Goblin Squad Member
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So Goblinworks has a plan (or "have a plan" if you're that kind of person) for how the next several weeks of development are going to go. While they're busy with that, I thought we could take a little time to look farther down the road.
I thought it might be useful to provide GW with some community feedback on what our priorities are and what we'd like to see coming next, once they get a chance to take a breath from the EE release crunch. Maybe they have a timeline for all of this already, but if there's a strong community response on a particular feature perhaps they could consider sorting that effort closer to the front of the queue.
Please visit this SurveyMonkey page and sort the features listed by your own preferred order of implementation.
Survey results are viewable here.
Filled it out. That's a great poll mechanic. Very easy to use. I've used Survey Monkey before and found them to have the best free polls out of what I tried.
Are we assuming then, that things like full banking, PvP looting, etc. will be in at launch?
(Also, it's "has". You were correct. Goblinworks is a singular entity. It'd only be "have" if it were multiple entities. It'd be "have" if you'd written "the Goblinworks developers have a plan".)
Finally, I'm not sure if here's the best place to put it, or if I should start a new thread, but I had an idea on races. For players who want to play something other than Humans, Dwarves, or Elves, rather than have them start a character and then have to re-roll, I offer the suggestion of having Goblinworks create stats for the additional races, and make them select-able, but use an existing model as a placeholder for that race until it's own model (with armor and animations) can be added to the game. Halflings could look like Dwarves for now, Half Elves could just look like Elves, and eventually the correct model could replace it and one day, the character would suddenly have the correct look.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nice compilation of to be implemented features, Guurzak. Will definately put my votes in. I am sure there are timelines for some of these that we can not change much, but tbh this comes closer to the Crowdforging that I had in mind then dreaming up your ideal MMO on Ideascale. :) Though I will admit that once alpha had started, there were lots of solid and realistic suggestions there.
Very curious what the outcome will be of this vote.
Guurzak, can you please post the link to the survey results? There's a way to create a link to just the results (not to the "review results" area within your account) that I've used when using Survey Monkey for some other polls.
Can we see intermediate results? Or any results? :) Should I sign up there?
Signing up there won't help anything as the accounts are not linked. Survey creators can create a link that can then be shared to see intermediate results.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For many of us, Classes and Races are the most important game systems. After character creation and development everything else is secondary.
Indeed. I'm very pleased to see a strong showing for character development! And just as an update, adding barbarian, bard, paladin and sorceror has moved into third place.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I balanced what I felt was doable in a short timeframe and what I really feel the game needs (and what I want). I want to see all those extra classes/races, but that takes a lot of time to code and add. I really really think we *need* the ability to set laws over territory we control, as that is a fairly unique feature of Pathfinder Online and a good selling point, and so that has to take priority.
Agree on the laws aspect. Also, I voted for the classes and races not because I think they're critical for the game, but they are critical for player interest. People who want to play one of those classes will not be as engaged spending EXP on abilities that aren't always towards their chosen path while they wait for that path to be available. I think I read somewhere that people who chose one of the initial races can switch when those races are released. That's a nice feature that helps alleviate that situation some.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think I read somewhere that people who chose one of the initial races can switch when those races are released.
The official word (most recently) is that you can switch once to a core race that is not in at start. I believe the same (once caveat, and for core only) is true of classes.
Thanks for posting the survey results Guurzak. Unfortunately, Survey Monkey won't sort them in the share-able view like it does in the internal analysis tools. It's something I wish they'd add to the share-able view.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The official word (most recently) is that you can switch once to a core race that is not in at start. I believe the same (once caveat, and for core only) is true of classes.
No, a class respec is much less certain, and they've explicitly said at least once that it will definitely not be an option although they've said at others times that it is possible but not likely.
You can bank your XP for later training. You can't bank your race.
I think I read somewhere that people who chose one of the initial races can switch when those races are released.The official word (most recently) is that you can switch once to a core race that is not in at start. I believe the same (once caveat, and for core only) is true of classes.
Yes, I understood this to be a 1-time thing. What is a "core" race vs. non-core race?
Also, can't we just level a class that is in game and then start leveling the new class when it's introduced? Yeah, we'd lose that experience, but unless I misread the jumble of blog-postings on this, I thought it was possible to level anything, but can only have one class active at a time. Is this correct, or am I mistaken on this?
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Goblin Squad Member
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What is a "core" race vs. non-core race?
They're the Races from the Core Rulebook for PFRGP.
Also, can't we just level a class that is in game and then start leveling the new class when it's introduced? Yeah, we'd lose that experience, but unless I misread the jumble of blog-postings on this, I thought it was possible to level anything, but can only have one class active at a time. Is this correct, or am I mistaken on this?
You are correct. Also, Ryan has pretty much ruled out any kind of class respec, except for exceptional circumstances.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You're not "leveling" classes. You take the training you want, and along the way that may get you levels in certain roles. Two characters that are identical except for a single skill that pushes one to 4th level wizard instead of3rd level are not different in any mechanical way except for that skill. (I think)
What is a "core" race vs. non-core race?Core races, in the context of Pathfinder, are humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, half-orcs, halflings, and half-elves.
I didn't realize there we plans to introduce any non-core races later, which is why I was confused. The announced races have always been just those core races (as far as I've seen). So, anyone starting at EE can switch to gnome, half-orc, halfling, or half-elf when those races are released. I guess if they decide to add something else later then you have to start that character from scratch.
@ Caldaethe & Nihimon Thank you for the clarification. I mispoke when I said "classes" there. I meant to say abilities from one set of skills. I'm assuming that certain abilities of these other classes won't exist at launch? Also, if, say, a 3rd level fighter also has the reqs to meet a 2nd level ranger, can you just switch "classes" once the ranger is introduced and start training the newly introduced ranger abilities from that point?
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Goblin Squad Member
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In general, don't expect to be able to have any XP refunded so you can spend it on something else.
And yes, it's very likely that the new Roles (Classes) will have requirements that match Feats you can purchase before that Role is released. But don't expect Goblinworks to commit to what those will be.
There's no limit on how many feats you can train, correct? Just how many you can slot, right? If so, then, yes, you may train somethings you won't use later, but you're not ever locking yourself into a path, which is very nice.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There's no limit on how many feats you can train, correct? Just how many you can slot, right? If so, then, yes, you may train somethings you won't use later, but you're not ever locking yourself into a path, which is very nice.
Yep. And at the moment, having equipment that will let you use your feats is the biggest bottleneck of all.
Thanks for the information all. I'll stop de-railing Guurzak's very helpful thread, although it is keeping it bumped, which is hopefully getting it seen and getting more responses filled in!
You know, thinking about it, I have to say I think the new races and "classes" really are secondary. I'd love to have a ranger- even without the animal companion- but this game is built on human interactions. So it makes sense for GW to focus more on those even if we, the players, are more interested in the extra classes.
Also, not all of playing a ranger or a bard is in the class abilities. All of these classes also have their own RP component to them. Right now, I can play a ranger simply by playing *like* a ranger. Sure, its not quite the same; but it will do for a year while the game takes shape!
I posted this Survey to the Alpha Guide, as well as to the CotP forums, hopefully we can get a couple hundred votes.
Guurzak and I and going to put together a more robust and informative survey, so please hold off on getting folks to put time into this one. ETA Saturday or Sunday.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought it might be useful to provide GW with some community feedback on what our priorities are and what we'd like to see coming next, once they get a chance to take a breath from the EE release crunch.
Problem is that, while we might have a desire-based priority preference, many of those features will depend practically upon others. Those other features will have to be in the game before their components can be used for features we may desire more.
You might very much like a crystal chandelier, but you must have a ceiling from which to dangle it, and walls to support the ceiling, and a foundation, hopefully with a floor, to support those walls. I think a nice throw would look nice in the entry as well. Oh, and while you are moving the couch...
The survey results seem to me completely out of order.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If your point is that we should not presume to dictate feature development order, I would respond that no such presumption is taking place. If your point is that it is not useful to provide community preference data to Goblinworks so that they have more information to draw on when planning the feature development order, I would disagree.
We the players don't know the plan and don't know the dependencies. GW does. It's up to them to decide when and whether a community preference should impact the planned timeline, but I don't think it's safe to simply assume that that answer is "never". Telling them how we feel cannot make anything worse, and may help them make things better.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Guurzak: No, my point was that the order we as a community prefer currently appears unworkable, and we should expect the developer may take our wishes into consideration but express those items in different order. What might be a more useful way of looking at it is how important we feel each is, that those we most desire should be more completely fleshed-out than those we care less about. There are other ways such a poll can be useful for development purposes. This doesn't, I think, minimize the average of our shared preferences but considers that practicality matters differently from sentiment or desire.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There has been 59 Surveys taken, and:
Rank/Feature/Weighted Value/(Number of people who ranked in their top 5)/<Number of people who ranked in their bottom 5>
1. Legal System and Criminal Flagging - 15.08 (31)<2>
2. Sorcerer, Barbarian, Paladin, Bard - 14.17 (30)<7>
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3. Feuds at Company Level - 13.68 (26)<6>
4. NPC Factions - 13.17 (16)<5>
5. Caravans/Merchant Career Support - 12.92 (24)<10>
6. The Remaining Core Races - 12.83 (26)<6>
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7. Monk, Druid, Ranger - 12.48 (28)<13>
8. Wars at Settlement Level - 11.85 (16)<7>
9. Formation System - 11.59 (12)<4>
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10. Stand and Deliver (SAD) Mechanic - 11.15 (16)<12>
11. Bounty Hunter Mechanic - 10.58 (9)<6>
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12. Siege System - 10.08 (4)<9>
13. The Remaining Core Deities - 9.27 (15)<20>
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14. Hideouts - 8.71 (6)<15>
15. Static Dungeons (Like Emerald Spire) - 8.63 (9)<25>
16. Single Use/Mobile Dungeons - 8.27 (9)<29>
17. Assassination System - 8.19 (6)<13>
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18. Spellcrafting as standalone process - 6.85 (6)<30>
19. Additional Deities Beyond the Core Options - 5.59 (3)<38>
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20. Additional Races Beyond Core Options - 5.10 (3)<37>
In this weighted system a deviation of 1 point is pretty significant, so I the above is separated out even further by a 1 point difference. With this in mind looking at the above we can glean some information.
Having set laws and more roles are extremely important, across the board, these features are mid to high priority for almost everyone.
Feuds, Factions, Caravans/Roles, Races are in the next section, all very important, most find them to be mid to high priority. I would like to point out that Factions are very much a mid-high priority for most, enough so that it actually got pushed up the list.
More Roles, Wars, and Formations round out our top 9. This is where things get a bit interesting, as these three Roles have a lot of Support for top Priority, but a decent amount as low priority, dragging it down the list a good bit. Wars and Formations both have a lot of mid/moderate support for priority.
Now, what can we say about our top 9 list? People seems to want to be able to do 2 things, PvP and Character creation. Pretty much everything in the top 9 are related to one of these two things, while the very top ranked feeds into PvP it also lends itself to settlement security.
Coming out of the top 9, at number 10, we have something else interesting, SAD Mechanic. SAD Mechanic has support very evenly distributed from 1(Top Priority) to 20(Lowest Priority), so much so that it brings its priority to a very mid point. While it directly feeds into PvP, its moving towards the Fringe of PvP Mechanics that a majority want to see. Bounty hunters is very similar to SAD, but it has a lot more middling support, and a lot less polarized support. Again, a PvP Mechanic.
Coming out of the middle into the lower end.....
The Siege system, again PvP/Settlement Warfare, has very solid mid/moderate support, but adding the remaining core deities is VERY polarized between high priority and low. This is maybe where we see a difference between RPers and Non-RPers.
Now, Hideouts and Assassination seems to have some mid support, but almost all on the low end, while Static/Mobile Dungeons, Spellcrafting, and additional deities and races are very very low on most peoples lists of priorities.
This seems to say to me that there is a sweet spot between too much and too little PvP mechanics, as well as Character options for creating/specializing their characters. Furthermore, it looks like PvE is very low priority for most people.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well I'm happy to see the Legal System is top of the charts atm.
However, I'd IMPLORE! :) people to vote for Caravans next. The Legal System is highly necessary to create status information between players and groups of players: Such information is rich for gameplay. But also just behind that is moving heavy goods is also rich in gameplay due to it's information impact on the economy and if it needs hauling via caravans that is a major economic trade requirements if it cannot be moved so easily without such "heavy-lifting" major operations to move. It should make economies more localized due to such severe limitations of movement of such goods and time to do so and exposure as high exposure target for aggressors further increasing the importance of this feature to the game for economy and pvp and organization.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well I'm happy to see the Legal System is top of the charts atm.
However, I'd IMPLORE! :) people to vote for Caravans next. The Legal System is highly necessary to create status information between players and groups of players: Such information is rich for gameplay. But also just behind that is moving heavy goods is also rich in gameplay due to it's information impact on the economy and if it needs hauling via caravans that is a major economic trade requirements if it cannot be moved so easily without such "heavy-lifting" major operations to move. It should make economies more localized due to such severe limitations of movement of such goods and time to do so and exposure as high exposure target for aggressors further increasing the importance of this feature to the game for economy and pvp and organization.
From what Bob Settles (GW PvE designer)was saying in Gobbocast #18, those caravans will eventually attract not only Player bandits but Mob bandits... and rest of the escalatory neighborhood! If the caravan must go overland to a road, or in places even on a road, the mobs will make defense a challenge.
Thanks Guurzak!