Hex Channeler


Pathfinder Society

Shadow Lodge

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The Hex Channeler Witch Archetype is currently not legal for PFS, and I am not sure that I understand why, so I am going to present an argument in an attempt to get the archetype legalized.

First of all, let's start with what the Hex Channeler is, so that those who do not have access to the Advanced Class Guide can follow along. The Hex Channeler is a Witch Archetype that replaces the Witch's second level hex with the ability to channel positive or negative energy as a cleric of the same level (starting at second level) except it only does 1d6 positive or negative energy. In order to increase the number of dice rolled the witch must sacrifice additional hexes, and the witch can sacrifice as many or as few hexes as they like when they would learn a new hex, each hex sacrificed gives 1d6 additional.

There are two reasons that I can see why this would not be legal, the first is simply because the Hex Channeler witch as written can sacrifice their feat slots in addition to their Hexes by taking Extra Hex in order to add an additional 1d6 to their channel. The second reason I can see to make the archetype not legal would be that it is an arcane caster with channeling, for this issue, please note that Arcane Healer a bard with channel energy, is legal in PFS. The first issue therefore is likely the reason why the archetype is not legal in PFS.

Assuming that the Hex Channeler is not legal from a power standpoint rather then a flavor standpoint, then the issue is likely that a Hex Channeler that sacrifices everything to channeling can channel more powerful then a Cleric. Note that a Life Oracle can already channel as a cleric times and a half their own level if they are Elven, Aasimar, Sylph or Ifrit (there may be more), but the Hex Channeler that sacrifices everything can indeed channel stronger then an Oracle of Life. So let's take a look specifically at level 12 characters in PFS, as that is typically the highest that PFS play goes outside of sanctioned modules.

At level 12, a cleric channels for 6d6 with a DC of 16+Cha Mod 3+Cha Mod times per day. The cleric can channel positive or negative energy depending on their deity and alignment. Similarly, at level 12 an Elven Oracle of Life that puts all Favored Class Bonuses into channeling can channel for 9d6 with a DC of 19+Cha Mod 1+Cha Mod times per day and can only channel positive energy. A Hex Channeler witch could potentially channel for 11d6 with a DC of 16+Cha Mod 3+Cha Mod times per day at level 12, or even higher up to 14d6 if they use retraining to change everything about themselves to only be able to channel and not much else, this is an extreme case character who spends everything on channel dice and while it could tear up undead if channeling positive energy or living by channeling negative energy, it has no effects on constructs and extremely limited effects on the other side of the spectrum.

When the issue of the Aasimar/Elf Oracle of Life channeling better then the cleric came up, it was looked at, however the Aasimar/Elf favored class bonus was only altered for how it effected animal companions from revelations, not channeling (source) so it is acceptable for an Oracle to channel more powerfully then a Cleric, even with higher DCs though the Oracle doesn't have the option of channeling negative energy, so that may be a balancing factor. The Hex Channeler can channel Positive or Negative Energy depending on alignment, or if neutral their own choice, the witch would also not qualify for Versatile Channel feat unlike a cleric and thus would only ever have the option of channeling one type of energy.

So, how can the archetype be made legal if it's too powerful to channel for so many dice? Simple, restrict what the Hex Channeler can sacrifice for it's channeling dice. There are two possible solutions here, firstly the Hex Channeler could be restricted to only using class granted hexes to increase their channeling ability, this would restrict the power of the Hex Channeler to a level below the cleric. The second option is to restrict the Hex Channeler from gaining more channel dice then 1/2 (or 3/4ths) their level, this would restrict them to being only as powerful as a cleric or one level behind (or as powerful as an Elven Oracle of life if 3/4ths is used), assuming that this was spelled out in the additional resources entry for the Advanced Class guide, it would be fairly easy to control.

I think that's all I have to say on the manner for now.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Someone pointed this out to me. Take the extra hex feat and you can get quite a bit of channeling. Picture this.

They get channel at what.. level 2? Okay. Level 2 1d6, lvl 3 2d6, lvl 4 3d6, lvl 5 4d6, lvl 6 5d6, lvl 7 6d6, lvl 8 7d6, lvl 9 8d6, lvl 10 9d6, lvl 11 10d6 etc etc capping out at level 20 with a whopping 19d6. which is on average 76 aoe damage to everything or 76 healing to everything once a round.

In PFS it would be 10d6 which would be ~ 40 on average damage/healing at max.

Shadow Lodge 2/5

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

seems like an easy balance would be to say "Hex Channeler archetype can only replace hexes gained from her class features for the purposes of channel energy and not hexes gained from any other source"

4/5 ****

Whenever possible PFS does not change existing rules regarding class features, they just cgoose which bits to allow.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

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Well if you're a human, and retrain your level 1 feats... that gives you.
1,1,3,5,7,9,11 -- 7 Extra Hex > Increase Channeling
2,4,6,8,10 -- 5 Normal Channeling Advance
12d6 damaging Channels, ups to 14d6 with the headband, down to 13d6 with Quick Channel instead of an Extra Hex slot.

Also you channel for 5d6 at level 4, which is pretty crazy.

And since a hex channeler can channel through their familiar, I envision the following. A negative channeling witch just throws their hedgehog at people for 26d6 a round.

Don't know if it's overpowered, but it's probably animal abuse.

I'm sadder that dust knuckles aren't allowed, but a DC 20 blind for 25 gp is probably a little under priced.

4/5

Somebody call PETA

Shadow Lodge

Walter Sheppard wrote:

And since a hex channeler can channel through their familiar, I envision the following. A negative channeling witch just throws their hedgehog at people for 26d6 a round.

Don't know if it's overpowered, but it's probably animal abuse.

The ability is written pretty badly, I couldn't even tell at first that they could channel centered on their familiar, because it only says that they can in the first sentence before it starts talking about how the ability actually works.

That being said, being able to channel 26d6 negative energy in a single round is pretty extreme, but would be useless against constructs and undead. Of course the witch would still have their spells to deal with them, to some extent.

Pirate Rob wrote:
Whenever possible PFS does not change existing rules regarding class features, they just cgoose which bits to allow.

Yet when Aasimar/Elf Oracles started causing trouble with their Favored Class bonus it was changed rather then completely disallowed.

Shadow Lodge

I want to mention that upon further examination of the Advanced Class Guide, it is possible to get a Wizard who can channel positive energy, and such a wizard is legal in PFS.

The Spirit Whisperer wizard archetype gives the wizard a spirit and then gives them access to that spirits spirit ability at first level, and the spirit of life's spirit ability is channel positive energy 1+Cha mod times per day.

It's sad when a wizard can be a better healer then a witch simply because of available archetypes.

Scarab Sages

I will be honest, the cleric has always had weird competition, though to find out that they have to compete with even the Wizard for party healer makes me laugh a lot. I'm also amused what other archetypes sneaked in with the recent batches.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Dylos wrote:

I want to mention that upon further examination of the Advanced Class Guide, it is possible to get a Wizard who can channel positive energy, and such a wizard is legal in PFS.

The Spirit Whisperer wizard archetype gives the wizard a spirit and then gives them access to that spirits spirit ability at first level, and the spirit of life's spirit ability is channel positive energy 1+Cha mod times per day.

It's sad when a wizard can be a better healer then a witch simply because of available archetypes.

Better healer? When the typical wizard, unless built a bit differently than most, would get -1 channels per day?

Better question: How do the channel dice scale with level, and is there any way, like the hex channeler has, to more than double the normal dice available for a cleric of the same level?

Shadow Lodge

Also keep in mind that a neutral hex channeler can opt to channel negative energy. It's one thing to throw around ridiculous amounts of healing, but the amount of damage this can dish out to everything within thirty feet is insane.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

I could be dead wrong, but this archetype seems a little weak to me, especially considering, what other archetypes are doing to PFS scenarios.

Selective Channeling seems to be a mandatory feat here.

A hex you haven't taken, could be slumber, of evil eye, or misfortune... so yeah, I am not that worried about the this kind of witch dealing damage, and in combat healing should be avoided anyway.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

kinevon wrote:
Dylos wrote:

I want to mention that upon further examination of the Advanced Class Guide, it is possible to get a Wizard who can channel positive energy, and such a wizard is legal in PFS.

The Spirit Whisperer wizard archetype gives the wizard a spirit and then gives them access to that spirits spirit ability at first level, and the spirit of life's spirit ability is channel positive energy 1+Cha mod times per day.

It's sad when a wizard can be a better healer then a witch simply because of available archetypes.

Better healer? When the typical wizard, unless built a bit differently than most, would get -1 channels per day

Correction: they get 1+INT channels. They lose specialty school and must take a familiar.

Shadow Lodge

Sammy T wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Dylos wrote:

I want to mention that upon further examination of the Advanced Class Guide, it is possible to get a Wizard who can channel positive energy, and such a wizard is legal in PFS.

The Spirit Whisperer wizard archetype gives the wizard a spirit and then gives them access to that spirits spirit ability at first level, and the spirit of life's spirit ability is channel positive energy 1+Cha mod times per day.

It's sad when a wizard can be a better healer then a witch simply because of available archetypes.

Better healer? When the typical wizard, unless built a bit differently than most, would get -1 channels per day
Correction: they get 1+INT channels. They lose specialty school and must take a familiar.

They use intelligence in place of wisdom for shaman abilities, not in place of charisma. And I am not entirely sure that most wizards would have 8 Cha, especually if the player knew they were building for this particular Archetype.

I will also note that I am actually inclined to agree with Sebastian, Hex Channeler is rather weak if built entirely around channeling, mainly because it becomes a one trick pony at the cost of so much, a negative channeling Hex Channeler could be a force to be reckoned with, but the only "Plan B" they hav is their spells, and being a prepared caster that means whatever spells they have prepared.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

ooooooo, good catch.

Lantern Lodge 5/5 * Venture-Lieutenant, South Dakota—Rapid City

Besides, to get that, you're losing a lot of really cool witch hexes.

I do agree that Hex Channeler should be legal, and hope this goes over well when the PTB get time to review this.

Shadow Lodge 2/5

A agree that Hex Channeler should be an option. It seems like you'd be giving up no less than a Hedge Witch would. My guess is that witch with cleric-mimicking spontaneous casting and emphatic healing bother people less than the idea of a witch. :(

I would love to play a Hex Channeler in the future for PFS. But for now, it seems that it is only a dream of a future that is not going to come any time soon.

4/5

The issue is that Walter was able to quickly come up with a channeling maxed negative channeler who was doing an insane amount of negative energy damage with his familiar as an effective bomb.

It would be a one trick pony, but it'd be a one trick pony who is a better negative channeler than the cleric is.

I think several of the archetypes were banned for essentially this reason, to keep classes from having their toes stepped on by archetypes of new classes. I for one am very glad to see that Primalist didn't make it into PFS, because it makes all Barbarians in PFS wonder why their slightly more attractive new clones have all of their fun toys as well.

Shadow Lodge

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The less chances to take the slumber hex, the better in my opinion anyway.

Shadow Lodge 2/5

Dylos wrote:
The less chances to take the slumber hex, the better in my opinion anyway.

I second that motion. I've been playing a Hedge Witch in PFS and although my Healing-Fu is mighty, I am better when supported by a full cleric to keep the party in tip-top shape in combat heavy scenarios. An arcane healer build does NOT a cleric make. :(

The Exchange

The archetype is bad, you can't take selective or improved channel until after your gain the ability. To make it better than a cleric you lose your class. It's not worth it. You also can't mix it with other archetypes that replace hexes or it just won't float.

A Grave walker hex channeler would be an awesome follower of Ghlaunder if there was a second replacement effect to make it scale right.

As one off hex choice it seems fine though. calling it an archetype seems silly..

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

And please do not forget, a witch that allows her familiar to enter melee, is just asking to lose all her spells.

Grand Lodge

David_Bross wrote:
Somebody call PETA

Why? Is Katniss looking for him? ;-)

The Exchange

KatPe will always be together.

Maybe this archetype could work if you plan to enter a prestige class. Feat based channel progression and spells and what ever goodies you were looking for.

Scarab Sages

Aristophanes wrote:
David_Bross wrote:
Somebody call PETA
Why? Is Katniss looking for him? ;-)

I see what you did, huehue.

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