have time to get to know the world, each other and see how the world around our characters works, it's difficult to know where to go and what to do and by extension to have the confidence in your decisions to ask other players to follow.
Ok this ended up very long.
TLDR:
I liked the one game I played, and the world you have created is an interesting one and I wouldn't mind exploring.
I am trying to give you a great background but I could use some help moving it past good.
I am inexperienced when it comes to mega-dungeons and classic d&d.
Putting our characters in a linear story line could be a good thing, until we get to know the world and each other better.
PS. My eidolon is a catlike stealthy quadruped named Smee.
I have no friends. I play over roll20 and skype with a few people, which some of them could be kinda-friends. But as for real life, I have none. Which makes me sad. Any friends from high school I had I have lost touch with, except for one and that is because he married my sister. But he is moved away about a 3 hour drive to the north of me, and hasn't expressed any interest in doing tabletop any longer now that he has a kid. *shrug*
I enjoy the bit of gaming I get to do over roll20+skype for the most part. I do wish I could do it face-to-face.
Hi Mark sorry to hear your having a few problems with your game.
I remember you talking about it on another thread and i thought it sounded like a great idea
Most of the guys i game with are old friends , and we hang out when we can ( which isn't often any more due to work and kids ) but we meet up at birthday parties and the like plus a load of us are going away for a mini games convention which is always a blast.
If you ever want to bounce any ideas about the pm me i love to talk about gaming and ideas for games
Can't wait for my boys to be old enough to play
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Not to hijack my own thread, but @ Troy: I don't need a great background, only a good one. When considering a new PC in a homebrew game with people you don't know, follow the KISS method.
In other words instead of detailing his whole life prior to the first adventure, consider key points. Help me understand in very simple terms
- why does he adventure?
- what's his most importatnt memory?
- what does he look like?
- how did he acquire power?
- does he have goals/ambitions?
Consider your guy
NG male human summoner (master summoner)2
Key features might be
- summoner was an outcast for consorting with extra-planar beings
- pursued forbidden lore; befriended eidolon
- first adventure was a solo exploration of a ruin; he found a site where the Prime and the Etherial met and barely escaped with his life
- he's tall, gaunt and bony; he often forgets to eat while researching
- His eidolon has helped him understand a handful of heretical planar tomes he constantly studies for power and research
- his dayjob is crafting leather goods; he intends to create bindings to solidify ethereal creatures who escaped into the prime for study and research before releasing them back into their home plane if he can
All of this might be summed up in a simple background:
Bob the Summoner hailed from a small village where he was shunned as an outcast. The son of a tanner he learned enough to pass as a journeyman and earn his keep as he wandered the lands. One night bob took refuge in a ruined tower where he heard the whispering of alien words. Instead of fleeing in fear he followed the voices and met his eidolon; a winged creature of otherworldly origin.
The poor creature was dying. Bob offered to help in any way he could and agreed to an arcane pact - in exchange for a bit of his own mortal life he would learn powerful planar spells and summoning. No sooner had they bound to one another though than another creature of the aether arrived. Bob and his new friend barely escaped with their lives.
Since then Bob's wanderings have brought him to many other sites of planar intersection. In such places he has found scrolls, tomes and other missives detailing the weird happenings. Through the aid of his eidolon Bob has begun deciphering the lore and making sense of it all to further his own studies. He is a tall, gaunt young man prone to absent mindedness; when lost in research he often forgets even to eat.
In several instances Bob has seen the ravages of planar creatures. He is convinced however that many, like the fey are trying to find a habitat close to their own alien worlds in which to settle. Unfortunately such adaptation is not possible in the Prime for these expatriates. Bob has therefore made it his mission to study and catalog these creatures while working to pacify and ultimately return them to their native planes. Of course not all such trespassers are merely confused wanderers; for villains of the planes Bob is prepared to deal out the ultimate penance.
Now the above is really flavorful and flowery, but yours doesn't have to be. It does several things though for me as a GM:
1. Bob has a family, even if they don't like him. What if they suddenly want/need him back home? PLOT HOOK!
2. Bob has already visited some small and preveiously explored adventure sites to obtain knowledge for his studies. What if the lore he's gathered points him to one that HASN'T been picked over yet? PLOT HOOK!
3. I know that bob is on a mission with specific goals. This can easily be broken up and translated into occasional adventures specific to him. PLOT HOOK!
Simple, direct, meaningful. That's all I'm looking for.
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Not to hijack my own thread, but @ Troy: I don't need a great background, only a good one. When considering a new PC in a homebrew game with people you don't know, follow the KISS method.
...
Here is what I had so far. I still need to determine his looks... I was too hung up on giving him lofty goals like finding out what happened 100s of years ago but I settled on more human goals that could turn towards loftier goals has the character evolves.
Let me know what you think. We should probably take this off line... Sorry about thread jacking.As A Child
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- The alchemist raised him as his own instead of allowing the child to become a ward of the city.
- When discovered that the child had natural arcane abilities he feared people may start asking questions so he sold his shop in the city and moved them to the countryside.
- When in the wood searching for alchemical ingredients, they saved a fey's llife and in return the fey creature told them of the strong fey blessing the boy has over him.
- The father pushed the boy hard to control his abilities.
- The father encouraged him to read texts to better understand humanity, himself, the land around them, and his powers.
- His father did not want the boy to leave but at 20 years of age his son struck out into to world discover his purpose, why he was blessed, and find out why he was orphaned.
On His Own
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- He struggled at first relying on his eidolon as companion and confidant.
- With his refusal to dismiss his eidolon for the sake of peoples comfort, the rune upon his forehead found him shunned by many.
- He settled in a small town where he met a girl who instead of fearing him, was drawn to his exotic look.
- The girl convinced him to cover his rune so he could work in her father's inn.
- With the rune hidden and him now working as a fresh faced bartender and liason, he found he had the gift of gab; settling disputes and calming wayward travelers.
- He found the first true test of his mettle by accident. His test came in the form of a middle-aged businessman from Dunspar. One night as Reficio made his rounds checking on the guests, he heard the girl scream for help. He rushed towards he shrill cries bursting into the businessman's room to find him pinning the girl to his bed. Without thinking, he rush to her aid, thrusting him onto the floor; giving the girl time to run from the room. The man charged at Reficio in a rage, pushing him against the wall with hands around his neck. Suddenly the man released his grip turning to look the other way giving Reficio a chance to run for the door. Turning to see his eidolon harassing as best it could, Reficio summoned vipers and dogs beside him while shouting; demanding the man stand down and his loyal creatures advanced on him. The man frightened at the sight stumbled backwards and fell to the floor. Reficio satisfied he had subdued the man turned toward the door to find the girl, her father, and a guard. He dismissed the creatures but it was too late, he was already faced with the steely gaze of the two men. Sharing a long glance with the girl as he pushed past the two men and seeing the girl held back by her father, he moved swiftly to gather his things. Before leaving for Ravenhurst, he had his Eidolon return to the girls room and deliver a note to the girl thanking her for her seeing past the mark he bore.
- Arriving in Ravenhurst he began searching for work where his talents would feel less like a curse, spending much of his free time in the woods outside the city practicing his magic.
Troy,
I'm PMing you to continue this.
The things that make you a good GM also leave you vulnerable to burnout and sensitivity. You said "I vibe off people. I tend to pick up the mood at the table and play to that."
This is really an awesome and rare trait to have as a GM, but it certainly has it's downside.
My advice is to move to Seattle, our table could use a good GM and we provide feedback free of charge.
-MD
Well I'm turning over a new leaf tonight. 2 new folks wanted to join my game. Rather than dumping them right in the middle of the table I'm going to meet them tonight for dinner. I've only traded emails with them and never met them/spoken w/them IRL before. I've also invited another new player from the existing group to meet us out as well.
Many folks on these boards have been kind and said I sound like a great GM. I can't help wondering though; if I'm such a great GM why have I lost as many players as I've kept? One guy left my current game telling me it was getting stale.
I suppose it's human nature to dwell on the bad stuff. I've had some really epic and engaged moments at my tables over the years. I try to be entertaining, clever and fun. I make a point to spend as much time as I can on my feet when I run, mimicing the movements of combat or RP; I attempt voices and mannerisms; I fiddle with adventures trying to personalize them to the PCs.
All of this being said its probably still, after 3 and a half decades of GMing, about a 50/50 toss-up whether my players will enjoy the game.
So all of that being said I'm gonna go have a sandwich with some folks. Maybe it helps them engage in the game. Maybe it makes me a better GM. Whatever the case, it can't ever hurt too much to go out with some interesting people and have a sandwich.
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Hoover, I've been wanting to chime in on this one for awhile but rl concerns have made it hard for me to sit down and post anything of real value or substance in the last week.
I'm going to throw my two cp in the ring - I think you're a good GM to great GM. Not having sat at your table I can't comment on exact GMing style but based on you and I bouncing ideas back and forth you seem to have a fantastic grasp of the creative process which is a big component of being a good GM (keeping the story interesting, rich immersive world and encounter background and overall creativity).
That all being said you can be the greatest GM in the world on the creative side but you could be lacking in other areas (that can be developed). In addition to Knowing the Game (system mastery) and being a Creative GM (overall imagination and immersion) there are two other major areas of concern:
- Game Management (c'mon, this could not be a "real" Hoover-Aux exchange without me using bullet points)
- Knowing your players/game expectations
Game Management is my MAJOR weakspot - I have excellent system mastery but since I: have my own houserules, make my own encounters to making my own GAME SYSTEM - many sessions are clunky. A mess.
I'm trying to run my Beta - Gamma World re-write as clean as possible, but with many sections of the system incomplete, rules not 100% organized (getting better at that) there is some down time in game. That is a GM SIN. Players become distracted, you loose focus and immersion at the session (the ultimate failure).
So I would say - is your Game Management down? Does it take you forever to set-up your game: maps, PC, music, minis, friendly chat time to the start of the game, distractions - eating, calls, etc?
How long from the start of the meeting does it take to get in game and in character?
How much time in game do you take looking up rules or deciding on a ruling?
Does your level of preparedness ever slow down the action of the game?
Knowing your players: how well do you know them? And I mean "know them" I'm not talking buddy-buddy HS or Collage chums - how well do you know them?
Do you know their favorite genre? Fantasy, Sci-fi (action, hard science, serial/episodic (Star Trek/Firefly, et al), horror (alien), Modern, Espionage, Horror - Full game (action horror, modern, psychological, etc).
Do you know what their favorite game style? Old school, new school, mmo background to tabletop, wargarmer, technical, high drama/intrigue
Favorite movies and tv shows? Favorite video games? Favorite books?
And ask them (directly or indirectly) - why?
I have been blessed with regular (if not small) group of guys to play with and we are all friends outside of the game. We don't get to see each other outside of gaming as much as we like, but I can say that we are solid.
Min/Maxing and system mastery
RPG Inspiration: Fantasy Novels over movies or shows
High heroics
Downtime RP - he will follow up on leads if they are out there.
Loves combat
Another player (his brother):
The charisma game (uses whatever means - force or guile- to beat objective)
RPG Inspiration: Modern movies and TV shows.
The market player (loves downtime RP, buying and selling gear/loot and handling financial concerns of the group).
Will follow up on leads if he thinks the leads have a strong chance of payoff
Loves combat - will avoid pointless combats if possible.
Another player:
Hard time immersing himself in his character (1st person)
RPG Inspiration: RL History/Military buff. Some ancient Military history, comic books.
Comes up with wacky theories and angles (and is sometimes right, which baffles me)
Plays it a bit more reserved and survival/preservation focused - but knows when to lay it on the line.
Focuses on small things - small obscure leads/lore to small bits of equipment/gear
When it serves him - has an exacting memory for detail
Last player (in current group)
High heroics but very practical
RPG Inspiration: RL History (Ancient/classical), Lit (classical), 80's sci-fi and horror (not the cheesy stuff). Excalibur over Lord of the Rings
Grim/gallows humor
Believes more in character story and type vs. "build"
Will go down in a blaze of glory, if in fact it is glory.
Avoids pointless conflict - but when engaged is ruthless
We have similar backgrounds (due to our age) but we have wildly different tastes in: music, sports, modern movies and hobbies.
What I try to do is I try to figure out - even going so far as to ask them:
What did you like about the game/last session?
What didn't you like? (for my group it's delays, prep time and starting the game on time - they just want to play)
What would you like more of in the game?
Less?
My advice in all of this/TL:DR - know your players and know yourself. You can have the game you want (ex: old-school dungeon crawl) but it should be modified to fit your group: RP parts for the drama player, fast combat for players focused on bashing things (blowing off steam), investigation for the fan of that style, etc.
Your adventures and how you run them should not be a one-size fits all approach but more of a - I want to run my adventure "this way", but what about the parts for Mike, Tim and Andy? What are they going to like?
You are a good GM Hoover, I can tell just by our past exchanges that you have the skill and chops. When a player leaves or you are in-between groups it can be a confidence shaker - on top of the fact that finding good players/GMs groups can be difficult depending on where you live. Never give up and never stop improving your trade - every GM/DM has room for improvement and growth.
Given the way my primary group is we hang out as a significant portion of the entire group rarely but talk almost constantly...
Hoover, you are a good gm based on everything I have seen. Heck you make me look and feel like a noob. I think in your case it simply is your play styles didn't match up.
Auxmalous makes some very good points. I really can't think how I could have said anything better.
And like him, Game Management, even after all these years, is still my weak point.
I live with three of the people who are in my gaming group and we hang out with the others (including the DM) on a regular basis. The only time I really play with people I don't know is during a Convention. Usually, I have one of my housemates in the game as well. This year one of them is Co-DMing with me and one is playing the first game (it's a two part game but doesn't need the same players playing the PCs) although she'll probably miss the second part due to conflicting game schedules.
I did used to play with a group that I did not hang out with on a regular basis. My first group was with an Unknown DM and a very good friend of mine, but for a few years (after he moved away) it was this DM and some other folks we kind of picked up along the way, but we all got along famously and had a lot in common, so we sort of meshed.
I tend not to play in games with people I don't mesh with, but those are few and far between. I'm generally pretty laid back and easy to get along with.
Do your players have things in common? Do they all play the same MMORPG or PC or Console game? Do they all play board games? Do they all like the same movies? If you can find a common ground with them, it sometimes helps you connect.
Also, it's not just up to you to make the game go. It's up to the players to give you input and if they are not giving input and you are asking for it (as you appear to be) then they are not holding up their end of the game.