| 42 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata. 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've been gandering through my Advanced Class Guide PDF, and it is a beautiful thing; I especially love the Hunter and the Skald.
That aside, there I stumbled on a particular issue addressed in the title of this thread...
First, here, in Rage Powers.
Rage Powers (Ex): At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, a skald learns a rage power (see pages 32–34 of the Core Rulebook) that affects the skald and any allies under the influence of his inspired rage...
Emphasis mine.
Now, notice the Spell Warrior archetype's Weapon Song...
Weapon Song (Su): A spell warrior gains the following raging song, allowing him to grant his ally’s weapons enhancement bonuses and special powers.
Enhance Weapons (Su): At 1st level, the spell warrior can grant a +1 enhancement bonus to the weapons (including ammunition) of allies within 60 feet. At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, this enhancement bonus increases by 1. The maximum bonus gained is based upon the number of weapons affected: +5 to one weapon, +4 to two weapons, +3 to three weapons, or +2 to four or more weapons. Fifty pieces of ammunition count as one weapon for this purpose. These bonuses can also be used to add any of the following weapon special abilities to the weapons enhanced by this ability: dancing, defending, distance, flaming, frost, ghost touch, keen, mighty cleaving, returning, shock, seeking, or speed. Adding these weapon special abilities consumes an amount of bonus equal to the special ability’s cost (see the Core Rulebook). These enhancement bonuses and special abilities overlap with any enhancements or special abilities the weapon already has, though duplicate special abilities do not stack. If an affected weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other special abilities can be.
The bonus and special abilities granted by this raging song are determined when the song begins, and cannot be changed until the raging song ends and another is begun. These bonuses apply to only one end of a double weapon. This ability replaces the inspired rage raging song.
Emphasis also mine.
I see no mention of using rage powers during this song, meaning the Spell Warrior Skald gains rage powers at level 3 and every 3 levels thereafter, but can never use them.
Am I missing something, or can the Spell Warrior actually just not use Rage Powers unless he takes levels in another class to use them in conjunction with that class's Rage feature?
Well, as this archetype has a capstone, it's pretty clear multi-classing isn't the intended solution. Candidate for errata, perhaps?
doting
Well passive rage powers would still function so it doesn't completely box out every option, but there's a number of these types of oversights in the ACG.
Well passive rage powers would still function so it doesn't completely box out every option, but there's a number of these types of oversights in the ACG.
Unless I'm mistaken, passive or not, the Skald's rage powers only apply during rage from another class or to their inspired rage raging song.
And potentially if an ally casts the rage spell on them.
Clearly, RAW, it doesn't work. I'm hoping it was intended to work, however.
If Rage Powers are dependant on Inspired Rage, and Weapon Song replaces Inspired Rage (thus taking its place in every aspect), wouldn't Rage Powers then be dependant on Weapon Song?
If you used the "Find and Replace" function in Word to have Inspired Rage changed to Weapon Song, it would replace the Inspired Rage located in the Rage Powers description. So it makes sense to me that you should be able to use Rage Powers through Weapon Song.
I guess it might just boil down to what you define as "replace".
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There is "this otherwise functions as Inspired Rage" on Weapon Song.
|
No there isn't, unless I'm going somewhat crazy in my old age.
Weapon Song (Su): A spell warrior gains the following raging song, allowing him to grant his ally’s weapons
enhancement bonuses and special powers.
Enhance Weapons (Su): At 1st level, the spell warrior can grant a +1 enhancement bonus to the weapons (including ammunition) of allies within 60 feet. At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, this enhancement bonus increases by 1.
The maximum bonus gained is based upon the number of weapons affected: +5 to one weapon, +4 to two weapons, +3 to three weapons, or +2 to four or more weapons. Fifty pieces of ammunition count as one weapon for this purpose.
These bonuses can also be used to add any of the following weapon special abilities to the weapons enhanced by this ability: dancing, defending, distance, flaming, frost, ghost touch, keen, mighty cleaving, returning, shock, seeking, or speed. Adding these weapon special abilities consumes an amount of bonus equal to the special ability’s cost (see Table 15–9: Melee Weapon Special Abilities on page 469 of the Core Rulebook). These enhancement bonuses and special abilities overlap with any enhancements or special abilities the weapon already has, though duplicate special abilities do not stack. If an affected weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other special abilities can be.
The bonus and special abilities granted by this raging song are determined when the song begins, and cannot be changed until the raging song ends and another is begun. These bonuses apply to only one end of a double weapon.
This ability replaces the inspired rage raging song.
What especially confused me is that it's got suggested rage powers at the bottom of the archetype.
|
Added to the growing list of people requesting this as a FAQ candidate. It's lack thereof will prevent me from building one, since lacking the rage powers makes it semi-worthless.
I'm feeling the same but.... I'm going to trust that Paizo will do the right thing, and that by the time I actually get my 3rd character, my Skald Spell Warrior, to level 3 and beyond, I'll be able to start using them. xD
Voting for Errata. :)
In PFS I think you are out of luck, but I can't imagine many GM's (not subject to those restrictions) not inserting a phrase similar to this:
There is "this otherwise functions as Inspired Rage" on Weapon Song.
It obviously needs it.
|
Clearly, RAW, it doesn't work. I'm hoping it was intended to work, however.
Don't you apply the specifc trumps general rule here.
The Skald has a general rule about rage powers and a specific performance.
But clearly the Spell Warrior Archtype (more specific) provides a list of complementary rage powers.
Thus Spell Warrior can use rage powers apparently against the normal requirements
-
just like Zen Archers can use bows to flurry with
Any resolution on this? It seems like a really sticky situation.
If you can use the rage powers during Weapon Song, it may be a little OP compared to a regular Skald. If you can't, then rage powers loose there effectiveness and the Spell Warrior seems weak compared to a regular Skald.
The Spell Warrior seems like a really fun archetype to play, so I think this needs to be cleared up.
It's been an eon, but I'm not sure why I typed that it said it functioned as Inspired Rage. Probably a typo or flatout mistake on my end.
It's been an eon, but I'm not sure why I typed that it said it functioned as Inspired Rage. Probably a typo or flatout mistake on my end.
I'm starting to think that sentence needs to be there.
It's been an eon, but I'm not sure why I typed that it said it functioned as Inspired Rage. Probably a typo or flatout mistake on my end.I'm starting to think that sentence needs to be there.
It probably shouuuld be. But then again, maybe not. Perhaps the Rage Powers are only for when you get to Rage via another Skald, Barbarian dip, etc.
I doubt that, though.
Perhaps the Rage Powers are only for when you get to Rage via another Skald, Barbarian dip, etc.
I doubt that, though.
Yes, it is hard for me to believe that that was what the author intended.
the problem i see of course with weapon song, is that it targets weapons and not people, i mean i could only sing to my own weapons if i wanted to.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
the problem i see of course with weapon song, is that it targets weapons and not people, i mean i could only sing to my own weapons if i wanted to.
Then maybe the weapon should get the rage power. JK. Maybe not.
...and another thing.
(Sorry, I feel like I'm nitpicking, but I like this archetype and I would like to play it.)
Is it me or does the name Spell Warrior seem a little nonspecific and obtuse? If I were to play one, I would want to call myself something different and a little more descriptive.
Any ideas?
It is a raging song as it states that it replaces the inspired rage raging song so rage powers will work.
It is a raging song as it states that it replaces the inspired rage raging song so rage powers will work.
No they will not. Rage powers are linked specifically to Inspired Rage, not Raging Song in general. Since Inspired Rage is replaced there is no way to grant any rage powers.
The archetype lists recommended rage powers.
The archetype lists recommended rage powers.
That suggests that from a RAI standpoint that they work. But RAW is what we are discussing. Since the two are at odds we have a FAQ request.
Yet another example of why the ACG is one of the worst written and edited products ever.
Any news on this? Do we need more FAQ requests?
Hmm, think I'll play a non archetyped Skald.
Official Rules Response
|
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've been gandering through my Advanced Class Guide PDF, and it is a beautiful thing; I especially love the Hunter and the Skald.
That aside, there I stumbled on a particular issue addressed in the title of this thread...
First, here, in Rage Powers.
** spoiler omitted **
Emphasis mine.
Now, notice the Spell Warrior archetype's Weapon Song...
** spoiler omitted **...
Answered in the upcoming errata. For now, a preview (exact wording subject to change):
The wielder of a weapon enhanced by this raging song counts as if she is under the affect of an inspired rage raging song for all purposes involving the skald’s rage powers.
I'm in love
Yay!
The wielder of a weapon enhanced by this raging song counts as if she is under the affect of an inspired rage raging song for all purposes involving the skald’s rage powers.
"My sword burns with the rage of my ancestors! Literally!"
Wild.
Maybe it's a grammatical error? Maybe it should read: A Skald learns a rage power that affects the skald, - And any allies under the influence of his inspired craze.
In this way, only the skald has thus benefit from the Rage powers.
Ok, so with the change a spell warrior can definitely share rage powers. But now the question is to allies that accept the song now get the penalties associated with inspire rage? Namely the restriction on Charisma, Dex and Int skills, concentration, etc.
You really should have made a new thread for this, but no. Weapon song only counts as inspired rage for "all purposes involving the skald's rage powers". Which means they also can't currently benefit from Skald's Vigor.
Which means they also can't currently benefit from Skald's Vigor.Skald's Vigor works with ANY raging song. Weapon Song is a raging song. Ergo, it works with Skald's Vigor.
It "activates", but being that the Weapon Song is granting you a +0 strength, it doesn't actually do anything. But that was a confusing example. I was more trying to point out that Weapon Song doesn't count as Inspired Rage for any other reason.
|
It "activates", but being that the Weapon Song is granting you a +0 strength, it doesn't actually do anything. But that was a confusing example. I was more trying to point out that Weapon Song doesn't count as Inspired Rage for any other reason.Which means they also can't currently benefit from Skald's Vigor.Skald's Vigor works with ANY raging song. Weapon Song is a raging song. Ergo, it works with Skald's Vigor.
If the Skald has a 10 STR then you would be correct. Skalds Vigor dos not just give Fast healing = to the rage bonus to STR, it gives Fast healing for the STR mod the skald currently has.
Str 16 inspire rage gives +2 so STR 18 would give the Skald 4 fast healing